Following on from tying horse when travelling - who uses baler twine or not?

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Foaling Around

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(NB am also discussing the role in accidents when the worst happens, so thought I should put a pre warning. Trying to be ungraffic, but thought I better put a note at top in case)

Hi,

Sorry didn't want to hijack the other thread re. what rope to use, but one comment about not using baler twine as they can't go anywhere if it snaps, and if they unbalance it gives them something to lean on (sorry forgot who said it :o) really got me thinking.

I have always used baler twine as a matter of habit, but now questionning it.

After a couple of nasty trailer incidents myself, and a few that friends and aqaintancies (sp?!) have had, I don't really like trailers and would much prefer a box - but of course beggers can't be choosers!! And I know there are risks and accidents associated with both, but have gone into safety concious overdrive about every little detail!!

It makes sense in my head about the leaning, but then I worry in case of the very nasty accidents its easier to cut string than rope to get the horse out - but would quick release knot always be accessable in those cases? I mean not to be crude, and I wont go into details as it was tragic and its not my story to tell, but an aquaintance had a trailer jack knife and tip over on a busy road (not their fault), and the horse flew out the back of the trailer - but I wonder in different scenarios what roll baler twine has to play, as I'm sure there are bad accidents conversely where you want horse out asap. (I am sorry if this anecdote is close to anyone who is reading this as I mean not to bring up nasty memories, I was in 2 minds about writing about it, but I think I have been vague in telling it and it has haunted me ever since I heard about it, and I don't mean to simplify it to how to tie a horse up as I know its probably nothing in the bigger picture, I just want to be as safe as possible for all eventualities - impossible I know).

Also as a side bar how tight do you tie up? I always like to be quite short so they can reach haynet and thats it, as don't want a clever sausage turning head round, but then wonder how much neck they need for balance.

Sorry if this post seems very pinicaty (really can't spell today!) and unecessarily crude - but I definately feel getting older, and myself and friends having ever increasing runs of bad luck and nasty nasty accidents, I want me and my horses to be as safe as possible. I now see why my mum was concerned about "silly little things" when I was younger.
 
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I have a rope attached directly to the tie ring, and its permanantly there, I just swop from the leadrope to it once loaded. Its pretty loosely done up, and on long journeys I don't tie up at all.

Just what I do.
 
Not long ago I helped a horse that had gone over a partition in a rear facing 3.5 ton box, he was tied by a rope to the ring with a normal rope, while he hung, pretty much upside down, I tried to release the rope but had no chance, a piece of string would have broken quickly or been easy to cut, a safety clip could have been undone.
With this horse he was lucky, he was very big and the rope was old and eventually broke, he then slid to the floor and managed to barge out fairly unscathed, just the lorry wrecked.
I use safety chains that are covered, they stay in the lorry and are clipped to the rings. Otherwise I would use string if tying with non safety ropes.
 
I have a trailer and mine are always crossed tied (travel with no partition).

The ropes are tied to baler twine and I load with a different rope and then just clip on to the cross ties when loaded.
 
Bailer twine or the odd rubber tying up things or quick release chains, and always leather headcollars- having had a few go down for no apparent reason would hate to have something that could hang them :eek:
 
I've always used what we call 'bull nose' panic snaps, which can still be undone even if they are under pressure, unlike tied ropes or other kinds of snaps. The only debate is do you put the panic snap end on the horse or the wall.

Baling twine is much stronger than it used to be, too, so it's not always as ' quick release' as people think.

To be honest, if the force of a collision was enough to chuck the horse out the back of a vehicle, then it would also be hard enough to beak the horse's neck if it was restrained. Swings and roundabouts, really. If you're in that much trouble then there's probably quite a bit to worry about.

My main concern with trailer ties is they hold under normal use but can be undone quickly. Out if curiosity, for the people who would cut a horse out, where do you keep a big enough knife where you would be SURE to be able to get to it in a crisis?
 
I use loops of bailer twine around the bar in the lorry. I then attach trailer ties which have a slide to release clip at one end (therefore can be popped open even when the rope is taught) and a normal lead-rope clip at the other. These ties allow enough movement for the horse to reach haynets and have a little look around, but not enough to, say, try and bite their neighbour.

I've also found these ropes work well in the training of horses to stand on the lorry. I'm often unloading/loading myself, and my horse has very quickly learnt the difference between the partition being open and tied with the trailer tie, and when I clip a rope on to lead off. He never moves with the tie, even with the back wide open.

I've never tied to anything other than bailing twine. It just seems to be an accident waiting to happen. I know that, if I had to, I could easily release my horses ropes or, if for some reason that couldn't happen, cut a string.
 
TarrSteps said:
My main concern with trailer ties is they hold under normal use but can be undone quickly. Out if curiosity, for the people who would cut a horse out, where do you keep a big enough knife where you would be SURE to be able to get to it in a crisis?
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I have an equestrian swiss army knife I keep in the cab of the lorry. If I couldn't get to it, then I'd probably not be in a state to get to the horses in the first place.
 
