Following on from angry Farmer

As a group we seem to be far less well organised than, for example, ramblers or cyclists. Other groups seem to have a far more effective approach to campaigning for their rights and have marketed themselves as more deserving of public money being spent on their hobby. We suck at that, despite having a hobby that is good for your health (well kind of!), environmentally healthy and which generates an enormous amount for the economy.
 
Everyone thinks that we're all loaded, & can just ride round a field all day. Or we can just load our horses & drive to somewhere. Imagine going to do a bit of schooling at your local public arena.
 
The BHS are doing quite a bit on access for riders. Log onto their website or contact your local official for more details. They also work with the appropriate local authorities and so know are being more joined up than you may first imagine.

I was a little sceptical until I attended my local BHS AGM and was pleased to find that progress was being made. As with anything, the more people get involved the greater the potential for change.
 
Two reasons, as booboos says in her post, as a group we are rubbish both the ramblers and cycle groups work very hard campaigning for routes etc unfortunately for us, cyclist seem to think its okay to hardcore all public bridleways?? We've just had an amazing canter around our place partly hardcored by the local council so it could be used for wheelchair access???? A group of us petitioned, went to the papers and they actually stopped half way through.

However, as far as access is concerned re farmers land, its probably because of attitudes like yours individuals that think they can ride where ever however that the majority of farmers hate horse riders! I keep my horse on a 3000 acre farm the liveries are allowed to ride on the land only when the ground is good (i.e. the farmer gets a massive subsidiary for left land and if we tore it up he wouldn't be all to chuffed and we are not talking about a few 100s we are talking ball park figure around £250,000) however, when I am allowed to go where ever in the summer the amount of people that I see on the land (that I have permission to ride on) is quite frankly ridiculous and I do tell them to leave!! I have also made friends with another two farmers whose land I am also allowed to ride over so you see if you ask nicely and don't presume you may get what you after!
 
I just cut a pasted this from the other thread. I should have put it here.


I just had to Google this,
the average farm size in the UK is 56ha. France is the same.


There's absolutely no issues with access here. I'd forgotten how closed the UK was. The attitude of farmers and large land owners in the UK are hardening all the time an restricting access more and more, putting pressure on the limited riding available. It's no wonder people end up in conflict. There's a tradition in the UK of 'git orf my laand' and stuff you I'm alright jack,that attitude is not encountered here. I think if there was a right to access the pressure would be reduced and people would become more educated to the ways of the farm. Too many people have no idea how a farm works. Everyone is lumped together be it walkers, cyclists, green laners, quads, trail bikes, carriage drivers and horse riders. If access where opened up the pressure would all but disappear. Myself I have 12ha with a river running through. If someone wants to fish in the river. All they have to do is tell me. I don't see the problem with using a farm track? If a farmer spoke to me the way the OP says he spoke to her, I have have give him verbal tirade to match his own. I certainly wouldn't be kissing his butt. Note the OP was on a track, not destroying the hard working farmers crops as is suggested. I find it bizarre that most people who answered this thread are standing by the very people who are prohibiting there own enjoyment and forcing them to use tarmac??

The main problem in the UK is that 0.6 per cent of the population own 50 per cent of rural land. If there's a chance to open more bridleways/green lanes, why wouldn't you try? The status quo obviously isn't working.
 
I know of a few "municipal" places to ride in London but these are long established and I can't see the likes being installed now. I used to ride years ago in a sand school on Tooting Bec common, and I think it's still there and I'm sure that was Council owned. Dulwich Park has a fabulous sand ride round part of the park. There's Hyde Park.. I'm sure there are others round London parks too.

But can you imagine the uphill struggle you'd get to have one put in nowadays?
 
Spot on miss bean, as an ex-farmers wife can I also suggest that when people are riding on a farmers land that they at least have the decency to acknowledge the farmer and his family if you encounter them. Not just ride past with you nose stuck in the air !
 
We have a bridleway that partly runs through a farmers field. It had a nice track with a bit of grass down the middle. Last year, when he ploughed, he did the track as well! His answer, when approached, was 'you still have access, just ride over the plough' Fair enough I suppose, but not easy on a recently started youngster, or for kids with ponies accompanied by a walking parent. And a nightmare when it's wet!
Now, he would be rightly peed off if we rode over his crops, so why is it ok for him to obliterate a path designated for our use, as long as he allows access, so remaining within the law?
 
debsg said:
We have a bridleway that partly runs through a farmers field. It had a nice track with a bit of grass down the middle. Last year, when he ploughed, he did the track as well! His answer, when approached, was 'you still have access, just ride over the plough' Fair enough I suppose, but not easy on a recently started youngster, or for kids with ponies accompanied by a walking parent. And a nightmare when it's wet!
Now, he would be rightly peed off if we rode over his crops, so why is it ok for him to obliterate a path designated for our use, as long as he allows access, so remaining within the law?
Click to expand...

