Foot balance query & wwyd?

[emfen1305]

A bit of background: 13 year old Cob diagnosed with degeneration of navicular bone in RF (suspected since birth or v. young age) discovered using MRI last September after showing 1/10th lame on hard ground (took him for a poor performance work up). Also slight strain of DDFT and synovitis in both coffin joints so had sterioid injections, shockwave and Tildren and remedial shoes - not bar shoes, they have a metal plate across the middle (really not sure there is a name for them!). He had a quiet winter then brought fully back into work (flatwork and hacking with the odd fun ride chucked in) in January and been going from strength to strength until today when he trotted up 1/10th lame again on the concrete for the physio (physio comes every 3 months for my benefit rather than his!) - absolutely fine in the arena and no other new issues just this slight head bob that switched between RF and LF but the general reluctance to trot up on the hard was more telling than the head bob.

He was shod on Saturday and something is just not sitting right with me - in my totally none expert opinion, I felt he had left the toe a little long which means the supportive plate across the middle is sitting towards the point of the frog rather than higher up so not really sure what exactly it is supporting, I feel his heel isn't being supported and I am concerned that the heel height differs (seems have left the outside heel on both feet around an inch higher) - would there be a reason for doing this? I have obviously messaged him since I noticed the difference but no reply and before I set off in a blind panic about everything that could be wrong, I was wondering if some people with foot balance knowledge would know if this is normal or good practice? I have also approached another farrier for a second opinion because I appreciate photos do not tell the full story. Hopefully the photos work! Please be kind, I am doing my absolute best for this horse. I am not set up for barefoot rehab and would struggle on my current yard, I know that is the done thing for navicular but he has been fine up until now so just wondering if my farrier has just not got it right this time and that's enough to just to make him uncomfortable.

View attachment 53166View attachment 53167
View attachment 53168View attachment 53169

 

[Michen]

I’d check if he lands level. Take a slow mo video. Would rather have a horse that looked to have an imbalance but landed evenly than the other way around.


But tbh, if I were you I’d take the shoes off and barefoot rehab- see what the feet want to do.

 

[ester]

The photos aren't working. Realistically usually with shoes + navicular you are masking the issue and can't do that forever so it might not be that your farrier has done anything different.

 

[emfen1305]

Yes I know shoes ultimately won’t fix it, it’s just happened since shoeing hence the second opinion.

Really feeling lost about the barefoot vs shoes, I’ve done all of the reading and then I’ve tried to take him barefoot before, I got a trimmer, boots and sorted the diet and just couldn’t get him comfortable even in the field and after 3 months I just couldn’t keep going with it and I’ve got an even less ideal set up this time. I can’t afford to send him to Rockley and the closest track system wouldn’t work long term.

 

[Mule]

Yes I know shoes ultimately won’t fix it, it’s just happened since shoeing hence the second opinion.

Really feeling lost about the barefoot vs shoes, I’ve done all of the reading and then I’ve tried to take him barefoot before, I got a trimmer, boots and sorted the diet and just couldn’t get him comfortable even in the field and after 3 months I just couldn’t keep going with it and I’ve got an even less ideal set up this time.0 I can’t afford to send him to Rockley and the closest track system wouldn’t work long term.

Mine was the same, 5 months and not comfortable in the field) and tbh he is much happier again now that he is shod. His hooves improved enormously when he was barefoot and there is no doubt in my mind that he will have lameness problems down the road because of his hoof quality, if the shoes stay on long term. I will take them off for a couple of months over winter as i always do but his quality of life is so much better when he is shod. I'm now of the opinion that id rather him have a shorter but happier life. I wouldn't have left him go 5 months if I'd known earlier how uncomfortable he was. I suppose what I'm saying is i can understand why you'd be cautious of trying barefoot again.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Yes I know shoes ultimately won’t fix it, it’s just happened since shoeing hence the second opinion.