Thank you for your considered responses, I had just never thought of not using baler twine, but as it was brought up I just wanted to see others opinions. I use a normal lead rope with one of the quick release mechanisms attached to headcollar, and tied to baler twine (the ring is also "weakened" - in that its a metal that looks more maluble, with a small gap in it that presumably will allow it to bend and release if sufficient force is exerted on it - I think it might be standard in new trailers?).

Tarrsteps - yes didn't even think of transfer of force, and of course I did not mean to imply that one simple change can prevent disatrous consequences, and I am sorry if it read that way. I don't even know how the horse was tied so in retrospect I probably shouldn't have bought it up. I know its crude but we all like to prepare for the unknown, and I guess I just want to know when the worst has happened to people, what little things they wish they had done differently, and what things they think helped (exactly like Be Positive's example - thank you :)).

MissSBird - that is an excellent idea, I always have scissors "somewhere" - but not useful in a panic

Bettyboo and britestar- what is your reason for not tying at all on long journeys? I have heard of horses trying to turn themselves round that puts me off not tying.

One thing I have learnt after a horse that had a penchant for jumping the breast bars and partition is know where the quick release mechanisms are - and practice how they work. (I know with new Ifor Williams trailers you can drop the breast bar from a screw outside - wish I'd known that earlier though!! And had never had a trailer incident before that so stupidly never thought).
 
Just a note of caution with baler twine - these days it is nylon not the old fashioned hairy band and does not snap easily. I had a mare tied up who panicked and ran backwards , the twine did not snap but the thick, new, halter rope did, eventually. The metal rings on the headcolar were also stretched out of shape and the horse required treatment for the muscle damage in her neck.
 
If the horse shot out of the back of the trailer, it was going to do that whether or not there was baler twine. If whatever was tying it didn't break, the horses neck woul dhave so there was nothing you could have done.
Always baler twine, string snaps easier and is easier to cut
 
I don't use bailer twine in the trailer but my horse only ever wears a leather headcollar, if he needs to break free, he can. I always have at least one spare headcollar and rope on board in case of breakages/accidents.
 
I tie mine to baler twine but I cut the length I need and then split it down it's length into 3 (as our twine is quite thick) so its only a third of the thickness and would break if needed. I think people forget how thick baler twine can be nowadays.

I do also have some of those elastic bungee things for tying up babies and youngsters and they go in the truck too if the babies do. They ping off a bit too easily but after seeing a yearling get caught and go up and over onto the yard I would rather the ping!
 
I don't use modern baler twine as I think it's too strong to break in an emergency. I travel mine in leather headcollars and I have attached a small loop of ordinary string to the ring you would clip the rope to. This means I can load them with the rope on the ring (in case of high jinks :)), then swap the clip to the string once they are in and tied up. The loop of string stays on the headcollars all the time so even if I had to load them in someone else's transport I would still have my quick release device. Works well for me!
 
I always tie to bailer twine. Use plastic covered chains and leather headcollars in the lorry. When we had tack lockers in the back of our lorry one of mine had a habit of jumping on to them, when he got really stuck and was boxing with his feet the only real way of getting him out was to cut the string. I wasnt about to put my arm in to undo the saftey clip. If there had been no string i'd have had to cut off his headcollar, then i would have had a loose (mental) horse on a showground. I always know where there are strrong sissors/knife for this reason. He also wears hobbles so i want to know i can cut those off too.
 
hi
my friends were involved in a trailer accident , carrying two horses and one of those horses slid out the back of the (over turned) trailer onto the motorway ,he was fine and just stood there in the middle of the road and was swiftly caught without a mark on him

the other was unhurt but trapped in the trailer but panicked and burst his way out and due to the design of the trailer he was fatally injured :( and pts at the scene

some trailers are designed to "peel" open when they over turn so its quite common for horses to slide out of the back in an accident ,so there not always thrown out through impact

so you can't win either way tbh ,if the horse is contained in the trailer it could still be fatally injured ,if they get out onto the road they could also get hit by a car

due to the above and a serious near miss towing a caravan back from burghley HT i no longer tow and have a lorry and i use a quick release saftey clip ,clipped onto the tie ring ,then baler twine tied to that ,then a normal lead rope tied to that
i like mine tied fairly tight so they can't get there head up and over the partition or turn around
 
I travel mine in the trailer with no headcollar at all - if I do ever tie up I use baler twine.

I think previous experiences/accidents shape how we travel our horses, and as with most things it is about damage limitation and the lesser of two evils. There is often a good argument for both options.
 
