Footie horses and magnesium

cptrayes

cptrayes

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I have just read in the paper that the newest treatment being tested in humans for type two diabetes is magnesium. Apparently it is used for insulin regulation and sugar digestion.

Lots of barefooters like me have been using magnesium for years, but never knowing why it works to stop barefoot horses being footsore. Now we do.

So for anyone with a footie horse, barefoot or not, 25 grammes a day of magnesium oxide (for a 600kg horse) would seem like a good idea.

MgO available from eBay, but cheapest from a farm supplies shop as calcined magnesite (crushed dolomite, calmag) 25kg for around £9.
 
How does it stop them being foot sore (i'm being dull) :confused:, my mare is footie at the moment and its only recently and not sure why. If this works then i'm definately ordering some tonight!!
 
It helps my barefoot TB and the hooves grow smoother with less minor event lines (mostly due to flushes of grass)
 
rosie-ellie said:
How does it stop them being foot sore (i'm being dull) :confused:, my mare is footie at the moment and its only recently and not sure why. If this works then i'm definately ordering some tonight!!
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The footiness is caused by the very earliest stages of laminitis, which is caused by a failure to digest carbohydrates properly, particularly the sugars in grass in spring and summer. The magnesium improves the use of the sugar and prevents the early laminitis.

If magnesium alone doesn't sort out your mare then try not letting her eat grass between about 10am and 8pm, which is when the grass has most sugar in it.

Hundreds of barefooters will tell you it works :) We've been feeding it for years but we never knew why!
 
Yes.....it can be used to help guard against insulin resistance. I give it to OH's mare and the highland- both could be at risk of lammi - both used to be shod and now aren't....didn't use it as a calmer but as a food supplement.

I'm sure I read it on the bag of a chaff feed I give to the (potential) fatties....
 
What about feeding cinammon? Does anyone else have any experience with feeding this spice?
My little shetland has been very pottery for the past 3 months, i have been feeding MagOx at the recommended dosage and although he wasn't getting any worse there was no real improvement. He's been in pony prison for the past 3 months on small quants of soaked hay and happy hooves.
I was getting a bit fed up with his lack of improvement and read an article on feeding cinammon to equines. So i started including cinammon just over 2 weeks ago and he is now sound and back out on grass.
 
Cinnamon can be useful for laminitis-prone horses and those with Equine Metabolic Syndrome. It is believed to help the cells to respond to insulin.

A compound found in cinnamon known as MHCP (methylhydroxy chalcone polymer) is thought to inhibit enzymes that block the insulin response procedure. So far the only studies have been carried out on humans but research has shown that cinnamon can significantly reduce blood sugar levels in people with type-2 diabetes (a condition linked to equine metabolic syndrome of horses which is caused by insulin resistance). In the trial, 60 people with type-2 diabetes were given either cinnamon or a placebo. After 40 days those eating cinnamon showed reduced fasting levels of serum glucose by as much as 29% (Khan et al 2003).

Cinnamon has also been shown to act as apowerful antioxidant, which can lead to additional health benefits for the laminitic horse.

Can be useful to aid weight loss when used alongside a restricted diet.
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^^^this is the magic bit^^^ seems to work on my little lad and his feed smells lovely.....
 
Pete Ramey (barefoot trimmer/farrier from the USA) wrote a very interesting article a few years ago which was on his website, starting to compare human diabetes symptoms with laminits in horses.

What would be interesting to confirm is the "old fashioned" diet of oats, bran and hay with the modern mixes and see what the magnesium amounts are
 
I have been using laminitis prone on one of my footie ponies!! could someone tell me if Magnesium would something to use as well or instead of.
 
Was already feeding MagOx - going to feed the cinnamon too now! Any ideas how much for a 13hh New Forest (about 350 kg)?

Oooh sorry - just seen feeding guidelines on the ebay photo of the packet.
 
