Following on from 'Have We Got it Wrong' thread

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Alexa123

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This thread got a big response and I learnt a lot. I'm sure it's run its course (for now), but if anyone has the time or inclination, how would all our musings on the pain/behaviour debate apply to the following case study (not my horse btw):
• 5 yr old TB backed before purchase but not lunged (never raced?)
• Green but straightforward to ride at the viewing
• Mounted 2 weeks after purchase and being lunged - panicked/exploded
• Back to basics with backing principles for 3 weeks
• Ridden and didn’t put a foot wrong for 3 days
• Day 4 – exploded.
 
what happened on day 3. what was the horse doing when it exploded?

has it been vetted? what kind of turnout & feed?
 
It's a horse someone was telling me about, I haven't seen it in action. (They wanted me to consider taking it on but I walked away because it's the inconsistent ones that worry me the most). If most horses are pain-free (which was the starting point of the thread) then why aren't the difficult ones difficult ALL the time when ridden by the same rider in the same environment ?
 
I would think it was probably doped when it was tried before they got it!

I would always investigate pain before trying to pass the poor thing on to someone else!

My friend has recently bought an ex racer, she has a lovely nature but my friend said she had a paddy when she rode, dropped to the floor and rolled on my friend, knocking her out! I asked her to investigate but for a while she said her friend said she was just being naughty because she was being made to stand still!! I told her no horse behaves like that for the fun of it!

After a few weeks she started investigating, she's just got back from having her ligaments done in both back legs and has got kissing spine!!
 
Could be either. I really think you'd have to see it for yourself, see how the horse was handled/ridden, etc., as with the best will in the world descriptions of scenarios are still very, very subjective and often we don't appreciate just how much our behaviour affects the horse's behaviour and we are very bad at analysing exactly what we are doing most of the time :) Many people can be unaware of the very smalls signs of anxiety/stress a horse displays, then the horse explodes/panics and it seems like it has come out of nowhere, when really the signs were there all along, but just not being noticed. So for all intents and purpose, from the rider/handlers point of view, the horse was totally fine, then the behaviour just happened, but someone on the outside looking in, may have been able to see the build up to the explosion/panic. Of course, if it really was out of nowhere then it could point to pain and it totally makes sense to investigate this.

As for 'If most horses are pain-free why aren't the difficult ones difficult ALL the time when ridden by the same rider in the same environment', I don't think anything is ever really the same in the world of horses :) However much you think it is the same, horses are experts at detail, they notice everything, they have too, it's what's kept them alive for millions of years. Humans really aren't great at detail, we may think a situation is the same each day, but from the horse's point of view, things could smell/look different, a sparrow may have farted, the light could be different in the arena, something happened in the field/stable before you rode them that changed their adrenaline levels, the human may be a bit grumpy, happy, stiff, etc., etc., ad infinitum! We have to work with the horse we have on the day and most days it'll be a different horse to the one we had the day before and the day before that, especially in the early days of training :)
 
the trigger effect seems to affect a lot of horses i think.
like if you wake late, then drop your coffee cup and it burnt you and smashes, then you miss your bus, then your late for work, then your boss gives out to you, and then a collegue asks you a simple question and you just snap and get narky with them. Its the cumulation of a lot of small stuff that just builds up.

I think with new horses you have to be aware of that happening too. like they mightn't sleep properly in a new place, could be scared of a noise on the yard, be bullied in the field, slightly sore from work, arena surface is deep, and then a new rider gets on and does something (can be small like unbalancing them around a corner) and the horse just explodes.

They rarely just explode out of nowhere unless its a neuro issue, there's usually signs.
 
Following on from what paddi22 and I are saying is the analogy of the worry cup, i.e. each horse can only handle a cup full of worry before it over fills and when it spills the horse can no longer cope and the horse will be flipped into escape or fight mode. It helps to explain things like spooking, bolting, exploding, etc., that seem to 'happen out of nowhere'. It's explained really nicely in this article, I hope you can see it;

https://www.facebook.com/ApplewayPerformanceHorses/posts/1028329703893400
 
I would be looking at tack fit to strt with, a newly backed horse could well panic at the saddle shifting slightly, I would also look aat everything the horse has eaten, including if random people may have fed it. Many years ago the Old Appy turned into a bronco on the halter coming in at tea time, we later discovered an egg shaped and sized lump on her poll, she had banged it on a low stone lintel when some strange children had come onto the yard shreiking and waving their arms about, took about a month for her to come right. We also have problems with random walkers throwing cattle creep feed into our youngsters, it is like rocket fuel and makes the current young appy terribly anxious
 
Also depends on what 'exploded' is - my mare has a tendency occasionally to stamp her feet and Buck a bit .. Someone who saw it described what I see as a bit of a temper tantrum as an explosion...
 
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