TarrSteps said:
I've always used what we call 'bull nose' panic snaps, which can still be undone even if they are under pressure, unlike tied ropes or other kinds of snaps. The only debate is do you put the panic snap end on the horse or the wall.
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My panic snap is attached to the bailer twine. Tried it attached to the headcollar but found that it twisted through the ring in the headcoller and got stuck making it even harder to unclip than a conventional clip
 
i use one of the safety rubber tie type things-will just pop out if put under certain amount of pressure
know one person who tied direct to tie ring- horse reared and lost front legs and nearly suffocated himself on the breast bar....... tie was a covered chain
and someone else who used whole baler that was as strong...
i prefer it to release under pressure- eg weight of the horse.
i use the rubber ties at home on the yard too
 
Foaling Around said:
Bettyboo and britestar- what is your reason for not tying at all on long journeys? I have heard of horses trying to turn themselves round that puts me off not tying.
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I like them to be able to get their heads down on a longer journey - talking 4 hours +.

Never had one try to turn around. Current competing horse liked to travel with his head under the breast bar as a youngster, I think it helped him balance better.
 
I think it was me who made the original comment on the last thread :D I actually think it is down to whether you travel in a trailer, or a lorry. Trailers scare me, all the way out the back behind your car, but obviously, each to their own, finances and etc.

We have a lorry, which is why I don't use twine or any quick release things, as (hopefully!) there is less chance of an accident involving the horse. The partitions in lorries are pretty sturdy, and I think the horse is well contained anyway. If they stagger or fell during travel, that's what I was always taught anyway, that they can use it then to steady themself, as they can't pull back anyway. Just what I was taught, and I like the idea they can right themselves if they staggered during an emergency stop or something.
With a trailer, yes, I might want a quick release tie, then if god forbid, something did happen, the horse could get out if in a panic.

I haven't heard of any terrible accidents involving lorries, but sure someone will put me right about this? :D
 
dressagelove said:
I haven't heard of any terrible accidents involving lorries, but sure someone will put me right about this? :D
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Yep, there have been many. Recent high profile one that springs to mind is paul tapners groom taking horses home, broke down on hard shoulder and crashed into by another lorry, horse was thrown out of the lorry onto carriageway - amazingly enough unhurt
 
Foaling Around said:
journeys? I have heard of horses trying to turn themselves round that puts me off not tying.
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That is just what I was taught to do, I have never once had a horse turn round on me :) I do class llong as more than 3 hours though, I am also another person who carries a equestrian knife in my blouson pocket and we also have sissors in the car door
 
Vickijay said:
I tie mine to baler twine but I cut the length I need and then split it down it's length into 3 (as our twine is quite thick) so its only a third of the thickness and would break if needed. I think people forget how thick baler twine can be nowadays.
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yes this ^^^


even on the yard I slit the baler twine so that its not as thick because it really is not the same as it used to be.

I wouldnt tie to anything else though, I'd rather they got loose.
 
_April_ said:
yes this ^^^


even on the yard I slit the baler twine so that its not as thick because it really is not the same as it used to be.

I wouldnt tie to anything else though, I'd rather they got loose.
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I split it too, and tie to that all of the time!!! If my mare is being stroppy and pulling back I may tie her up to the full thickness but that is only whilst under my supervision, in the box its at least a 3rd of the thickness!!! Baler twine is bloody strong!!
 
ditto this, i weaken the baler twine, usually by 1/3 or 1/2 depending on the initial strength, and then clip the panic strap thingy to it.
one of my absolute pet hates/fears is haynets (on lorries, trailers or anywhere) tied directly to tie rings with no sacrificial twine. in fact i've had two pieces of twine broken this week and no injured horses (thank heavens).
 
TarrSteps said:
To be honest, if the force of a collision was enough to chuck the horse out the back of a vehicle, then it would also be hard enough to beak the horse's neck if it was restrained. Swings and roundabouts, really. If you're in that much trouble then there's probably quite a bit to worry about.
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Speaking from experience, yes and no. Having lost a horse in an accident, the baler twine snapped (the rope and leather headcollar did not) and my mare was thrown out over the back ramp. She had massive head trauma and a broken back. I'm afraid our priority had to be the other horse who remained in the trailer (again the twine snapped but leather headcollar and rope did not).
 
I think that's the thing, though, no matter what path you decide to take with horses, there will always be someone whose experience makes them wish they'd taken another one. You simply cannot prepare for every eventuality, particularly when what might save you in one might damn you in another. At the end of the day, all you can do is give it as much thought as you can and hope for the best.

I think there ARE things that are universally going to help make trailering as safe as possible - good quality trailer and suitable vehicle in good repair, quality tires, sway bars, safe driving, never being in a hurry, never driving in dangerous conditions if you can help it, training horses to travel well, giving some thought to how horses are arranged/which travel together, suitable rugging for travelling horses etc.
 
I have the old thinner type of baling twine on my lorry tie rings but I don't tie my horse up, I just leave the headcollar on and the leadrope on the floor just inside the ramp. The design of my lorry (rear facing 3.5t makes it awkward to untie the horse. Yu either go in the horse part and reach round the horse or go in the back and untie but then have to undo a small door and go in under the breast bar. Fine is two of you though.
 
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