Food for puppy failing to put on weight

On the Hoof

On the Hoof

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Hi, just a bit of background first. Ripley my BC pup is now 6 months old. She was the smallest in the litter and has always been a skinny minny but I have raised weight issues with my vets on 3 occasions and just been waved away with words such as' BC, hyperactive, healthy pup, don’t worry….'
She has been on the breeders own feed since I collected her and I am told by a few people that the composition is very good so for those interested it is a kibble with 28% protein, 14% oils and fats, 3% fibres, 7.5% Ash, 1.1% Omega 6 and 3% Omega 3.
Ingredients are 60% Salmon/haddock/blue whiting; 14% Sweet potato and rest is beet, peas, potato and asparagus plus some other guff.

Ripley has basically only put on half a kilo a week since I had her but a month ago this rate started to slow down. 3 weeks ago she was weighed when I took her in after receiving some wasps stings and today we went back to vets as she has been poorly with a stomach bug for a couple of days. On weighing today she has lost .4kg since last weigh in, which really means that she has lost this plus what she should have put on during that three week period. She poos about 6 times a day and they are large, and I did raise this with vet 3 weeks ago and that didn’t seem to raise a flag for them, although today’s locum recognized that she is probably not getting her nutritional needs met and suggested changing to a hypoallergenic puppy food. She suggested either Burns/James wellbeloved/Arden grange or Nature menu.
So are there any other makes for sensitive tummys that anyone would suggest I consider? I do not know much about raw diets and I don’t have a very large freezer so that might not be the best way forward.
Thankyou for any suggestions

ps, exercise normally consists of 30-40 minutes first thing on tracking line so she can have a run about; walk in woods at lunchtime usually we pootle for about an hour maybe longer but this is slow walking on short lead and stopping to encourage her to sniff we might only walk 1km in total in that time; same again late afternoon. She is more tired after wood walks with plenty to sniff at than running around which just hypes her up.

Ps as I left the vets I wondered if I should have asked for blood test for thyroid problems ?? Having googled this now, hyperthyroidism seems rare in dogs and although she is majorly hyperactive and then crashes out I kind of assumed this was a puppy thing, esp BC. She does get massively overexcited and cant calm down and she has the attention span of a gnat. What do we think? Try food change first and see if I can get weight on her over next four weeks or should I push for some investigations?
 
She might just be running and stressing the weight off herself. That is a lot of poos though. Are you feeding the RDA? As that isn't always the best thing for the dog, most of us here would probably feed by eye. The problem is if you choose a food to put weight on, it could come with a high oil or fat content, which could run through her, depending on what her actual issue might be. My hunch would be too much protein in the food but a hunch is all it is.
It also sounds like a lot of exercise for a youngster, she is maybe overstimulated, you could look at brain training and making her think to tire her out.

My younger dog was very sickly and skinny as a puppy and had stomach problems throughout his life, he has stablilised well on James Wellbeloved Lamb and Rice, after a lot of trial and error. Not a recommendation per se, just what worked for us.
 
Can you send a photo of the ingredients list for the food your feeding (pm if you would Rather), it's not just the quantity of each meat it's what sort of meat it is that can be important. Personally I don't feed puppy food and haven't for quite a few years. I stopped feeding it after doing a nutrition course, I worked at a vets nd it opens your eyes to the money that is in pet feed and it made me ask a lot of questions, I did courses through work and that raised more questions for me so I did an independent course.
We currently have 6 collies, 4 working, 1 in training about to start work and a puppy. We also have an elderly springer and a lurcher, the lurcher is on special food but the rest all get the same food with different additions for some.
To be honest I would expect her weight gain to reduce by now as she will be growing slower at this age.
Has the vet weight condition scored Ripley?
Photos would help from above, from behind and from the side all with her standing straight.
Again if you would rather PM then please do that.
 
