Foot and Mouth - can someone please explain.......

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keeperscottage

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The foot and mouth outbreak of 2001 turned my then 11 year old daughter into a vegetarian, and she has remained 100% veggie ever since. I haven't eaten beef, venison or lamb for well over 20 years simply because I cannot bear the thought of eating animals. My ex-husband was a Principal Environmental Health Officer (he now lives in NZ) and I remember him telling us how in certain parts of the world, foot and mouth is endemic and the affected animal contracts the disease, recovers and is subsequently immune. If this is the case, why can't animals suffering with foot and mouth be quarantined, allowed to recover, and save everyone a lot of money and heartbreak? My ex- always thought the measures of 2001 were an overkill (no pun intended!) and my daughter and I have to admit that we cannot understand why such measures have to be taken if the animals recover quite quickly. We live in a rural farming community and my daughter being veggie is looked upon with a certain amount of amusement from very many of the locals! Some "professional" responses would be most appreciated!
 
We had a chap in the shop where I work today who used to work on a vast dairy farm in Saudi (they milked thousands of cattle each day!). He was saying that they quite often had cattle with F & M, they were removed from the herd for a few weeks, treated and usually made a full recovery. Before anyone shoots me down, this is just whathe said, I am not saying it is true but cannot see why he would make it up.
 
It's true. It's endemic in many countries.

However, a recovered cow/sheep etc will never be quite as fit as one who's never been exposed to the disease so the quality of milk/meat is always compromised, as is fertility.
 
Okay, so the quality of meat (ugh!)/milk/fertility is compromised...........but do we need such extreme measures to prevent the spread of this disease? (By the way, daughter may be veggie and I only eat game/fish, but we are hunt supporters, and my daughter hunts regularly!)
 
I remember reading before that recovered animals can still suffer, from chronic lameness, heart disease, mastitis and other things (I did an essay on this last year but I've forgotten most of it lol). I think its mostly financial reasons though - a small sterile cow isn't worth much I'd imagine
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The animals survive and recover and are mainly fine afterwards
the REAL reason for the killing and slaughter from DEFRA and why they are loathe to vaccinate is MONEY - absolutely NOTHING to do with risk to humans or animal welfare

If we have F&M some of our meat exports won't happen because the recipient country won't buy the meat - my reaction - so what - means we then don't need to import crap meat from Argentina and Ireland and instead have british beef on our shelves

the other reason is the same as for bird flu - it is 'feared' that joe public - muppet - led by the nose by the "Sun" - won't buy british meat or poultry if it is vaccinated

so instead they persist in going round and slaughtering animals by the million

looks like chickens coming home to roost this time though - the GOV. have caused this outbreak as even if their Pirbright lab hasn't leaked the virus (which is the one from the 1967 F&M outbreak) then they've given it to Meriel next door and they've leaked it

either way the Gov is to blame but they have got slippery sloping shoulders.....
 
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import crap meat from Argentina and Ireland

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I think you'll find Irish meat is produced to the same standards as British meat, perhaps research is in order before you make ignorant generalisations?

I fail to see how you can compare meat from a country with endemic FMD and heavy use of growth promoters, antibiotics and the rest with an EU regulated industry

Tw*t
 
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import crap meat from Argentina and Ireland

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I think you'll find Irish meat is produced to the same standards as British meat, perhaps research is in order before you make ignorant generalisations?

I fail to see how you can compare meat from a country with endemic FMD and heavy use of growth promoters, antibiotics and the rest with an EU regulated industry

Tw*t

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Totally agree

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because it is on the shelves and I look at both the UK product and the Irish - and there is a far higher content of sinew and ligament and fat in the Irish product - this may be down to the supermarket but it's still crap being sold to the consumer
 
if your in Britain, buy British, thats what we do

when in Ireland, buy Irish, thats what we do

i blame the consumer
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Nothing wrong with irish meat in my experience,
 
EU regulated industry - hehehehehehehehe

we have the civil service in the UK 'gold plating' every EU directive, including that for farming.

