Following on from new BD hat rule....Top hat and tails eventing

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Saratoga

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So, following on from BD banning safety hats below PSG level, if BE follow suit we can wave bye bye to beaglers at all levels.

And does that mean the end of top hat and tails at International events??
 
It will all depend on the FEI. As SC mentioned on the other thread - BD is following FEI and BE followed FEI as novice is same as 1*.

I hope top hat and tails will remain.
 
Do you think if the rules change tails will stay, but worn with safety hats instead of top hats? Or do you think tail coats will also disappear?
 
Dressage and eventing are huge sports within FEI I cannot see them getting rid of tails. I personally cannot see them getting rid of top hats because the majority of the continent rides without a hat including sjers. They are doing a pander to safety and this is a good half way house.
 
But if FEI are getting rid of beaglers for dressage, won't they get rid of top hats for eventing? It's basically the same thing?
 
Do you wear beaglers for FEI? I would have thought it would be all top hat at dressage?

The FEI have not got rid of them just made a stipulation that strapped hats need to be worn in young riders and young horse classes. So BD has followed this as the 6yo class is equivelent of Adv Med so hence no beaglers below that level.

The rules at FEI eventing regarding hats has never changed. Its BE who changed the rules but adapted it so it would sit comfortably with FEI rules hence why novice is fine.
 
i hope they'll keep the tails but go with safety helmets. a couple of U.S. riders wore theirs with their tails at Burghley and they looked absolutely great.
i'm with millitiger, and my reasons are best explained by watching this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awJDYBhBPzk

tails are lovely, and getting to wear them is a bit of a rite of passage, a badge of honour, or whatever, but the 'pretty hat that's less protective than the box it came in'... no thanks.
 
would there not be a gap in the market to design a safety top hat, with chin strap? flesh coloured are barely noticeable IMO
Keeping the overall look, but being safer...
 
ahh, i thought i'd seen something, but then wondered whether i'd been dreaming :rolleyes:
I agree though it would be interesting to see what they'd look like on...
 
millitiger said:
Because I think it is the correct way to go by enforcing safety helmets.

I have nothing against the tails part (obviously ;)) but don't agree with beaglers or top hats at competitions :)
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The statistics for head injury and death in dressage competitions in this country is 0. I think top hats should stay and I also think it should be personal choice. Advanced riders have never dictated hat rules to prelim riders so why should the reverse be true? I appreciate that you are entitled to an opinion but so are people who would rather have personal choice. Having ridden for 45 years I have a made to measure Patey, a top hat and a crash hat. I have ridden all 3 disciplines and like to think I am capable of deciding to wear a crash hat when I hack out, ride a young horse or ride an unknown clients horse. It should be remembered that 99% of accidents happen at home so riders should pay more attention to those figures.
 
nononsense said:
The statistics for head injury and death in dressage competitions in this country is 0. I think top hats should stay and I also think it should be personal choice. Advanced riders have never dictated hat rules to prelim riders so why should the reverse be true? I appreciate that you are entitled to an opinion but so are people who would rather have personal choice. Having ridden for 45 years I have a made to measure Patey, a top hat and a crash hat. I have ridden all 3 disciplines and like to think I am capable of deciding to wear a crash hat when I hack out, ride a young horse or ride an unknown clients horse. It should be remembered that 99% of accidents happen at home so riders should pay more attention to those figures.
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It is not about personal choice though, it is about abiding by the rules set by the sporting body.

I would like to ride in full waterproofs when it is peeing down with rain at a show but I can't as it is against the rules- your personal choice is to ride at the competition, NOT to decide what you can and cannot wear.

If the rule comes in about harnessed hats being compulsory (which I hope it does) your personal choice will be limited to whether you wish to compete or not- the same way my choice is whether to ride at a show and get soaked to the skin or stay at home in my waterproofs!

And as for the statistics about riders dying while competing- do we really have to wait for someone to die before people will put safety before fashion?
 
nononsense said:
The statistics for head injury and death in dressage competitions in this country is 0.
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That statement reminds me of all the times people campaign for a pedestrian crossing to be put in, council's prevaricate and then someone dies and a crossing is put in. Saying someone hasn't died/had a head injury yet isn't really a terribly good argument for not enforcing a rule which makes a known dangerous situation safer.

Do you have a link to all the stats please which lets you know that there has never been a death/head injury as a result of a dressage comp? I know there have in showing, which rarely leaves the ground, and I'd be interested to see where all the stats for all the shows all over the country that run dressage have been collated. I don't think the ones I've been involved in organising have sent any off anywhere when someone's had a fall, and I'd like to know where I should be sending the data :)
 
Agree with the views expressed by kerilli and millitiger - they have expressed them more eloquently than I can!