CorvusCorax said:
She might just be running and stressing the weight off herself. That is a lot of poos though. Are you feeding the RDA? As that isn't always the best thing for the dog, most of us here would probably feed by eye. The problem is if you choose a food to put weight on, it could come with a high oil or fat content, which could run through her, depending on what her actual issue might be. My hunch would be too much protein in the food but a hunch is all it is.
It also sounds like a lot of exercise for a youngster, she is maybe overstimulated, you could look at brain training and making her think to tire her out.

My younger dog was very sickly and skinny as a puppy and had stomach problems throughout his life, he has stablilised well on James Wellbeloved Lamb and Rice, after a lot of trial and error. Not a recommendation per se, just what worked for us.
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She is being fed above the RDA as that was clearly not enough for her, I have been wondering about the amount of protein and whether this is a factor. Re exercise and brain games - the pootle in the woods is really standing around a lot and chucking kibble out for her to search for which then gets her nose going and she starts sniffing around , otherwise she would just pull me around for an hour and we would walk 5k not .5-1k as we do now, but I take your point. we do lots of brain games as this definitely tires her out more than anything.
 
twiggy2 said:
Can you send a photo of the ingredients list for the food your feeding (pm if you would Rather), it's not just the quantity of each meat it's what sort of meat it is that can be important. Personally I don't feed puppy food and haven't for quite a few years. I stopped feeding it after doing a nutrition course, I worked at a vets nd it opens your eyes to the money that is in pet feed and it made me ask a lot of questions, I did courses through work and that raised more questions for me so I did an independent course.
We currently have 6 collies, 4 working, 1 in training about to start work and a puppy. We also have an elderly springer and a lurcher, the lurcher is on special food but the rest all get the same food with different additions for some.
To be honest I would expect her weight gain to reduce by now as she will be growing slower at this age.
Has the vet weight condition scored Ripley?
Photos would help from above, from behind and from the side all with her standing straight.
Again if you would rather PM then please do that.
Click to expand...
Ok - ingredient list attached hopefully, will pm you photos later when I have someone to keep her standing in one place :)
 

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I have found adding an extra meal worked well to put weight on skinny pups without stressing their digestive system. My sighthound needs a fat content of 17% to keep weight on and quite a lot more carbs than my other dogs. If she is otherwise healthy, it may be worth experimenting with the levels of fat and carbs in her food to find out what she can tolerate and see if it helps with her weight.

Reading the ingredients list, it looks like a grain free product. Contrary to some popular beliefs, dogs have evolved to digest starches. The old fashioned dog men used to add cooked pasta, bread and fat trimmings to their working dogs' bowls to keep weight on.
 
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i would feed her small meals 4 times a day, go back to puppy regime for a while. it may be that she is bolting the large meals and they are going straight through so she is not getting the goodness. 6 large poos a day are quite a lot which points to the food going straight through......i would also not give her so much exercise and try and keep her calmer..do you act calmly yourself? she will pick up if you are a bit hyper...,plenty of mind games as you have been doing....
 
Those ingredients look high quality and contain starch in the potato and peas, the food already contains linseed but you could also try adding coconut oil. Ditto the advice about increasing the number of meals.
 
If you feel that she is bolting her food, it might be worth getting one of those dishes with compartments to slow her down. I know someone with a Dalmation who has to have one - and it works a treat!
 
Pearlsasinger said:
If you feel that she is bolting her food, it might be worth getting one of those dishes with compartments to slow her down. I know someone with a Dalmation who has to have one - and it works a treat!
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We use a slow feeder for Daisy too.

Can you increase the number of meals she gets?

Out of interest I avoid any food with beat in it, and you may get better results with either a raw diet, or good quality wet food.

How are her stools?
 
I'm with Amymay, dump the food, mine do very badly on beet. It is a filler with no goodness, I bet she'd do better on one with wheat tbh!
 
I would try to not worry, she’ll grow regardless and maybe will always be a skinny bc.....I have a collie x who never ate much, by 6 months he was on one feed a day and nowhere near what I wanted him to eat. He’s now 3, still not a great eater but looks well and is taller and heavier than expected.
 