We are THE most over regulated and over scrutinised farming country in the EU - WAY over and above EIRE

NO other EU country abides by the stupidity of the EU regulations in the way that the UK does - and yet - do the ther countries get diseases - NO NONO

in Portugal - you want to move a pig from A to B - you throw it in the back of an unMOTed, untaxed and unroadworthy landrover and drive it up the road (and yes - I do know a lot of portugese farmers....)

In France - if they asked the french farmers to put up with the paperwork our farmers have in the UK the french would be blockading the motorways with their tractors

if you aren't in farming then don't assume things....
 
The big trouble with F & M is that it is very contagious, so if you have one ill, most of the herd will be ill as well. So you have a herd of animals all not thriving. Some cattle suffer terribly, they get blisters on the tongues and can't eat, and in the 2001 outbreak adult sheep were looking OK but when lambs were born they all died as the F & M affected the heart.

It is OK to nurse a couple of sick animals, but when the whole herd/flock is ill you are looking at economic disaster. I daresay that UK/EU animals have no natural immunity, so they would get F & M easily if infected.

It is economic, but it has been decided that the EU must remain free of F & M.
 
And we experience the exact opposite here, of course the "best" is kept at home. Just like Germany isn't selling us their top Hannoverians...only the "cheaper" stuff
 
Whilst F&M questions are being answered... if we (as a country) vaccinated all our susceptible animals against it, would that have the same negative effect as patches mentioned above as on animals which have recovered from a live strain of the disease?

If vaccinated, would susceptible animals be more likely to transmit the disease than non-susceptible animals (e.g. people, horses etc)?
 
I was working for a vet during the 2001 F & M outbreak (which, mercifully, did not affect us down here) and I asked him the very same question. He said that theoretically there is no reason NOT to vaccinate but that would mean that an animal could carry the disease without showing any symptoms. That's also the reason that the UK is no longer technically rabies-free. The advent of pet passports, rabies vaccinations and pets being taken abroad for holidays means that they COULD become infected but because of being vaccinated not show any symptoms. I would also venture to suggest that F & M is probably a lot more prevalent abroad with farmers in the back end of the some of the less developed countries not even being aware of what their animals are suffering from other than just being "ill". With no official bodies like DEFRA etc . . who would know?
 
I think all the animals in the RZ should be culled to prevent further spreading. The government can compensate the farmers in the smal zone rather than waiting and having a mass epidemic and loads of farmers effected
 
I actually worked on the 2001 outbreak. I worked on alot of the infected premises & it was the best thing for the cows that had it that I saw.
A friend gave their sheep some homeopathic remedies, they were in with some dry cows which didn't get it. They were the last to be blood tested in our area. The results showed the sheep had had F&M the cows hadn't. But all were culled.

Now this is going to be gross for some.

One particular farm I worked on with F&M
the vets were looking at the mouth of the cows to check for lesions. After a while I was to check & just call them over from 3 meters away if found anything.

1 cow I pulled the tongue out of the side of the mouth to look at lessions when I gently rang my finger across the tongue the surface just peeled away like nothing.
There is no way this cow could of eaten, so it was in it's best interest to be destroyed.
Another cow I went to do the same to (on same farm) & when I grabbed the tongue gently my fingers just went straight theough it like soft cheese & came away in my hand.

So I have no doubt that these animals were better of dead as they would of just starved to death.

I don't agree with killing non infected animals thought that is just plain wrong.

I doubt that the goverment will allow it to get anywhere near the scale it did last time as I am certain that that would be the end of the goverment.


It is rife in France but they just cal it JCB disease as if they have one with it they just get the JCB out dig a hole & stick it in.
Where as us British Farmers but up a big banner saying look here I have F&M.
I am not having a dig at British Farmers as I am one & all my friends & family & we were greatly hit by it last time & I sooo do not want that to happen again.

Has for eating meat I eat all British Meat I can!!!!
 
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The animals survive and recover and are mainly fine afterwards
the REAL reason for the killing and slaughter from DEFRA and why they are loathe to vaccinate is MONEY - absolutely NOTHING to do with risk to humans or animal welfare


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Sorry, following on from previous reply; how is it cheaper to slaughter hundreds of thousands of animals and compensate farmers than vaccinate???
 
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