Foot sore?

Horseback Rider

Horseback Rider

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My TB is getting very footy lately, I know the ground is hard so we are just walking out but even on tracks where there are a few stones he is really footy & pottery and yesterday after being shod he was worse.

Is there anything I could give him to help ?
 
If he is out 24/7 take him off the grass during the day. If he has restricted grazing already, restrict it more, none if necessary. Give him 25 gramms a day of magnesium oxide.

Stand him up on concrete for 15 minutes and watch him - does he gently rock his weight from one foot round to another every few minutes? If he does, I'll eat my hat if your horse does not have the early stages of laminitis. If he doesn't I still think the same!
 
^^^^ What she said.

Dont believe the 'TB's can't get laminitis' story, I have a TB who's very sensitive and is off grass completely for most of spring, summer and autumn.
 
It's not that I don't think TB's can get Laminitis - It just hadn't crossed my mind, I have spent the last 2 years trying to get weight on him and he is by no means fat or overweight.

His feet have never been that great.

Farrier did comment that there was some bruising on his feet when he shod him,so thats why I thought he was foot sore ??

Have called farrier and he is going to come back out and look at him tomorrow, so fingers crossed it is just the hard ground ;-)
 
Where were the bruises - in a crescent shape around the point of his frog? If so, that was a lami episode 6-8 weeks ago.

I have one off grass now who is a lightweight with no fat on him. I had an eventer get full blown laminitis when eventing fit. It is not restricted to horses who are fat. I even know of a thin two year old who got a full blown attack last year.

There is no such thing as "not the type".

It's not "just the hard ground". If it was, every horse with your horse's body type, weight and breeding would also be footie because of the hard ground and they aren't. I have three horses on the same ground. One can eat grass 24/7, one can only eat it overnight and one can't eat it at all. Your horse's feet have probably "never been that great" because his diet is not optimum for him to produce good feet.

Take your horse off the grazing and I'll bet you that his footiness is completely different in less than a week.

Do nothing with his diet at your peril - if he is footie after shoeing you are getting a massive warning sign that he isn't right.
 
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At the risk of repeating myself ^^^^^ what she said again.

My TB is never fat, he's too much of a stress head to get fat! When shod he was generally a complete git for most of spring / summer, he would occasionally take the odd step that didn't look right but it was only once his shoes came off that we saw just how footy the grass made him, now his grazing is restricted he's no longer a git as he's no longer in constant low level pain.

Just something else to note, IME TB's don't necessarily need corn ie mixes or cubes to keep their weight mine (and the 4 or 5 others i've had) have all done very well on a fibre only low sugar (so foot / lammi friendly) diet, if the grass is causing your boy problems then cutting as much sugar as is possible from his diet will help. :)
 
Ditto MaggiesMum and CPTRayes. I don't believe in 'the type' either.

Lami has causal factors. Some of these are known and some are not; obesity and IR are well known triggers, but are not the only ones.

I have clients with mixed herds. It is usually the skinny TB in the mixed herd which has some level of lami and not the native pony/other.

My own WBx is very prone but her condition score is under 3 most of the time. Her trigger is very much linked to gut disturbance and/or sugar, but not being overweight.
 
Massive amounts of even well soaked forage and a higher protein/oil based feeds in my experience work better for getting weight on difficult TBs and WBs all the oats and sugar in the world. Also a lami friendly diet.
 
Thanks all for your info

He is off the grass and farrier is coming tonight to have a look and then vet if needed.

I feel awfull for not noticing this sooner but thinking back to my years around horses I have only ever seen one horse WITH Laminitis never the weeks before..... so hence I didn't see this coming.

Feed wise he never has mixes cereals etc as they don't agree with just unmollassed chaff & some sugar beet in the winter if needed + ad lib hay.
 
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Horseback Rider said:
Thanks all for your info

He is off the grass and farrier is coming tonight to have a look and then vet if needed.

I feel awfull for not noticing this sooner but thinking back to my years around horses I have only ever seen one horse WITH Laminitis never the weeks before..... so hence I didn't see this coming.

Feed wise he never has mixes cereals etc as they don't agree with just unmollassed chaff & some sugar beet in the winter if needed + ad lib hay.
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Well done in taking action! Don't beat yourself up, there are vets and farriers who will tell you that he doesn't have early laminitis, but most of us barefooters will probably tell you that he does!

The great thing is that you listened. If coming off grass doesn't make him better then we can all eat our hats but at least no harm will have come to him. I doubt that you'll need a vet, you've caught it nice and early. Let us know?


(you might like to know that yeast and charcoal seem to be helping two of mine quite a lot at the moment.)
 
