Following on from Yogi, dressage hacking etc . . .a question.

TarrSteps

TarrSteps

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Out of curiosity, how often so "you" out there in internet land ride on a completely surrendered rein? I don't mean active stretching, or just with the horse's nose poked out but still on a contact, I mean on the buckle with a totally relaxed arm, with the horse relaxed and filling out the rein. And when and where do you do this? Does anyone walk on a LOOSE rein to start? Do you ever trot or canter on a completely surrendered rein, even if just to see if you can?

(I do meet people who THINK they are on a loose rein but aren't and I was interested to see this crop up at the Yogi demo, where he told a couple of people to ride "on the buckle" then had to chivvy them into actually doing what he'd asked.)

If not, if you are always "holding" the horse's head, what is the reasoning?

I am just genuinely interested in the thinking behind what people do.
 
I haven't read the threads you mentioend but if I understand your point correctly, my answer is :

One of our arenas is off the main yard, probably about a 2 minute walk from arena to my stable door. I tend to walk back from the arena on a surrendered rein without any contact whatsoever. Also when walking back up the track from a hack I'll let go completely so for about 4-5 minutes, its done as a end of session reward or sometimes during schooling sessions as a reward, it's not something I've consciously given thought to but just something that I think is nice to do.
 
3/4 of the times I ride I spend at least some time on the buckle end, I like doing it as it shows a bit of trust from us both :)

I ride during or at the end of a schooling session, if during it's cos I like to do weight/seat/leg only exercises, often it's to relax a little during the thinking times as I figure if my brain hurts then his might too, plus it's a sort of reward for him too as long as he's doing well! I do it out on hacks as I do love a good chilled out mooch along too.

I don't want to always be holding onto to his head, he's only a youngun and I just don't feel the need :)
 
always start my schooling sessions at home by walking on the buckle for 5mins before encouraging a more rounded stretch down and again on the buckle for 5-10mins at the end. I can trot/canter him on the buckle in the school if I want to but I dont feel it's beneficial for him as he will just go like a giraffe.

out hacking I might let him walk part of the way home on the buckle but he is prone to some incredible spooks so I do feel I'm taking my life in my hands by doing this!
 
TarrSteps said:
Out of curiosity, how often so "you" out there in internet land ride on a completely surrendered rein? I don't mean active stretching, or just with the horse's nose poked out but still on a contact, I mean on the buckle with a totally relaxed arm, with the horse relaxed and filling out the rein. And when and where do you do this? Does anyone walk on a LOOSE rein to start? Do you ever trot or canter on a completely surrendered rein, even if just to see if you can?

(I do meet people who THINK they are on a loose rein but aren't and I was interested to see this crop up at the Yogi demo, where he told a couple of people to ride "on the buckle" then had to chivvy them into actually doing what he'd asked.)

If not, if you are always "holding" the horse's head, what is the reasoning?

I am just genuinely interested in the thinking behind what people do.
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I always start a session by doing a lap of the school on each rein on the buckle end, mainly because she likes to have a bit of a hissy fit about one end of the school and actually just saying 'her you go I'm giving you time to relax and chill, if you want to piss about you can, but you wont get any reaction and my way is far easier' generally results in a much more productive session. We also have a track running round the fields which we quiue often do what can only be described as 'mooching' round on the buckle end, again because it just encourages her to chill out and think for herself a bit rather than me constantly telling her what I want to do IYSWIM?

Occasionally she's just not in the mood to do this and I do have to pick up a contact and be like just get on with it you big lump, but generally this works well :)

I think there does have to be a certain amount of trust there to start with as you are in effect relinquishing all control. In my case this isn't trust in my horse but trust in my stickability ;) :p

Should add I do canter like this ocassionally, but rarely trot, not really sure why! lol
 
I hack out on the buckle once a week (apart from on the roads, as horse is a bit of a pain in traffic!), so about 2 hours of work sans contact. Only in walk and gallop, though - my ex-racer has yet to get his head around trot and canter on a loose rein.
 
I do this pretty often whilst hacking, and will warm up on a long (loose) rein is possible at a show. This is often not possible at BS due to space, but I will generally have a nice canter off his back with a loose rein before I do anything with him if I'm at an ODE. Guess its a nice way for them to work out any little stiffness niggles if they have been standing on a lorry.

Plus, sometimes I'm just a bit lazy and want to enjoy the surroundings on my hack too! :D
 
My most recent horse (ISH) had a fantastic temperament and I started every schooling session with a lot of stretching on a fairly long rain and would give him regular breaks on the buckle end. His quality of work improved no end through stretching and if I rode without doing this I never really got him soft over his back. After a lot of work (taking several months) I could get him into a steady contact from my leg/seat with his head very low on a really long rein. He went from being a horse I did not enjoy flatwork on to a horse I loved to school as once his back relaxed and he let go he became more forward, engaged and in self carraige and was generally a joy to ride.

