Following on from nightmare start to BE season...

[Austen123]

Hi All,

Feeling very apprehensive at the moment. For those who have read my previous posts know i had a nightmare start to my BE season with some explosive behaviour from Podge at Goring Heath. subsequently i got medically suspended with two entries at Larkhill and AUW. Dan Jocelyn rode him at AUW and got a DC and a sub 30 DR. however he did say he felt like he was going to get bucked off at any moment... great!

I came up with a plan after talking with Dan and i am going to lunge him in a suitable place at the event, take him back to the trailer and then get on the DR warm up. i am equipped with the science supplements pro kalm and will feed him the loading amount powder the night before and then will give him a syringe an hour before peak time (when i get on for warm up). depending on behaviour the science supplement people said i can give a "top up" half a syringe for the xc warm up if time allows.

HOWEVER, during this time i contacted his old rider (who also was a pro and rode for south africa!) and i asked her what he was like in warm ups and she confirmed that he was a handful.." It was worse when there was more atmosphere and lots of horses. I always found the less I did on him, the better. If you are brave enough, I would lunge him away from the warmup and then literally get on and go in. Otherwise, don’t do any canter in your warm up going into dressage and do loads and loads and loads of walk trot transitions and literally dull him down if that makes sense? I always found he was his best behaved the first few minutes of getting on so you need to make the most of those ".

Note, when i bought him just over a year ago they confirmed that i could easily take him out on own to events etc which is half true. when i take him purely SJ or DR he is a saint. and even just to HT's his behaviour is good and no where near as explosive. they just left out the part that he was like sitting on a bomb when you go eventing.

Feeling very teary and extremely nervous about my event at Broadway this weekend. i have been having weekly lessons with Dan and it has been great , but then Podge is always great in lessons! unfortunately, he is at badminton this weekend otherwise i would of paid him to come and coach me.

Chocolate and coffee for those who have read this far and let me get this off my chest.

Obligatory pictures:-

 

[BenvardenRach2]

He is stunning , best of luck for this weekend.
I hope you both come home safe & enjoy it

GOOD LUCK!!! x

 

[NA85ISH]

have you tried Kalms (people Kalms), my friend swears by them and gives her horse one prior to going out competing, one given an hour or so before and it totally takes the edge off him, he is a totally different horse

 

[Floxie]

The regular ones do contain valerian though so I suspect you might want to bear that in mind.

 

[SEL]

literally get on and go in. Otherwise, don’t do any canter in your warm up going into dressage and do loads and loads and loads of walk trot transitions and literally dull him down if that makes sense? I always found he was his best behaved the first few minutes of getting on so you need to make the most of those ".

I think this is very sane advice and worth trying. Given what happened last time I would probably do exactly what the old rider suggests - get on, go and do the dressage (forget scores, aim for return of confidence!) and see if he settles.

Have you used ProKalm before? A friend has a TB who can throw some rather extreme shapes and the recommended dose made him so sleepy he couldn't actually jump! Perhaps a shot of gin for the human pre-ride as well?

 

[Austen123]

have you tried Kalms (people Kalms), my friend swears by them and gives her horse one prior to going out competing, one given an hour or so before and it totally takes the edge off him, he is a totally different horse

i was going to take some Kalms for myself as i wanted to reduce any nervous energy being transferred to him! however will look at ingredients and give one to him too

 

[Merrymoles]

Nothing to add except to say that he is lovely and looks in superb shape. Good luck to you both.

As for feeling teary and nervous, just remember that you are probably braver than about 90 per cent of the people on here (and certainly than me) and feed off that when you are starting to worry!

 

[Ambers Echo]

He is beautiful. I have no ideas how experienced you are, so this might not apply to you - but if a pro rider found him a handful and another pro felt on the edge of an explosion all the way round, is he really an amateur's horse? It's not as if they are saying he was fine with them so you could assume it is just your nerves transmitting or lack of experience in holding a feisty horse together etc. He sounds far from straightforward, even for the best riders. I don't mean to sounds negative and you are obviously getting good advice from people who know you and the horse. But you've already been hurt so I would be questioning the partnership if the lungeing/calmer solutions etc discussed above aren't really resolving things.

 

[TPO]

He is gorgeous and doesn't he know it! What a stunning boy.

Is there a way that you can test the calmer plan before the event? I have no idea how you'd search for them but there were lots of threads about this in Comp Riders a few years ago and ditto on TwitterEventing (and possibly an article about it on E-venting). The worry is always that the calmer has an effect on their reactions XC. I don't think anyone wants to be riding at speed towards fixed fences on a horse who possibly isn't able react as quickly.

Do you have someone else that can go with you in Dan's absence?