I'm dittoing all the above. My barefoot TBx is always footy at this time of year. Good for you feeding low sugar - always read the labels and get an analysis if it is vague info.
I'm soaking our haylage, YO could only get early cut this years so I'm soaking for 2 hours minimum. The water left looks like Guiness it's that syruppy looking so soaking could hasten his recovery - O and use Speedibeet and rinse it once it's been soaked to get any sugar residue out.
Good luck and well done for caring enough about your horse (many others just don't notice and carry on riding a very sore horse - even when you tactfully point it out to them):rolleyes:
 
muff747 said:
Hi cptrayes - how do you feed the yeast and charcoal, I would like to try that for my boy - I can't get him comfy at the mo?
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I feed it in a small bit of sugar beet. I am amazed they eat the "crushed coal", but they don't notice it's there at all. They usually love yeast.

The charcoal is from Finefettlefeeds

http://www.finefettlefeed.com/products/

The yeast I am using is in Naf Haylage Balancer but if you do not need the vits and mins then either feed 50g of Brewers Yeast (eBay, sold in "test" quantities) or yea-sacc (BarefootBasics, direct or eBay), which being a live yeast not a dead one you only need 15g of.

On another thread a gut enzyme specialist told us that yeast suppresses an inflammatory agent in the gut and activates an anti-inflammatory - check my previous posts to find it, it's in a thread about Brewer's yeast. I know it works because a month after I stopped using it (due to quality problems in the supplier of 25kg sacks) a horse of mine who has been rock crunching for over two years suddenly started feeling stones,and has stopped again now he is on a live yeast.

The activated charcoal binds with "nasties" in the gut and sweeps them out. It's been known of for donkey's years for a medication to stop wind and bad breath in humans and dogs! Someone has suddenly realised that it works in horses too. I know it had an effect because I watched an extremely grass-sensitive horse I have change day by day when I put him on it.

As a precaution I now have three horses on both. The extremely sensitive one is currently off grass but on adlib quanitities of unsoaked and very rich haylage (20kg a day, he's eating. I know he's a big and growing boy but !!!) The footie one is rock stomping. A third who was getting quite porky appears to have slimmed down, probably much more to do with correct water balances than any fat, in the time period involved.




ps dead yeast - been used for making beer/lager and is completely dead when fed but still has the good effects and also full of b vits which are good for feet if your horse is deficient

live yeast - hasn't had anything made with it, grown for purpose, live and can therefore change when in the gut. Apparently it doesn't multiply, but it has the beneficial effects in smaller quantities.

My preference is Brewers yeast if only I could get a consistent supply, because its cheap and it also has a fly repellent effect. Slightly itchy horses can stop rubbing their tail when they are on it too.
 
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So the farrier came last night and tested all 4 hooves with the testing thingies ? anyway there is slight bruising on one front toe so he took the shoe off and filed it down a bit so that there is not as much pressure on it. Other than that he seems fine ????
 
Glad he seems ok but I personally just to be abosolutely safe I would still have him off the grass during the day at least and restricted grazing during the night with soaked hay.

Its up to you and I am sure you will continue to monitor him but if it were me I would be thinking that vets and farriers can miss things, they are only human so I would rather be safe than sorry also he might enjoy the cool of a stable and a break from flies??

Hope he is ok xxxx
 
Did you mean the farrier said he seems fine, or he did the filing down and now you think he seems fine?
If it's the former, I'd go with what cptrayes said in a previous post - vets and farriers don't always recognise it in early stages if it is not obvious.
Are you fairly new to horse ownership, I mean few years owning? I was very unconfident in my own judgement about my horse for years and believed everything the vet and farrier said implicitly, until I got the confidence to rely on my own instincts.
You are the ONLY one who can judge if he is ok or not, you know your horse better than any professional, trust your instincts before putting him back out.
TBH I think there are many horses suffering with low grade lami at the moment but it seems like it's only me that notices. :eek: Because we had the drought and now it keeps raining and sunshining, the grass is lethal - BUT as I just said above, the owner is the best person to judge if their horse is ok or not. Good luck. Oh and don't believe the feed merchants either!!;)
 
Horseback Rider said:
So the farrier came last night and tested all 4 hooves with the testing thingies ? anyway there is slight bruising on one front toe so he took the shoe off and filed it down a bit so that there is not as much pressure on it. Other than that he seems fine ????
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I don't understand. He's not fine, is he? He's footsore. A slight bruise in one front toe does not seem to fit the soreness you have been describing, which was bilateral, if not all four feet. If he was mine, I would keep him off grass. The absence of a reaction with testers does not necessarily mean that he does not have sore feet when he has his own weight (and yours) on them.
 
QUOTE: .."My preference is Brewers yeast if only I could get a consistent supply, because its cheap and it also has a fly repellent effect. Slightly itchy horses can stop rubbing their tail when they are on it too"........