My retired horse (TB ex-flat race horse) was unpredicatable and although I did do long and low stretching work with him (on non-windy days!) I was never really able to let the rein out compeletely and only buckle ended him on very hot, sunny days when airs above the ground were not going to happen!! He was actually very light in the mouth and getting him to go into the bridle properly was quite tricky so I would not say I "held him up" but I must admit I did not feel comfortable at all if I could not gather my reins up pretty quite sharpish. Long and low with him was therefore a compromise : )
 
As an aside I have attempted to canter a circle on the buckle end (after reading about a man that rode with no bridle) on my nice horse and we managed it but the circle was rather large (big arena at our yard!).
 
Lol I got 'found out' this year - I hadn't realised how much of my hacking with my arab I do 'on the buckle'! But friend started riding him when hers was off and understandably not knowing him kept a very light soft contact on rein. He was an absolute monster grabbing rein and snatching! He never does this with me, and it seems its because with him he is either 'working' or 'not' so either connected and round (albeit sometimes in a longer lower outline) or I just give him the whole rein!
Young horse - not so much simply because he is younger and a little spookier out hacking. In school I spend first 5 mins just totally on a long rein but maybe in all honesty its not totally on the buckle - we have added hazards in our school of chickens in the long grass on bank, turkeys and goats in pen next to school etc so do like to be able to shorten reins pdq when needed, eg yesterdat when goat and turkey decided to jump at same time onto their tree trunk!
 
In the school every now and again will cool down but moving down from trot to walk whilst on the buckle end. Out hacking if he has worked (like to school for first half of hack once warm) then spend rest of it one handed holding the buckle. Only time take up a contact is if the person i am with is struggling to keep up with horses extra fast walk as he can go on a bit of a mission :D
 
I would say at least 1/3 of my time spent hacking is buckle end, mostly in walk but sometimes in trot. The remainder of the time is spent equally in a light contact or a more working contact. But then I have a sane and generally relaxed horse, if I had something sharper I might be more cautious about the buckle thing!

Interestingly, in the school, I do far less on the buckle. I spend a fair bit of time on a light contact/active stretch but proper loose buckle, maybe 2min beginning and end if I'm honest.
 
often. i'm lazy out hacking, v happy to be on buckle end with horse mooching along, no contact at all, in walk and trot. canter depends on environment and if horse is sensible, but after a silly one has settled i'll let it go on a totally loose rein. that's 'self carriage' innit? ;) ;) ;) seriously though, if the horse is always pushed up and onto the contact, isn't that a sort of helped-carriage? how does it learn to balance itself automatically with a rider on if there is always interference in front?
Even when in an outline i want my horses very light. ditto to a fence, if i can i'll continually give the contact forward. i think it helps with the whole 'owning the fence' malarkey (but that's a different topic!)
 
Not read any replies yet because good or bad (I honestly have no idea but it does feel good) I do this EVERYTIME I ride for at least 10-20mins. This includes hacking ;) I've always done it and this horse I have now is ace as you can walk/trot/canter all literally on the buckle including 15-20m circles......
 
I will let F finish off in walk on the buckle, but never R because he can ALWAYS and for no reason put in a nasty spook and spin and the only thing that reassures him is being between hand and leg. Both work walk/trot/canter on a long rein though
 
At the moment I only cool down on the buckle (in the school and out hacking) purely because, as he's a baby, I sometimes need my reins a bit quicker at the beginning ;) However we do warm up in w,t and c on a longer rein with a slight contact. I only ask him to work after about 5-10mins of this and TBH I don't think it will be long before we can warm up on the buckle regardless of the situation in w&t.. C might take longer !

My old horse I would do everything on a long rein and my instructor encouraged it regularly in lessons.
 
When we were back at home we had to hack for 5-10 minutes down to the arena, which I'd do without reins at all. When I was younger I'd have lunge lessons without stirrups and reins (gosh my mother was cruel ;):p) so now I'll happily trot and canter without them - I'll keep the stirrups though! If I'm doing work without stirrups I'll keep my reins.

I'll happily do light schooling on the buckle as Rossi is such a star and has beautiful self-carriage that some days that's all he needs. I also like to do it wit the young horses, 6y/o Ansgar in particular, because it's nice for him to relax before schooling and I'd rather that he develops self-carriage and can do it on his own, than rely on a riders hands (does that make sense?)

I think it's really important to do work on a totally loose rein or without them at all, and I make my students (even the youngest girl) do it, because it teaches you to balance without your hands, and i'm sick of seeing riders who think it's okay to lean on a horses mouth! I think it's also useful to teach people how their legs and overall position are important to a horses way of going, whether it's keeping them going forwards, turning or transitions.
 