Is she skinny or fat? If normal body weight I wouldn't worry.
I would consider a second opinion and asking what might cause poor weight gain in a puppy
Does she finish all her food? Can you simply increase it?
 
thankyou for comments everyone. not in any particular order but She is skinny, she does not bolt her food and we have already increased it over RDA , yes it is a grain free product and I am a calm person most of the time. As it happens she has taken a downturn earlier this evening and we have just come back from vet hospital. It was a bit borderline whether she stayed in on a drip but as I said that she is still drinking we decided that we can still manage her at home. They want three days fecal samples to check for the less common parasites and have put her on royal canin gastro intestinal wet food to ensure that she gets some nutrients in her whilst we collect samples and get them analysed. I will go back to four meals per day as people suggest - that makes sense to me- and start looking for another food for her once this illness is sorted.
 
Fish is generally low in fat, its what i fed my fat dogs. If you are set on kibble (personally i hate kibble) try one that has something a bit more fattening in it? If you are not set on kibble i would get some proper raw meat into her. Ill ask my friend what she feeds her lab its now raw perse but its a meat mix and whatever is in it works because her dog is probably one of the best looking dogs i have seen in a long time.
 
On the Hoof said:
thankyou for comments everyone. not in any particular order but She is skinny, she does not bolt her food and we have already increased it over RDA , yes it is a grain free product and I am a calm person most of the time. As it happens she has taken a downturn earlier this evening and we have just come back from vet hospital. It was a bit borderline whether she stayed in on a drip but as I said that she is still drinking we decided that we can still manage her at home. They want three days fecal samples to check for the less common parasites and have put her on royal canin gastro intestinal wet food to ensure that she gets some nutrients in her whilst we collect samples and get them analysed. I will go back to four meals per day as people suggest - that makes sense to me- and start looking for another food for her once this illness is sorted.
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I hope she is ok.
The food your feeding is actually a pretty good dry food, beet pulp does not suit all dogs and if for whatever reason a food does not suit then it needs changing.
Have the tested for campylobacter and giardia?
 
What's her body condition score?
Ideally puppies should be lean and slim not fat, particularily a working breed doing that much exercise....but if shes a 1/1.5 then I'd be getting concerned that she has an underlying health condition. Anything above a 2 in a puppy wouldn't that wouldnt worry me to much if the dogs clinically healthy at this age.
Weight gain should also be slowing at this age so thats pretty normal.

If you worried I'd change to a different complete food, up the carbs -add grains-contrary to popular belief most dogs do fine with grains, drop the protein levels, change away from fish to a different protein source and increase overall calorie intake by increasing amount of daily meals and overall calories but feeding a smaller portion at each meal.

Hypoallergenic food may not be needed unless she had other gi and food intolerance signs.

Personally I'm not a grainfree fan at all and wont feed it to my dog.
 
twiggy2 said:
I hope she is ok.
The food your feeding is actually a pretty good dry food, beet pulp does not suit all dogs and if for whatever reason a food does not suit then it needs changing.
Have the tested for campylobacter and giardia?
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Giardia is one of the ones they will be testing for, sorry I am a bit tired and now cannot remember what vet hospital said, but I know that they wanted to rule out 3 or 4 different things. I will be checking any new potential foods to avoid beet pulp I think in case it is a factor. thankyou
 
Aru said:
What's her body condition score?
Ideally puppies should be lean and slim not fat, particularily a working breed doing that much exercise....but if shes a 1/1.5 then I'd be getting concerned that she has an underlying health condition. Anything above a 2 in a puppy wouldn't that wouldnt worry me to much if the dogs clinically healthy at this age.
Weight gain should also be slowing at this age so thats pretty normal.

If you worried I'd change to a different complete food, up the carbs -add grains-contrary to popular belief most dogs do fine with grains, drop the protein levels, change away from fish to a different protein source and increase overall calorie intake by increasing amount of daily meals and overall calories but feeding a smaller portion at each meal.

