Following on from Confirmation affecting movement post

ktj1891

ktj1891

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So heres my guys feet. Sorry wasn't able to get sole pics I can tomorrow if required! Sorry for dirty feet!

CC please.

Right fore
734610_10151594928713799_1759594148_n_zpse51960d2.jpg

552929_10151594928893799_533183090_n_zps11ff2ec0.jpg


Left fore
216735_10151594929028799_1999755332_n_zps9b7cde98.jpg

581605_10151594946868799_1575889294_n_zps928eeab1.jpg


Left Hind
526504_10151594929463799_609501008_n_zps5e19f70c.jpg

575703_10151594929563799_1031160183_n_zps77b97799.jpg


Right Hind
558792_10151594929653799_1670440662_n_zps58546d19.jpg

604076_10151594929813799_755934561_n_zps902de87e.jpg
 
Not at all surprised he is dragging his toes. Regardless of any other issues these feet are not at all helpful

Hinds very bull nosed and under run. Bull noses are generally (not always) dietary. Toes are 'too long'. Inverted commas because these need to be grown down from the top not chopped off at the toe.

Fronts showing lots of little event lines. These usually indicate some sort of dietary issue. Probably hind gut getting upset. Right fore side view not clear, but left fore under run, long toe, collapsed heel. All these can be addressed with appropriate management and are not 'genetic'.
 
LucyPriory said:
Not at all surprised he is dragging his toes. Regardless of any other issues these feet are not at all helpful

Hinds very bull nosed and under run. Bull noses are generally (not always) dietary. Toes are 'too long'. Inverted commas because these need to be grown down from the top not chopped off at the toe.

Fronts showing lots of little event lines. These usually indicate some sort of dietary issue. Probably hind gut getting upset. Right fore side view not clear, but left fore under run, long toe, collapsed heel. All these can be addressed with appropriate management and are not 'genetic'.
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So what would your advice be to do?
I have spoken to vet about hindgut ulcers and she does not believe him to have any - he was scoped for gastric ulcers and completely clear.

I have only just changed farrier in past 6 months to a very well recommended one in my area- how should I approach the situation with my farrier?

I am thinking of possibly removing back shoes and seeing how he copes, would you suggest this is a good idea?

All advice welcome.
 
First you need to accept that the horse needs to grow out new, healthier hoof capsules. This will not be a quick fix.

In order to get the hooves healthier, you need to get the diet right. With my mare (had long, long toes and under-run heels) the key was cutting out as much sugar from her diet as possible. If molasses or moglo is on the ingredient list, she can't eat it.

Her shoes were pulled (I also changed Farrier as her problems were caused by bad shoeing) and when she was sound, I walked her out in hand. I built the distances up and then started doing short rides, before gradually increasing their distances.
 
Faracat said:
First you need to accept that the horse needs to grow out new, healthier hoof capsules. This will not be a quick fix.

In order to get the hooves healthier, you need to get the diet right. With my mare (had long, long toes and under-run heels) the key was cutting out as much sugar from her diet as possible. If molasses or moglo is on the ingredient list, she can't eat it.

Her shoes were pulled (I also changed Farrier as her problems were caused by bad shoeing) and when she was sound, I walked her out in hand. I built the distances up and then started doing short rides, before gradually increasing their distances.
Click to expand...

I have already changed his diet and hes always been on as low a sugar diet as possible as hes a poor doer.

He is on pure condition, linseed, milk thistle and glucosamine.
 
Diagram showing P3 (pedal/coffin bone). :)

laminitis2.jpg


ETA. I think that by counter rotated AG meant that instead of the tip of p3 moving down (as with laminintis) the tip has moved upwards.
 
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ktj1891 said:
Eh? Sorry for being ignorant but could you say that in simple terms?
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The hid foot is disproportionately long at the toe, compared to the heel length. The pedal bone should sit in the capsule at an angle of 5-8 degrees with the floor (tipped down at the toe and up at the heel) I think yours looks the other way round. Its what give it the bull nose effect.
 