That is illegal. Contact your local council. I understand that farmers only have a limited time to re-establish a right of way after its been ploughed.
 
debsg Im pretty certain that they aren't allowed to do that as this document suggests http://www.southglos.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/F60C60A1-A83D-4ECB-9116-CE9288A512D1/0/PTE070030.pdf.
That I would be complaining about if indeed it is countrywide applicable. I dont agree however with people disrespecting farmers land or trespassing on it repeatedly then trying to force a creation order on it for a bridleway! and I think that is what most people here took umbridge with. As others have said a smile, respect and bottle of the hard stuff goes a long way with most farmers :)
 
It is difficult to get funding but not impossible. After lobbying for 20 years in the local community and despite opposition from a very few but very loud and opinionated people - our local community achieved the purchase of 10 acres and upgrade of same (at a cost of 5 milluon AUD - 3 million for the land /2 million for the earth works, drainage, fencing and facilities. We achieved this

http://www.galstonequestrianclub.org.au

click on the gallery if you want to see the grounds and lovely showjumps/dressage equipment the club has.


Anyway - lots of tears and frustration, but worth it in the end.
 
One of the problems in the UK is the political, historical view of the riding community, as opposed to the walking and cycling one.
A case in point is the access in West Yorkshire. Rambling and cycling clubs were very much seen as 'grass roots working men'. Riders were perceived as toffs.
At the time many of our bridleways and the packhorse trails were downgraded to footpaths, the area was under the control of Urban Labour councils, who had little or no idea of how the more rural pennine area worked. Here we have many holdings of between 3 and 12 acres, which were used to keep a pony, horse or donkey, to transport fleeces and woven cloth to and from the farms and the Cloth Halls. This has translated to people keeping a pony or two and the holidings remain the same size, there have always been working people keeping horses on this land, but this was not recognized and it was a political act to strike at the 'establishment', while championing the hobbies of the 'working class' that led to the destruction of the pack horse and bridleway network. There is also some suggestion that this is why coarse fishing has never been attacked in the same way as hunting and shooting.
 
mtj said:
That is illegal. Contact your local council. I understand that farmers only have a limited time to re-establish a right of way after its been ploughed.
Click to expand...

Really? Same happens on a bridleway near me! The only reason it gets reinstated at all is because local walkers re-tread the path as they aim for the signposts in the middle of the field. In another place, it happens to a footpath and again, walkers re-tread the path (tripling their foot size, as it's clay :D ) Hmmm!

I think part of the problem is numbers. There are many more ramblers and cyclists than horse riders, even in Surrey (maybe especially so). It still makes me furious that cyclists have tracks put into the woods so they can shoot across paths at silly mph, whilst riders are expected to pay for a permit (FC land). Needless to say, I don't know anyone that pays.
 
OldNag said:
I know of a few "municipal" places to ride in London but these are long established and I can't see the likes being installed now. I used to ride years ago in a sand school on Tooting Bec common, and I think it's still there and I'm sure that was Council owned. Dulwich Park has a fabulous sand ride round part of the park. There's Hyde Park.. I'm sure there are others round London parks too.

But can you imagine the uphill struggle you'd get to have one put in nowadays?
Click to expand...

Earlsfield too, I think.

I'm kind of working on a grand theory that what the horse world needs is more projects like Stepney Bank, Ebony Horse Club (I just posted a thread on them called Horses are Good for Kids) and the Emile Faurie Foundation: showing horses as an asset to the community, helping with kids with problems, getting schools involved, letting non-horsey people understand what's going on, opening up stables.

In my (maybe optimistic) brain this is the key to better bridleways and facilities, to more road safety, to more TV coverage of horse sports, more business for riding schools...
 
Miss Bean said:
Two reasons, as booboos says in her post, as a group we are rubbish both the ramblers and cycle groups work very hard campaigning for routes etc unfortunately for us, cyclist seem to think its okay to hardcore all public bridleways?? We've just had an amazing canter around our place partly hardcored by the local council so it could be used for wheelchair access???? A group of us petitioned, went to the papers and they actually stopped half way through.

I don't think it is the cyclists actually. Most people who cycle on bridleways are on mountain bikes and prefer it to be a bit rough. I think you will find it is the councils doing their bit for access to all, ie wheelchair and electric buggy users and it has to be in good nick for them. I know what it is like as where I used to keep my horse all the river banks were hardcored, but equally, why should the disabled have to stay indoors? We have far more choices than they do, and we should be very grateful for that.
Click to expand...
 
SusannaF said:
Earlsfield too, I think.

I'm kind of working on a grand theory that what the horse world needs is more projects like Stepney Bank, Ebony Horse Club (I just posted a thread on them called Horses are Good for Kids) and the Emile Faurie Foundation: showing horses as an asset to the community, helping with kids with problems, getting schools involved, letting non-horsey people understand what's going on, opening up stables.

In my (maybe optimistic) brain this is the key to better bridleways and facilities, to more road safety, to more TV coverage of horse sports, more business for riding schools...
Click to expand...

I think you have something there.... I think what Ebony Horse Club are achieving is amazing and it woudl be great to see more of the same.
 