I get my (powdered) Brewers Yeast from Holland & Barrett. Think they are on offer at the moment. I usually buy two at a time and lasts my three a month or so.
Not sure if it works that well for itchy horses, one of mine itches his belly but no other part of him - he wears a Snuggy Sweet Itch rug but I watched him itching with it on the other night when I was riding in the field next to him - grrrrrrr!!!! So annoying as it seems to affect the rest of him - I have a chiro out too regularly!!! I know when he is itching as he 'roughs up' his near hind fetlock and also grazes his sheath!!! Which in turn is soothed with aloe vera gel, also from H&B. I also feed the dog brewers yeast tablets from H&B and I also take a load of supplements for H&B!!! They do very well out of me. :)
 
Thanks LazyS but the dose rate for barefoot horses is 50 grammes a day. I think that's probably a whole bottle from H&B :) I used to buy it in 25 kilo sacks!
 
"The great thing is that you listened. If coming off grass doesn't make him better then we can all eat our hats but at least no harm will have come to him. I doubt that you'll need a vet, you've caught it nice and early. Let us know?"

So the farrier came did find a bit of a bruise and filled down the shoe so it would give a bit more room and release some of the pressure. He was on bute for 5 days and has been out at night on not much grass and in during the day wit a hay net. He seems to have dropped a bit of weight but was not overweight in the first place.

He doesn't seem to be footsore anymore so I am not sure what to do next ? should I call the vet ? Is there anyway they can diagnose lami if he isn't really showing any symptoms ??


After reading the warning post about a sudden onset attack on Lami that even the vet missed that has been posted today I am slightly scared to say the least. This is compunded by the fact that being a TB he does have a sensitive stomach and after an episode of colic last year I was advised that he shoudl always have something to munch on where possible !

Advice please
 
You can probably feed ad lib the hay/haylage if soaked for 24 hours to remove all the sugar, replace lost mineral and vitamins, most barefooties go for seaweed meal, about £18 for 10kg, make sure you get the edible sort not the horticultural stuff.
Sugar beet non molassed ie quick beet is plain and used as a carrier for vits and mins., mine gets four lots of stuff now .... seaweed meal, 25 ml, cooked linseed 50 ml, magnesium calmer [with yeast and other stuff] 25ml, and another 10 ml of limestone flour, biotin and a pinch of Extraflex with Rosehips [free sample!].
I might go back to Fast Fibre next year!
 
MrsD123 said:
You can probably feed ad lib the hay/haylage if soaked for 24 hours to remove all the sugar, replace lost mineral and vitamins, most barefooties go for seaweed meal, about £18 for 10kg, make sure you get the edible sort not the horticultural stuff.
Sugar beet non molassed ie quick beet is plain and used as a carrier for vits and mins., mine gets four lots of stuff now .... seaweed meal, 25 ml, cooked linseed 50 ml, magnesium calmer [with yeast and other stuff] 25ml, and another 10 ml of limestone flour, biotin and a pinch of Extraflex with Rosehips [free sample!].
I might go back to Fast Fibre next year!
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Thanks for the feeding info - he is not barefoot and would have to leave the magnesium out as he doesn't tolerate it very well.

Can anyone give any ideas on how best to actually diagnose it even if it is only low grade ??
 
Diagnosis of low grade laminitis is footiness, just where you started.

I doubt if it is necessary to soak your horse's hay, all of mine eat unsoaked hay or haylage and two of them go footie on too much grass, one badly so.

You don't need a vet now you have a sound horse. Footiness is WAY off a critical lami attack and if you keep testing for footiness on a patch of stony ground, you will know whenever you need to restrict him.

Well done HR, you really are listening both to your horse and to advice, you're a gem.
 
Surely won't this depend on the haylage, when cut, how much sugar it holds?
I had that tested and it came back 12% sugar so had to soak it as over the recommended 10% max. I haven't had further supplies tested as too expensive but I'm getting a bit of a connosieur of water that has had haylage soaked in it:p
The first lot of haylage was timothy cut in August last year, the colour of the water was like beer. Then they ran out of that so we had late cut rye grass, very pale colour so looked like it may have been rained on. The residue water was like pale ale. Then onto a different supplier, timothy June cut - the water was like cider. Now we have mid May cut this years rye grass - the water is like Guiness!!!:eek: I am soaking to be on the safe side;)
 
Hi Muff

I try whereever possible to feed Hay instead of Hylage as 1) It's Cheaper and a bale goes further 2) I try and keep my boys diet as natural as possible as he is a sensitive little soul who can suffer from tummy ache

I haven't been soaking his hay and tbh I am not sure it would make to much difference ?
 
Horseback Rider said:
Hi Muff

I try whereever possible to feed Hay instead of Hylage as 1) It's Cheaper and a bale goes further 2) I try and keep my boys diet as natural as possible as he is a sensitive little soul who can suffer from tummy ache

I haven't been soaking his hay and tbh I am not sure it would make to much difference ?
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Can make a huge difference. My uber sensitive mare turns out over night from 7 til 7ish, and with a bit of common sense* does just fine. Unsoaked hay cripples her and even haylage suitable for lamis is completely out of the question.

*If we have had high sugar conditions or she is getting porky I restrict the hours
 
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