The whole 'personal choice' reason that is wheeled out when ever anyone dares to suggest that we should all take a bit of care of ourselves is b****x. You have the personal choice - you can do what you want. The problem is that your personal choice isn't just yours to make - the choice comes down to whoever will be wiping your bottom and feeding you baby food for the rest of your years. They get no choice in the whole sorry thing.
 
ThePony said:
Agree with the views expressed by kerilli and millitiger - they have expressed them more eloquently than I can!

The whole 'personal choice' reason that is wheeled out when ever anyone dares to suggest that we should all take a bit of care of ourselves is b****x. You have the personal choice - you can do what you want. The problem is that your personal choice isn't just yours to make - the choice comes down to whoever will be wiping your bottom and feeding you baby food for the rest of your years. They get no choice in the whole sorry thing.
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Really, is there any need to become offensive! Its just an opinion which differs from yours and thereby lies the tail! Of course we will abide by the rules but the top hat is still allowed, read the rules. And as for others managing a paralysed body which is always truly tragic and not always from head injury, ie. Christopher Reed have a little compassion because even with a crash helmet this could be any of us. Spinal injuries in equestrianism are far more common, do you suggest we all ride in back protectors every day? If the sport has become so dangerous that all this protection is needed then I suggest it is the wrong sport to be involved in.
As for statistics, do what my friend did, and phone all the dressage competition centers and ask for the numbers in their accident books! If you cannot debate with out becoming rude please do not answer. Thank you!
 
nononsense said:
As for statistics, do what my friend did, and phone all the dressage competition centers and ask for the numbers in their accident books! If you cannot debate with out becoming rude please do not answer. Thank you!
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I didn't think I was rude, I wasn't trying to be, sorry :confused:

Your friend hasn't got the full picture then - because there are all the local shows, RC shows, everything not held at a competition centre to add in too. I suppose you could trawl through all of those too, but to what end? It won't make riding without a hat any safer....
 
nononsense said:
Really, is there any need to become offensive! Its just an opinion which differs from yours and thereby lies the tail! Of course we will abide by the rules but the top hat is still allowed, read the rules. And as for others managing a paralysed body which is always truly tragic and not always from head injury, ie. Christopher Reed have a little compassion because even with a crash helmet this could be any of us. Spinal injuries in equestrianism are far more common, do you suggest we all ride in back protectors every day? If the sport has become so dangerous that all this protection is needed then I suggest it is the wrong sport to be involved in.
As for statistics, do what my friend did, and phone all the dressage competition centers and ask for the numbers in their accident books! If you cannot debate with out becoming rude please do not answer. Thank you!
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Didn't mean to be offensive - just something that I find very important, so it is hard to be all happy fluffy when debating it!

Not arguing with the rules at all - you do as they instruct. But I am glad they are bringing in more rules regarding wearing harnessed hats - and I would be happy to see them extended.
 
nononsense said:
As for statistics, do what my friend did, and phone all the dressage competition centers and ask for the numbers in their accident books! If you cannot debate with out becoming rude please do not answer. Thank you!
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Well, she obviously didn't ring up my local RC - someone fell off and landed on their head stressaging last year... It's a good job they were wearing a proper hat, having seen a beagler come flying off someone's head (before she hit the floor) the other week at showing.

Really, statistics and studies can be twisted to show whatever someone wants them to show. I am sure there was once a study done (complete with facts and figures that they had obtained) that showed that wearing a parachute when skydiving increased the risk of dying... When we all know that's ridiculous - so not all studies are going to be 'right' even if they are correct according to the sample they've used...


ETA: on the original topic - I don't know if the FEI will change the rules. If they do, then I'll just go along with it if I ever do a CCI/CIC... Riding up the centre line with a tophat on would be nice, but even if the rules weren't changed I'd still warm up in a 'proper' hat and swap it before going in - just because you never know if anyone else is going to lose control in the warm up and crash into you/spook your horse or something similar... And in a few years time they might have more toppers that meet safety requirements and don't look weird!
 
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One of the most serious accidents I have ever had to deal with as the organiser of a competition happened at a club dressage event where a rider was injured after her young but sensible horse bucked her in to the middle of the following week.
This summer I enfored the RC hat rule on to one of the best riders in the county who turned up to an evening dressage with a beagler (suitable for foot beagling only) on her head. She was very polite about complying, & after we'd picked her up of the
ground & she'd recovered from the shock of a very bad fall she thanked me profusely - we also had to find someone to drive her lorry home as she was so shaken up. Had she still been wearing the Beagler she would have been a lot worse than slightly shaken up.
 
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