I'm both farmer and a horse rider and looked into putting grass tracks aside to ride on bt was told I'd have to get planning permission!!! According to the law if someone rides on land more that 28 times a year you need planning permission. This is not a viable option for farmers, who is gonna change the planning on their fields so part of it is used for riding and part is used for crops. If the law was better I think it would be easier to get farmer to give up w bit of land. Also it would be better if we could ride on the strips which farmer must leave, bt if you are found to have people ride on them they can fine you and removed all your subsidies.
 
One bridleway I use regually runs behind a gypsy camp and they tether stallions right across it, not good when you have a very flirty mare ! If you manage to get past that ok then we have to dodge the burnt out caravans they have for scrap, once past them we go through a farmyard. Its not my fault that the bridleway passes straight through the yard, I believe its been a right of way when the farm was built 100 years ago. The farmer if he sees you coming sticks a load of cows in the yard, so you either ride through the cows or return to the lane where the caravans and stallion is tethered. The farmer also likes to wire up the gates so you have to get off to unwrap it on both gates entering and exiting the yard, thankgod my mare is totally unfazed by the cows.
I always try to be polite and say hello to the farmer, and he us getting quite used to this woman who refuses to turn around. I even managed to get a smile off him last week, he rents the farm from a larger farmer who apparently as been taken to court lots of times for blocking lanes etc does not seem to deter him at all.
 
lazybee said:
I just cut a pasted this from the other thread. I should have put it here.


I just had to Google this,
the average farm size in the UK is 56ha. France is the same.


There's absolutely no issues with access here. I'd forgotten how closed the UK was. The attitude of farmers and large land owners in the UK are hardening all the time an restricting access more and more, putting pressure on the limited riding available. It's no wonder people end up in conflict. There's a tradition in the UK of 'git orf my laand' and stuff you I'm alright jack,that attitude is not encountered here. I think if there was a right to access the pressure would be reduced and people would become more educated to the ways of the farm. Too many people have no idea how a farm works. Everyone is lumped together be it walkers, cyclists, green laners, quads, trail bikes, carriage drivers and horse riders. If access where opened up the pressure would all but disappear. Myself I have 12ha with a river running through. If someone wants to fish in the river. All they have to do is tell me. I don't see the problem with using a farm track? If a farmer spoke to me the way the OP says he spoke to her, I have have give him verbal tirade to match his own. I certainly wouldn't be kissing his butt. Note the OP was on a track, not destroying the hard working farmers crops as is suggested. I find it bizarre that most people who answered this thread are standing by the very people who are prohibiting there own enjoyment and forcing them to use tarmac??

The main problem in the UK is that 0.6 per cent of the population own 50 per cent of rural land. If there's a chance to open more bridleways/green lanes, why wouldn't you try? The status quo obviously isn't working.
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree, it is crazy that horses have to stay on dangerous roads when surrounded by tracks and fields BUT you will find this is a very unpopular attitude on here.
 
It's unfair, but that's life. If anything I think all footpaths should be open to horses. If we use the unfair rule does that mean its ok for me to just turn up at local yards to use their schools for free when I please? After all, why should I school in a field when someone else had a lovely arena?
 
littlelegs said:
It's unfair, but that's life. If anything I think all footpaths should be open to horses. If we use the unfair rule does that mean its ok for me to just turn up at local yards to use their schools for free when I please? After all, why should I school in a field when someone else had a lovely arena?
Click to expand...

You know full well this post is about tracks and lanes, Why bother to post something so ridiculous?
 
Lazybee- i'm not sure why its ridiculous? The idea we should have a right to ride on someone else's property because we would benefit is exactly the same as my school analogy. As for the reference to footpaths I think it would be great if we had double tracks like they do for cycles/walkers in town centres. I haven't called your thoughts ridiculous or questioned your right to post them just because they aren't my own, think it would be pleasant if you did the same.
 
lazybee said:
You know full well this post is about tracks and lanes, Why bother to post something so ridiculous?
Click to expand...

It's not ridiculous if you wouldn't turn up to ride in a neighbouring yards arena without permission why on earth would you turn up in a farmers field without permission!

In both cases it's private land & your trespassing! Anyone caught riding across our fields would be told to get off, exactly as those with dogs off the lead are told to put them back on!

It's the attitude of "we have a right to roam" & "I can do as I please" that annoys people.
 
lazybee said:
You know full well this post is about tracks and lanes, Why bother to post something so ridiculous?
Click to expand...

I'll just post it again because I think you're missing my point. I do get people on my land now and again and I don't have a problem. As long as they don't damage fences or shoot the horses. What's the problem. I get quad bikes, trail bikes, runners passing through. It does me no harm whatsoever. By the same token I expect to do the same elsewhere. I suppose the laws are different here and I've got used to it. I couldn't imagine being confined to road work when surrounded by rural tracks.
 
Yes, obviously missing your point. I read the op as why don't riders get the same treatment as other groups, missed the bit where it specified only to discuss tracks & lanes. As for the fact your ok with people on your land, that's great. I'd mention that I'm ok with daughters pony in the garden on occasions, doesn't mean I expect my neighbours to let pony in theirs as well, but apologies, the subject is tracks & lanes only.
 
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