 

[Austen123]

He is beautiful. I have no ideas how experienced you are, so this might not apply to you - but if a pro rider found him a handful and another pro felt on the edge of an explosion all the way round, is he really an amateur's horse? It's not as if they are saying he was fine with them so you could assume it is just your nerves transmitting or lack of experience in holding a feisty horse together etc. He sounds far from straightforward, even for the best riders. I don't mean to sounds negative and you are obviously getting good advice from people who know you and the horse. But you've already been hurt so I would be questioning the partnership if the lungeing/calmer solutions etc discussed above aren't really resolving things.

im really trying to put this thought to the back of my head as im worrying the same. However, determined is my middle name and i wont give up without trying. If i can find a routine to suit him to keep a lid on his behaviour in the warm up i will keep doing it. In terms of my experience, Podge is my first proper competition horse before him i had my mare for 10 years and we happily competed unaff 80/90, hunting etc. i bought him with the aim to progress through the levels and teach me all manner of things. which he has done i am now a far far better rider than i ever was; learning all matter of fancy dressage moves and jumping all manner of dizzy heights that i didnt think i was capable of. plus he is a saint on the ground and all comps BAR eventing! i used to go out and compete on my own all the time and have a great time, which i still do with SJ etc however, at the moment this seems a far away dream for eventing.

 

[charterline]

Are you sure there’s nothing wrong with him

 

[Austen123]

He is gorgeous and doesn't he know it! What a stunning boy.

Is there a way that you can test the calmer plan before the event? I have no idea how you'd search for them but there were lots of threads about this in Comp Riders a few years ago and ditto on TwitterEventing (and possibly an article about it on E-venting). The worry is always that the calmer has an effect on their reactions XC. I don't think anyone wants to be riding at speed towards fixed fences on a horse who possibly isn't able react as quickly.

Do you have someone else that can go with you in Dan's absence?

my close friend will be there with her horse and we support each other, however she will be concentrating on her own horse. My OH will be too however he has little horsey experience.

 

[Austen123]

Are you sure there’s nothing wrong with him

in what way? back (physio/chiro) checked regularly, teeth checked regularly plus saddles.

 

[ihatework]

Okay, I wouldn’t ignore what 2 pros who have ridden the horse tell you.

You will need to stage manage this to the Nth degree, at least to start with.

Firstly have someone competent with you, equipped with a lunge line at all times. If you don’t have competent help, don’t go.

Find yourself a quiet corner and lunge him - lots!

If it’s possible get on him in that quiet corner with a person attached to that lunge line. Hopefully you can do some sort of warm up away from the official warm up.

If you can (and perhaps even if you can’t), get your helper to just lead you over to the arenas and go straight in. Get in there ASAP immediately after preceding riders halt. Then keep him busy around the arena, lots of SI, trans, and if he is feeling ok a quick canter.

Good luck

 

[Ambers Echo]

i bought him with the aim to progress through the levels and teach me all manner of things. which he has done i am now a far far better rider than i ever was; learning all matter of fancy dressage moves and jumping all manner of dizzy heights that i didnt think i was capable of.

Nothing like a challenging horse to teach you FAST. Good luck with it all and hope it goes well at Broadway x

 

[TPO]

Would it be worth contacting someone like Richard Maxwell? I know in one of his books he's written about dealing with top level SJer who had issues, he's evented and he is often over to the continent (germany?) where his son is working/riding on a SJ yard, while there RM appears to work with and treat top level jumpers.

The theme of his current "tour" of demos is translating all the groundwork he recommends into ridden work and the positive effects of it. In the past this has included over reactive horses who "blow their brains" and are ticking time bombs.

Maybe a slightly different approach might help to "get" your horse and give a plan of action to bring him down from the sky and listening to you?

 

[Austen123]

He is gorgeous and doesn't he know it! What a stunning boy.

He knows it too

 

[Austen123]

Nothing like a challenging horse to teach you FAST. Good luck with it all and hope it goes well at Broadway x

and i had to learn.. FAST! (and still learning!)

 

[Fiona]

Wishing you the best of luck this weekend OP, I really hope you have a great day...

Having a similar (but not bucking) problem with my son and his pony at the moment, and I'm going to reattach what he calls his 'jumping strap' to the front of the saddle. I think saddlers call them balance straps, and are used lots for ladies with big moving dressage horses as well as children.

Would having something like a neck strap or balance strap help you feel more confident to kick on and get after him in the warm up??? You could hold it with one hand or even a couple of fingers underneath it?

Feel free to tell me if that's a daft suggestion...

Fiona

 

[Red-1]

I commented in a previous post about your horse, and would say the same now, to pay Dan for a few events, and do several in a row, so being at an event starts to be routine and work, instead of a huge exciting party. Take the ride back over when he is settled.

For this weekend I would go and do loads of leading round and lungeing, and even if that is all you achieve then it is another outing completed and a lesson that arriving a an event does not mean it will necessarily be super exciting. I would also lunge before even setting off, so the whole day is about behaving and listening, and the lung work is actual thoughtful work rather than tearing round.