A Guilding said:
The hid foot is disproportionately long at the toe, compared to the heel length. The pedal bone should sit in the capsule at an angle of 5-8 degrees with the floor (tipped down at the toe and up at the heel) I think yours looks the other way round. Its what give it the bull nose effect.
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Ohh...
Can anything be done to improve his feet, what would you all suggest?
 
Going barefoot would in the long run improve his hooves. I have an ex racer who had very similar feet, she also had a toe drag and would stumble behind all the time! she is now barefoot behind and her hooves have improved no end, she has rock crunching hooves on any ground and I have had no issues with her stumbling since. I'm hoping to take her fronts off as well in the next few months
 
ImmyS said:
Going barefoot would in the long run improve his hooves. I have an ex racer who had very similar feet, she also had a toe drag and would stumble behind all the time! she is now barefoot behind and her hooves have improved no end, she has rock crunching hooves on any ground and I have had no issues with her stumbling since. I'm hoping to take her fronts off as well in the next few months
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Interesting. How long did it take for her to become comfortable without shoes behind and what did you do work wise with her once they were removed?
 
ktj1891 said:
Interesting. How long did it take for her to become comfortable without shoes behind and what did you do work wise with her once they were removed?
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She was completely comfortable out in the field straight away and on Tarmac, for the first week or so I walked her out in hand every day for about 10/15 mins on smooth roads then starting riding, still shorter hacks and stuck to roads or grass. (Although tbh i think i was over cautious as she was pretty much sound from the word go). She had her shoes off in October, since about January she has been doing about 8 hours hacking a week mostly on roads and she's ever been unsound or footsore. At first she was a little uncomfortable on rocky ground but she now strides across such ground. Her general movement has improved a lot since as well.
 
ImmyS said:
She was completely comfortable out in the field straight away and on Tarmac, for the first week or so I walked her out in hand every day for about 10/15 mins on smooth roads then starting riding, still shorter hacks and stuck to roads or grass. (Although tbh i think i was over cautious as she was pretty much sound from the word go). She had her shoes off in October, since about January she has been doing about 8 hours hacking a week mostly on roads and she's ever been unsound or footsore. At first she was a little uncomfortable on rocky ground but she now strides across such ground. Her general movement has improved a lot since as well.
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Wow she sounds like she adjusted really well! I think when he is next due I will get hinds taken off!
 
ktj1891 said:
Wow she sounds like she adjusted really well! I think when he is next due I will get hinds taken off!
Click to expand...

I would go for it, at the end of the day if it really doesn't work out then you can pop the shoes back on, but after seeing my girls improvement I think it's well worth giving it a go :)
 
ktj1891 said:
Thanks for the diagram, Diagram B does look familiar to my guy, if I removed shoes would he naturally where his toes down and correct this issue himself?
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It would help. I cannot stress how easy this would be to treat, The foot needs trimming back at the toe bare foot or shod. The implications if left will be sore horse in hocks, stifles and back. If I shod that you would notice the back end improve straight away.
 
A Guilding said:
It would help. I cannot stress how easy this would be to treat, The foot needs trimming back at the toe bare foot or shod. The implications if left will be sore horse in hocks, stifles and back. If I shod that you would notice the back end improve straight away.
Click to expand...

I can't tell my farrier what to do though in that sense can I? Surely my farrier should know and be working to improve them for me?
 
Those feet are horrendous. Your farrier is letting you down badly.The counter rotation can be treated either by cutting down the toe if there is enough height in it or by fitting wedges, both of which will free the horse's back. But in my experience they can only be properly cured by rebuilding the heel height internally and the only way I know how to do that is to take off the shoes and work the horse while feeding it a perfect diet.
 
ktj1891 said:
I wrote above his diet. I think that is pretty good? Pure condition and linseed.
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Whether his diet is good depends on his individual needs. Does Pure Condition have molasses or molglo in it? He may be sensitive to sugars in hay/haylage and need it soaked. He may need his access to grass restricted quite severely.

The problem is that with him shod, you will not know. One of the great things about keeping horses barefoot is that they let you know when their diet is wrong by feeling the stones they tread on. When that happens, you know it's time to get them off the daytime grass.
 
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