I wander along in walk on the tb on the buckle can't do anything faster on the buckle as he is a prat. When I ride The Pony I pretty much never pick up the rein and we do jump with me one handed on the buckle - no exaggeration and it has saved my butt a few times. By riding on a loose rein not only can he relax but he has to completely carry himself
 
At the start middle and end of every schooling session in addition to stretching into a long rein.
Most of the time out hacking.
Also hacking I ride with reins in one hand and other hand on my hip, this straightens me out so is good for the pair off us. Oddly enough horse has started to offer some trot lengthening when riding like this.
Keep contact in canter as balance there is still very much a work in progress.
 
On my spotty one I'm normally on the buckle as makes her saner, lanes round me are very quiet, on my other one she will have time on the buckle and other times be working into a contact (she's not going to be allowed to get into the cheeky habits of spotty pony) and others that I rose for other pep, just depends how they are going an what the roads are like really, I mainly hack and hunt other horses, so don't school in the areana really.
 
At the beginning and end of schooling I ride on the buckle, and sometimes in the middle if he's been doing something hard [for him] or he's got stressed over something, it relaxes him so much.
Also heading out on a hack I'll usually have a pretty loose rein to start, which usually continues the whole time depending on where we go, if he's being good he gets the whole rein. I'll trot in the school on a loose rein quite often as if I shorten it took much/too quickly he'll tense and stick his head in the air like a llama.
In short, I do it because it keeps him relaxed.
 
A lot of the time as I mostly hack and do Trec and I don't have enough hands to do the map and hold the reins properly :D .

I had a few great lessons with Donald Kear at our BHS camp where I worked on the buckle in all three paces , making downward transitions with weight aids only , loved it as we were top of the class :D.
Showed up my collapsed hip in the circle .
I was amazed at how some could not ride at all without a firm hold on the reins
 
Haven't read the answers but I ride like that alllll the time, I am a lazy rider, I mooch around and I blame riding Spanish horses for that! I don't encourage the horse to stretch,but they tend to anyway, I am literally holding the buckle of the reins and on we go, walk, trot and canter and I sometimes jump like that too, all done from the seat, happy days :)

People think I am odd LOL!
 
Loads - esp on the more 'finished' horses. Everything out hacking for periods of time off-road, and in the field when warming up. Was having fun yesterday riding without reins or stirrups, and just playing - my TB takes herself hacking that way with just a hand on the reins or the reins looped over the pommel if I let her (but she's sane enough that I can - and my seat is good enough that if she were to shoot off I'd be ok lol!). There's a time for serious stuff, and a time for muscle building stuff, and a time for play. Each in its place :).
 
My TB - yes, i used to after a long ride (on the way back) around the quiet bridleway she would be on buckle end and also after a schooling session for a stretch.
Youngster - no, not out hacking, always have a contact, but not to the extent of asking her to work in an outline
After a schooling session she will have a fairly long, loose rein to stretch but as shes only been broken in 6 weeks i still never drop my guard completely!
 
I can't believe i missed the Yogi thread earlier! I was at the yogi demo and i think that i met Tarrsteps in the queue for tea at the break!

I always warm mine up on the buckle in the school and to cool down too...she's a much nicer mare for it! I also hack out with a mixture of mooching (great word) on the buckle and with a contact.
 
i do for the first 10mins on my project horse ,we have 5min hack to arena and i only touch the reins if he wonders ,then for another 5mins in arena
he can get tense because he has been ridden by novice ridders who have grabbed/pulled the reins at the slightest thing so i find if i leave him alone he settles more quickly and this has become our warm up and it works for him i don't do it on my other horse although i am experementing with it as it works so well for the other one

he's also just learning to canter and i give him the reins completely and get off his back so he can learn to balance for himself as he finds canter difficult

no idea if this ^ is right or wrong as i can't afford lessons atm but it seems to be working :)
 
I do (did!) a lot I hack out on the cob with no reins and ride him long and low in the school. With the big girl I ride on the buckle in the school in walk only - purely because she doesn't understand seat/leg aids yet - but on hacks I will keep my reins.
 
I am training my warmblood to do lots of stuff from the buckle. Upward and downward transitions. He is currently working on halt/canter/halt,just for something new. And we do all our schooling out hacking. Alot of the time I wish I had longer reins because when he stretches down I have to lean forwards slightly to allow enough stretch.
However I have tried no reins and found my hands were very lost without them.Also if I am in a vast open space,like most of Exmoor,I do find I am too chicken to go to the buckle,but I plan to work on this.
I had a go at horseback archery,and that was fab for building confidence....and my hands were busy with the bow and arrows. I am planning to train my spotty horse to be an archery horse when she is grown up.:D
 
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