Really feeling lost about the barefoot vs shoes, I’ve done all of the reading and then I’ve tried to take him barefoot before, I got a trimmer, boots and sorted the diet and just couldn’t get him comfortable even in the field and after 3 months I just couldn’t keep going with it and I’ve got an even less ideal set up this time. I can’t afford to send him to Rockley and the closest track system wouldn’t work long term.

Can't see the pictures but I would take the shoes off, I have 1 horse that has navicular and he transitioned easily barefoot, my other horse is now also barefoot because he won't tolerate shoes banged on his feet, he took 9 months to be totally comfortable to ride without boots, I suppose what I am trying to say is some just take time to adjust, 3 months is not that long for barefoot rehab really.

Just wanted to add my horse that was uncomfortable had his shoes off then we didn't trim for 2 months we just let them do what they had to do, he wouldn't have coped at all with immediate trimming some just don't, I think rockley do the same they just leave them.

 

[ester]

Probably the best nail on shod option
http://www.equinefootclinic.co.uk/EFC_Pad.html

I know Ihatework used them on one of hers quite successfully. If I had to shoe in your situation that's what I'd try.

 

[holeymoley]

I can’t see the photos but they sound very unbalanced with there being 1 inch of a difference on the outside. Would be good to see the photos to see exactly what it’s like.

 

[emfen1305]

 

[ester]

He looks a bit short shod to me and is the toe dumped or is it bullnosed? ycbm is better than me at them.

 

[emfen1305]

Sorry the photos are so giant - it's either tiny thumbnails or massive photos! They aren't the best angle, I should have tried to angle the foot down and some slow mo walking videos would probably be good too!

 

[holeymoley]

So the imbalance isn’t actually that bad from what I can see, if you were to take photos from the front I think there may be a bit of imbalance and slight flare but that’s just a guess.

The heels are a bit crushed, for a navicular horse I’d want more heel support. I don’t actually think they’re that bad, but it does have the potential for the toes to grow long and the heels to get under run.

 

[ester]

I do agree with HM about the balance, the bit that stands out to me is the difference in the size of the heel bulbs in the last pic, but am not entirely sure if that is in part down to the angle.

 

[emfen1305]

Yes you're right HM he's got flare on both however he did start growing his hoof at a new angle when the new shoes were put on which I was told to expect so not sure if that's the cause. In terms of heel support, could this be achieved with shoes? I feel that there needs to be more shoe further back but not sure if that would help. I wanted to avoid bar shoes as I've heard they are not good long term and can make things worse so felt this was a compromise. I have him done religiously every 5 weeks but if it isn't be done right or if the shoe isn't offering him the support then I need to change something!

 

[holeymoley]

I’m not particularly knowledgeable about navicular, laminitis is more my experience. My friend had a huge 18hh warmblood with navicular and a fabulous farrier that kept him sound. He definitely had more ‘shoe’ at the heel, I can’t for the life of me remember the term for it though, it might be a lateral extension?. He wore over reach boots all the time and occasionally lost a shoe but he kept sound much more of the time in comparison to the amount of times he lost a shoe. Your guy has hardly any heel, a lot of farriers like to pop wedges and all sorts in, I’m not sure how that would interfere with the navicular but for heels like that I’d be inclined to take the shoes off and let him grow his own for a little bit before re fitting shoes.

 

[IrishMilo]

So the imbalance isn’t actually that bad from what I can see, if you were to take photos from the front I think there may be a bit of imbalance and slight flare but that’s just a guess.

The heels are a bit crushed, for a navicular horse I’d want more heel support. I don’t actually think they’re that bad, but it does have the potential for the toes to grow long and the heels to get under run.

All of this. There's flare to the front and the shoe branches need to be much further back if you want to keep him in shoes. Personally I'd take them off.

 

[emfen1305]

The farrier is coming back tomorrow so i'll have a chat with him about some lateral extensions or something to support the heel, at least for now, i'll need to have more of a think about barefoot, like I said, I am really not in a good set up for it at the moment and can't go through what I went through last time!

 

[ester]

Do mention the EFC pads to him too and am sure IHW would speak to you about them too.