Hypoallergenic food may not be needed unless she had other gi and food intolerance signs.

Personally I'm not a grainfree fan at all and wont feed it to my dog.
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I think that she would be a 2 body condition score. thankyou for the advice re foods. What sort of protein levels might we be talking about here ? 20%?
 
Can you take a photo of her from above? I’d say RC is not the best thing to feed. Imo, it‘s not the best quality. If she’s pooing loads, obviously she’s not processing what she‘s getting. Possibly, she’s not doing well on the fillers in that food. I don’t personally see the point of beet etc. If you want to increase the protein, you could consider raw, but I agree with pp that you shouldn’t change the food just now until she settles.

I wonder if you could decrease her exercise for a wee while? I know 6 months is an age when you should be getting them out and keeping them stimulated, but I think she‘s burning off what she eats. My two were like rakes as babies, now it’s a fine balance of exercise v food due to medical issues so we can’t run them for miles. Food, therefore, is a fine balance.
 
I'd go 20 to 22 percent protein at that age depending on the food...but to be honest if she has shes a score of 2 I wouldnt worry to much at all...I'd be happier to see that then a bcs of 4 at this age.

Collies are ment to be slim dogs and its not abnormal for a 6 month old to be on the light side of the scale...I'd argue normal for most of them actually.

The only reason I'd change food/food schedule is that 6 times daily is a lot of poo so it may not be the ideal food for her or shes not digesting it well if getting above the rda over two meals.
Mine usually goes 2, sometimes 3 times daily....and I'm feeding royal canin at the moment.

Not every food suits every dog. Feed the indivdual.
 
Get the vets to do a full blood panel on her, if they aren't doing so already.
As someone said above, fish based foods are usually low fat which isn't ideal for a skinny pup. I'd try for a lamb based diet that is easy to digest.
Raw is a good way to go but not without it's issues and some dogs don't put the right weight on with it.
Hope she's feeling better asap xx
 
I am a.little worried about the exercise amount first off..800plus growth plates to be mindful of and 5mins per day per month of age.you can exercise mentally too,not all physically and before anyone shoots me, I have 2 specific breeds of very high energy dogs that make Belgian malinois look like sleepy tortoises..one with adhd and from military working lines so I definitely appreciate the struggles you may face with bc energy.

I would switch to raw.80/10/10 and start it as described by the BARF UK puppy intro guidelines(files on fb page and tonnes of incredibly knowledgeable helpful admins to guide you) tripe is the game changer for tricky weight gain without fizz so you won't ad to the problem.i nursed my late boy thru B12 deficiency for 2.5 yrs and tripe and sweet potato were life saving.
If you can't face raw, I would at least try adding tripe...but feel you won't regret it..I have never met anyone that has...best of luck
 
Aru said:
I'd go 20 to 22 percent protein at that age depending on the food...but to be honest if she has shes a score of 2 I wouldnt worry to much at all...I'd be happier to see that then a bcs of 4 at this age.

Collies are ment to be slim dogs and its not abnormal for a 6 month old to be on the light side of the scale...I'd argue normal for most of them actually.

The only reason I'd change food/food schedule is that 6 times daily is a lot of poo so it may not be the ideal food for her or shes not digesting it well if getting above the rda over two meals.
Mine usually goes 2, sometimes 3 times daily....and I'm feeding royal canin at the moment.

Not every food suits every dog. Feed the indivdual.
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thankyou
 
I am also happy with a body score condition of 2 for a puppy/young dog, to be honest I am happy with a body condition score of 2 for any dog as I feel we are so used to seeing overweight animals that we body condition score accordingly-hope that makes sense.
I would say most people would body condition core all our dogs as a 2, but coats are good, they are bright and healthy and happy to so 4-8 hrs (occassionaly longer) on the hill on a days gathering, it's seldom you see the younger dogs just pootling along even when there are no sheep to work.
 
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