following on from high knees jumping photos.. getting your horse to lift his legs up!

woodlandswow

woodlandswow

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i know most of them were bloopers.. while other just have serious talent and scope ;) , when it comes to xc and hunting (loves a couple of hedges) my grey bouncing thing,... lives up to his name.. and bounces over them.. (with a lot of style thanks very much :p:rolleyes:)
however when he sees poles, he knows they role off and dangles or just knocks them..he is good at competitions but really bad at home..
i use heavy wooden poles at home and it is still like he doesnt respect them, even jumping out of a quality canter. -
maybe its the lack of colour or respect..
any tips on how to lift those legs up higher??:confused:
thanks :)
 
a grid of high X cross poles. the middles don't have to be that high, but the V above them makes a difference. slightly shortish or perfect distances.
i knew someone who evented a casual one and in desperation loose jumped her horse down grids of fixed SJs. he learnt, very fast... and turned into a clear round machine.
i used to train with someone who'd spent a while with Paul Schockemohle. she had perfect timing for rapping a horse... she'd had her wrist broken learning perfect timing. it's not for everyone, it's chuffing terrifying riding down to a SJ knowing someone's going to chuck a pole up at the horse's legs, and i do NOT advocate it being done by anyone other than a real expert (which she was) but it made a huge difference to that one casual horse, only had to be done about once a year, the effect lasted a very long time...
a 1" square metal 'pole' balanced on a normal SJ pole. horse hits it, it either falls with a huge unexpected CLANG, or the noise of metal-on-metal from the horse's shoes tapping it gives the horse a surprise. i've never had 1 of these metal mini-poles but they are very effective.
SJ's trick - mini metal pole as above, a cup higher than the wooden pole. personally i think that's a nasty trick, just about as bad as rapping (which always made me feel very guilty... BUT if it makes a casual horse much more careful for a whole year... i don't know... )
just a few ideas anyway.
*dons flak jacket*
 
Have you been on the gin at lunch time?

Have you just advocated rapping on a forum full of horse lovers?

OMG you will need more than a flak jacket. I would say full on armoured people carrier!!
 
it must've been the voddie babies last night still having an effect.
hey, i don't think it was a full-on advocation... ;) ;) but, anyone who knows anything much about competing to a decent level who kids themselves that such things don't happen in certain yards to certain horses... *shrugs*
also, having racked my brains more while feeding just now, this trainer had actually broken her wrist twice learning the perfect timing. that's a very tough lesson. i like my wrists just as they are thanks so i wouldn't ever try it, or recommend it to anyone who doesn't have someone as experienced as this trainer was...
 
i've called for an Abrams Mk2, it's my favourite tank, should do the job.

btw, in penance: sure fire way of telling a horse who has been 'rapped' more than once in a VERY blue moon... if anyone's standing near the practice jump, horse won't go to it. they do tell you, if you listen and watch...
 
kerilli said:
i've called for an Abrams Mk2, it's my favourite tank, should do the job.

btw, in penance: sure fire way of telling a horse who has been 'rapped' more than once in a VERY blue moon... if anyone's standing near the practice jump, horse won't go to it. they do tell you, if you listen and watch...
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I had one of these, he came from Ireland, if anyone moved near the practise jump as I approached he turned on his back legs and was off in the opposite direction, the first time it happened I got a bloody nose from the impact, he never got over it, was careful generally but not very brave.
 
be positive said:
I had one of these, he came from Ireland, if anyone moved near the practise jump as I approached he turned on his back legs and was off in the opposite direction, the first time it happened I got a bloody nose from the impact, he never got over it, was careful generally but not very brave.
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eeek. poor boy and poor you. :( :( :( yes, they are SMART and they learn fast that they daren't go near a fence with a person close, just in case. it can easily ruin a horse's jumping confidence for life. i only let this (v v v experienced) trainer rap my horse twice, in about 5 years. it had a very long-lasting effect both times... but, as i've said up there, it really is best left to absolute experts, and used incredibly judiciously...
 
How about a horse thats terrified of touching a pole? Genuinley curious as yellow pony is very neat in front even when burried right at the bottom of a fence so will contort him self over it without touching it and if he does it really freaks him out (as in he runs and wobbles and is then very likely to stop at the next one even after you have got the canter back). He also has issues with fence judges that sit next to the fence or another in close proximity but is fine with those in cars although is better now he is a little more foucsed on the job in hand.
 