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I feed magnesium in the form of the commercial supplement "Magnitude", which I think is straight magnesium oxide...I only feed a bit under 5g a day, because that's what the jar suggested for his weight, but I've seen others feed far more! Any suggestions for the source of the discrepancy? :confused:
 
spookypony said:
Any suggestions for the source of the discrepancy? :confused:
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It's all still anecdotal and a definitive trial has not been done in horses to determine exact beneficial amounts.

It would be a good study... maybe we could recruit pts an do an ad-hoc via HHO?

Also calmag is very bitter/sour... I tried and horse went off his food... cheap but unpalatable... maybe mix with cinnamon??
 
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Ive had to take my youngster off MagOx as it was giving her loose droppings, even at a low dose. It's taken 3 weeks to get her poos back to normal.

Am interested in the cinammon though, may have to look into that.

Interesting to here about type II Diabetes in humans and magnesium, wonder whether it would be recommended for patients who control the disease via diet alone, rather than the insulin/Metformin dependant people.
 
Pod77 said:
Ive had to take my youngster off MagOx as it was giving her loose droppings, even at a low dose. It's taken 3 weeks to get her poos back to normal.

Am interested in the cinammon though, may have to look into that.

Interesting to here about type II Diabetes in humans and magnesium, wonder whether it would be recommended for patients who control the disease via diet alone, rather than the insulin/Metformin dependant people.
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Control via diet is entirely possible!!! http://www2.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab005102.html

Not many patients complied as the diet was like a rabbits... the ones who finished "cured" their diabetes and after a follow up, those who carried on with diet & exercise kept it at bay. Those who reverted back to burgers and chips, well, had to take the drugs.

The interesting thing is that if you analysed the foods they were given, it was high in magnesium and other minerals!!!

As for loose droppings... may I recommend Happy Tummy charcoal... I tried it after a discussion on HHO!
 
calmag is bitter? I'll be outside sticking a finger in it tomorrow :) I've had no palatability issues but I have heard of an occasional one. It's worth trying first, though, I think, purely because of the low cost if your horse will eat it, because most seem to. I've had eight horses on it with no troubles at all and I currently feed 25 grams of it in a tiny bit of sugar beet and they wolf it down.

I'm going to be trying the cinnamon if my most troublesome one doesn't come right soon.
 
cptrayes said:
calmag is bitter? I'll be outside sticking a finger in it tomorrow :) I've had no palatability issues but I have heard of an occasional one. It's worth trying first, though, I think, purely because of the low cost if your horse will eat it, because most seem to. I've had eight horses on it with no troubles at all and I currently feed 25 grams of it in a tiny bit of sugar beet and they wolf it down.

I'm going to be trying the cinnamon if my most troublesome one doesn't come right soon.
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Yes it was unfortunately.. I bought on NHS on advice from Nic's book. He wouldn't touch it!

LOL - so I stuck finger in for a taste (I do tend to taste things 'cause I'm a bit mad like that) and it was horrible!
 
No wonder they think we barefooters are nuts. I tasted some sugar beet today to see how sweet it is. It's not.

And don't start me on inspecting poo quality!
 
cptrayes said:
No wonder they think we barefooters are nuts. I tasted some sugar beet today to see how sweet it is. It's not.

And don't start me on inspecting poo quality!
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Shhhhh...... don't go telling everyone about the poo inspections!!! :eek::eek::eek:

:D
 
Mine isn't barefoot although I've been toying with the idea of removing his shoes and so have been trying to get his diet right (though obviously trying to get the diet right anyway, just because...). He has always been footie over stones - walking along a smooth track that has lots of large, sharp stones on, he would literally almost fall over if he stood on one (front feet).

I've been feeding MgO for about 18 months and never seen any change/improvement in that, though it has improved other things. About a month ago I added a pre and probiotic to his diet (Protexin Gut Balancer) and the footiness has completely disappeared. The only thing I've changed in the last 6 months is to add the Protexin so it has to have improved his gut balance and therefore his feet. Now he strides out over those stones and doesn't even notice when he stands on one. So while MgO is great, I don't think it is a promise of a "cure". There are too many other factors at play.