If you do decide to ride, I seem to remember you said he was OK in the warm up for SJ, would it be worth doing dressage in the jump saddle (I did for one of mine for years) and do your ridden warm up in the SJ arena. I had a horse who preferred that as in the SJ arena it is more forward and fluid, and mostly has less horses coming in opposing directions. I have a FAB photo of me in top hat and tails in the dressage at Blair Castle CCI*, with a XC saddle with short stirrups, as I felt this was safer!

 

[Austen123]

I commented in a previous post about your horse, and would say the same now, to pay Dan for a few events, and do several in a row, so being at an event starts to be routine and work, instead of a huge exciting party. Take the ride back over when he is settled.

For this weekend I would go and do loads of leading round and lungeing, and even if that is all you achieve then it is another outing completed and a lesson that arriving a an event does not mean it will necessarily be super exciting. I would also lunge before even setting off, so the whole day is about behaving and listening, and the lung work is actual thoughtful work rather than tearing round.

If you do decide to ride, I seem to remember you said he was OK in the warm up for SJ, would it be worth doing dressage in the jump saddle (I did for one of mine for years) and do your ridden warm up in the SJ arena. I had a horse who preferred that as in the SJ arena it is more forward and fluid, and mostly has less horses coming in opposing directions. I have a FAB photo of me in top hat and tails in the dressage at Blair Castle CCI*, with a XC saddle with short stirrups, as I felt this was safer!

Unfortunately, Dan wasnt available this weekend as at Badminton. thank you for the pointers.. with me at Goring he was still a live wire nightmare in the SJ (only jumped one warm up fence and went in) and with Dan he said he was a lot better than what he was in the DR warm up. i may look at the set up and decide what is best/quieter of the two. i will definitely look to lunge him before i go however he is now out 24/7 and on minimal feed so we will see if that helps too.

 

[Floxie]

I have a FAB photo of me in top hat and tails in the dressage at Blair Castle CCI*, with a XC saddle with short stirrups, as I felt this was safer!

Aaah now you can't drop that in there without the evidence

 

[ycbm]

He knows it too
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Am I gorgeous, or am I gorgeous, darlings 😁 ?

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

. I have a FAB photo of me in top hat and tails in the dressage at Blair Castle CCI*, with a XC saddle with short stirrups, as I felt this was safer!

Come on! Show us! You can't say it without showing it!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

He’s an absolute stunner that’s for sure!

My two penneth is what’s the hurry to go out and compete again especially if you’re dreading it?

I’d spend more time working on your partnership and training as well as the suggestion to get a pro out on him a few more times before going out again or at least wait to have someone good supporting you in the ground.

My old boy was always over-excited warming up in open areas for hunter trials etc. so my strategy was also to do very little warm up as he stopped listening and wound himself up. Thankfully his bucks were not as athletic as your horses probably are.

 

[ihatework]

One other thought, on a different thread did you not say you had been out 90/100 unaff Eventing with him all last year?

In which case how did he behave then?

It would seem weird if he wasn’t too bad last year to suddenly become a complete prat - what has changed from then until now?

 

[TheMule]

I see it as you have 2 options- you accept the horse's history and you try to manage it to keep a lid on him by lunging and trying to control all the fine details. Or, you try to change it.
To change it with an established horse is not necessarily easy, but if you ever want to go out and just enjoy your eventing day then it is essential. To change him you need to teach him that eventing is not a stressful game so he can bring the adrenaline level down. To me that's by doing everything slowly, quietly and giving him the time to process and calm down- I'm a big believer in going to a warm up and switching them off by offering for them to graze and look before you ask for work, that way they don't start on a high. But there are plenty of other approaches that could work

 

[Red-1]

Aaah now you can't drop that in there without the evidence

Come on! Show us! You can't say it without showing it!

OK...

Not our best ever photos, she mostly did the test in buck! We came last after dressage, she was a hot head. She was very cross. Sad because if we went to a pure dressage show she did exceptionally well, had lovely paces...

Top hat, tails and a Butet XC saddle - complete with me in a safety seat! (You will note that I had also sneakily sewn the tails up a smidge to discourage extra bucking). The XC was a blast though, despite a silly error.

 

[Pinkvboots]

What a gorgeous horse his coat is amazing he looks very fit and healthy, I have used rescue remedy on myself and the horse works wonders.

 

[Pinkvboots]

OK...

Not our best ever photos, she mostly did the test in buck! We came last after dressage, she was a hot head. She was very cross. Sad because if we went to a pure dressage show she did exceptionally well, had lovely paces...

Top hat, tails and a Butet XC saddle - complete with me in a safety seat! (You will note that I had also sneakily sewn the tails up a smidge to discourage extra bucking). The XC was a blast though, despite a silly error.

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View attachment 32040

You look great.