Back to the OPs original question;) I think there are a few things that may help without resorting to more drastic action, gridwork will be the best way to get him more careful, you need someone really good to set them up, just a slightly shorter stride or wider spread may may all the difference, the eyes on the ground need to be able to make tweaks as and when required.

I would not jump a careless horse alone as you need to get off to put fences up which breaks the rhythm and concentration just when you really need it. Something spooky under a fence can help get them looking or a rug over the rails, a pole across the top rails of an oxer is great for getting them up more, useful at the end of a grid.

When they do make an effort, praise can give them a sense of achievement, they can learn to take pride in themselves and try harder.
 
Rapping is a dirty trick and never has a place in my opinion. Heavy poles well wedged into heavy wings, jumping with no boots and doing a lot of grids are much better ways of getting a horse to respect poles are much better options. Square poles and planks are also good for training with.
 
Putting slanting poles up to a fence (like you would for something that runs out but put them right together so the ends form a point in the centre of the fence) can help a horse pick up.

For parallells if you balance a pole on top diagonally across the two poles also gives them something else 'to look at' and can encourage them to get a bit more up in the air.

I would be VERY wary about rapping. Have no experience of it myself and havent had the inclination to ever do it although I guess if it makes the difference between somersaulting over a xc fence and having one learn it has to pick its legs up then I guess like Kerilli says in VERY VERY experienced hands it could well be a last resort.

I know of an ex showjumper who once told me they had an electric fence battery pack for occasional use in their arena - I will leave it to your imagination as to how it was used - disgusting!!!!! (and you can bet your bottom dollar I told them so!!!)
 
georgie, have also known electric to be used. Not nice, but actually least the horse has the choice to jump what is infront of it, rapping punishes them even if they would have otherwise cleared it!
 
I can't stand rapping, some can take it, some can't, but you don't find out til you do it and you have the embarrassing moment in the collecting ring where you have to move all the other grooms out of the way so your horse will go near the fence.

If I want to give a casual horse a 'touch' I will ride it down a grid with a very tight distance at the end, to a square oxer with the ground poles ever so slightly false (so just underneath the fence).

Or I will set up a stile with one of those jump block thingies as a false groundline and either a heavy pole or a thin clangy pole, like what they reinforce concrete with (light but noisy) and gallop on down to it and let the horse make its own mistake.

Not to be over-done, and if your horse is a simply not athletic rather than careless, you'll just end up frightening it and it won't jump at all.
 
georgiegirl said:
I would be VERY wary about rapping. Have no experience of it myself and havent had the inclination to ever do it although I guess if it makes the difference between somersaulting over a xc fence and having one learn it has to pick its legs up then I guess like Kerilli says in VERY VERY experienced hands it could well be a last resort.

I know of an ex showjumper who once told me they had an electric fence battery pack for occasional use in their arena - I will leave it to your imagination as to how it was used - disgusting!!!!! (and you can bet your bottom dollar I told them so!!!)
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yep, have heard of electrified wire. chuffing ridiculous. could put a horse off jumping for life. and let's not even go there with things inside boots, on legs, on poles, etc...
horses who are genuinely 'allergic to wood' as well as being brave enough to jump a decent track are pretty rare.

totally agree about rapping. i hope i gave enough warnings. it is usually very inadvisable, to say the least. IF done at all, it needs to be done by an EXPERT (a real one, not a self-proclaimed one!) with impeccable timing and judgement, in very specific circumstances, very very occasionally (no more than once a year or two, seriously), with the provisos that:
you might frighten the horse off jumping for life.
if you do it more often than that, the horse WILL tell everyone else in a warm-up that it has been rapped... (i've seen this, it's unmistakeable)
you might break the trainer's wrist(s)
you might put horse and rider on the floor...
 
hummm...this all makes sense...went to see a horse in Ireland last year..jumped out of his skin all round the arena but more in a kind of terrified-out-of-his-skin way...he lifted his legs up so high they were practically stuck to his belly...
'Careful jumper ain't he?' the woman trilled...as she neatly dodged away from each fence as he approached...
'Mmm' I muttered unenthusiastically, thinking 'Rapped...' :(
So it obviously works, but that was one unhappy horse who didn't find a home that day at least...
 
thanks all very much for replys-- forgot i'd posted!

thanks for the rapping techique kerilli - im going out to practice now with my mum :rolleyes:;) (big "jokes" for anyone who didnt get that!)
i would never try unless with a pro - i would be intrested to see how it works.. however.. dont worry pony lovers.. i have no lessons planned so wont be happening anytime soon :cool:

i will try a grid of high x poles, and alsso spooky jumps - however i think this might have a nil effect as a casual filler at ours is a dis used wheelbarrow..