Spookypony - I'd be feeding a lot more than 5g of MgO, even for a pony.
 
chestnut cob said:
Mine isn't barefoot although I've been toying with the idea of removing his shoes and so have been trying to get his diet right (though obviously trying to get the diet right anyway, just because...). He has always been footie over stones - walking along a smooth track that has lots of large, sharp stones on, he would literally almost fall over if he stood on one (front feet).

I've been feeding MgO for about 18 months and never seen any change/improvement in that, though it has improved other things. About a month ago I added a pre and probiotic to his diet (Protexin Gut Balancer) and the footiness has completely disappeared. The only thing I've changed in the last 6 months is to add the Protexin so it has to have improved his gut balance and therefore his feet. Now he strides out over those stones and doesn't even notice when he stands on one. So while MgO is great, I don't think it is a promise of a "cure". There are too many other factors at play.

Spookypony - I'd be feeding a lot more than 5g of MgO, even for a pony.
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ooo thanks for that... might give it a go....

Is it worth discussing the different types of footiness? It was being discussed on the barefoot forums about how some of it is metabolic, others more to do with gut imbalance, and some to do with sugars. This explains why one thing works for some and not others. It's all trial and error but I appreciate the sharing of info guys... :)
 
I've gone for a Feedmark Magnesium (and calcium) with herbal mix ie. "steady up" as it
1) was on offer at half price, and
2) I had used it previously and so I know it caused no problems at full recommended rate.

These supplements are becoming a whole diet in themselves though, I am not too happy to use straight chemicals with a known potential for scouring when I am starting a whole new regime, so far I have mixed the linseed meal with the biotin, some limestone flour,and minimal ExraFlex HA [free sample].
I have kept the seaweed meal and the Steady up separate.
Thank goodness he has eaten everything I have put in front of him so far, as he can be a bit marmite with his food.
The horse has good feet quality and has no known issues.
 
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I think with mine, he is a lami prone anyway (had it bad a few years ago and had LGL since probably) but since taking shoes off we've had 1 episode (wormer) and thats it. usually spring/summer a nightmare. So, despite me being over cautious and trying new things, it is because these lami's ARE so very difficult to balance. The detoxing every so often is the key for this particular case as his liver was nearly ruined on F4F!! I think Mg/Ca balance is important in this particular horses diet - lami link?
 
Ive been using Magnitude from Equine America for many years now as one possible safeguard against laminitis.

I read that commercial cattle feed has magnesium added to it to help prevent 'staggers' in cattle which although not the same as laminitis does have a similar gut type trigger.
 
cptrayes said:
calmag is bitter? I'll be outside sticking a finger in it tomorrow :) I've had no palatability issues but I have heard of an occasional one. It's worth trying first, though, I think, purely because of the low cost if your horse will eat it, because most seem to. I've had eight horses on it with no troubles at all and I currently feed 25 grams of it in a tiny bit of sugar beet and they wolf it down.

I'm going to be trying the cinnamon if my most troublesome one doesn't come right soon.
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tallyho! said:
Yes it was unfortunately.. I bought on NHS on advice from Nic's book. He wouldn't touch it!

LOL - so I stuck finger in for a taste (I do tend to taste things 'cause I'm a bit mad like that) and it was horrible!
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I have to report that I can't taste anything in calmag at all, not even chalkiness, though it isn't nice to have grit on your teeth :)

So Tallyho, either you have different taste buds to me, or your calmag was contaminated, or you had something else on your finger before you dipped it into the calmag -

but perhaps we'd better not ask what :) ?????
 
Calcined Magnesite it said on the bag... still got it as nothing will eat it. Pinkish/sandy colour?
 
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