i have also been told - (by a pro ;)) to take his front boots off while jumping or tendon boots so it hurts..
to say he doesnt care completly is not fair on him - he only tries really hard if he gets in deep, so maybe it is my striding..
lots of grid work lessons coming up in the summer me thinks :)

talking of "different" techniques my old (ahem, irish) pony - a very consistent WHP in his day would never touch poles, and when he did would bolt uncontrolably round the menage, due to him previously being hit 20 times in the air everytime he touched a pole :(
could try that one ;):D

at least i have some things to play with now.. (my dad is getting the electric fence out...)
it is just very fustrating as he would go double clear every time if it wasnt for the SJ!
 
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Scaffolding poles would make good heavy metal poles... but if using these I would suggest putting the yellow plastic "mushrooms" on the end.
 
A simple trot pole exercise can help with some horses, works wonders with mine but he is VERY brave. Trot in over a pole to an upright, tight distance. The upright keeps going up and up and up until he's trotting to 1.45m ish, he'll then tend to misjudge it by running in slightly too keen, missing at the pole and takes out the upright. Come again and he then generally goes skywards! The key is that the pole takes away my job, I don't get tempted to try and hold him off the fence, so I can totally leave him alone and the lesson is learnt that it's his job to jump the fence, not mine.

The upright is then popped down and I have his respect for the fences.

We do the same thing over a parallel, making it wider as well as bigger. Once he has got it wrong and learnt the lesson it is then popped down.

BUT...I don't think this would work with a horse that wasn't brimming with confidence like he is. He gets a bit blase about the fences because he has the scope. If they are limited in scope then I would use a grid set up as mentioned above with high cross poles, canter poles in between and tightish distances.

ETA - I think the key to both exercises is being able to leave the horse alone to make mistakes and learn from them without the interference of the rider. If the rider interferes, I don't think the horses learn anything.
 
Saratoga said:
A simple trot pole exercise can help with some horses, works wonders with mine but he is VERY brave. Trot in over a pole to an upright, tight distance. The upright keeps going up and up and up until he's trotting to 1.45m ish, he'll then tend to misjudge it by running in slightly too keen, missing at the pole and takes out the upright. Come again and he then generally goes skywards! The key is that the pole takes away my job, I don't get tempted to try and hold him off the fence, so I can totally leave him alone and the lesson is learnt that it's his job to jump the fence, not mine.

The upright is then popped down and I have his respect for the fences.

We do the same thing over a parallel, making it wider as well as bigger. Once he has got it wrong and learnt the lesson it is then popped down.

BUT...I don't think this would work with a horse that wasn't brimming with confidence like he is. He gets a bit blase about the fences because he has the scope. If they are limited in scope then I would use a grid set up as mentioned above with high cross poles, canter poles in between and tightish distances.

ETA - I think the key to both exercises is being able to leave the horse alone to make mistakes and learn from them without the interference of the rider. If the rider interferes, I don't think the horses learn anything.
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thanks for that.. i did similar with my old pony - 14hh.. we stopped when it got to the top of the wings.. (the smaller angled ones.. 1.40 ish:o)
i might try it smaller but wouldnt want to knock his confidence :)
 
i'd be very very cautious of the idea of using a heavy metal scaffolding pole, you are asking for a huge knee if the horse hits it. the metal 1" square pole i'm talking about it aluminium, maybe it's a HighJump pole for athletes or something? it weighs very little, if they hit it it makes a noise but not much more...

the fact that you say he only really tries when he gets in deep is interesting. i had a good horse who, a good trainer noticed, did less the more i did. the secret with him was to do absolutely as little as possible on the way to the fence (harder than it sounds), soften with the hands early, say "the ball's in your court, deal with it" (just supporting with leg but doing as little as pos with the hand) once he'd clocked the fence. it really worked and that trainer turned that horse from 'a bit casual' to 'usually clear unless i really mucked it up'...
 
^^ This. I have a very bold Irish pony who never stops, but never jumped a clear round Show Jumping. Never had a fault XC and is a marvelous hunter.

I was doing too much, trying to ride a stride and so he was leaving it up to me. I now just sit quietly, keep my leg around him and let him sort himself out. My job is done three strides from the fence, I've got him there and it's then his job to get us over it. Lots and lots Grid work has really helped him too. Oh and bigger jumps :rolleyes:

Countless people suggested rapping and metal poles. Not my cup of tea.
 
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