Footiness

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horselover88

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Looking for some advice about my horses footiness.

My horse has always been a known shoe puller and it took a lot of time to get her feet in a good condition after I bought her.

She is fine on sand, all weather, concrete and other surfaces, except on stony surfaces, where now and again she will take an unbalanced step. She is NOT lame, sore or unsound (please no posts suggesting that she is, or that I should have her checked- both farrier and vet have looked at her). Her feet are fine in every other cirumstance, she has good muscle, is fit etc, she just does not always like the stones!

Has anyone else had a horse like this? I am reluctant to put shoes back on her, for fear of her pulling them off and doing more damage again, as she did before. To be honest she has been more sound, level and working correctly since having the shoes off, except this one thing.

Any supplements I can try, both dietary and oils or creams? Also, would hoof boots be a good idea, if so can anyone recommend somewhere to buy a decent pair for a good price? We are starting to hack out more which means meeting uneven surfaces and want to make sure that she is ok.

Thanks :)
 
What is she fed at present? You want to aim for high fibre, low starch / sugar.

Hoof boots would be a good idea, if you search you should find a few threads on here with various opinions on which are best.
 
Micronised linseed in her diet and better 4 hooves suppliment, cut out any sugar use hoof boots and pads if you know your going to be hacking over stony ground, i like cavallo boots, easy to put on and take off, the sports boots are more refined looking than the simple boot but whether they'll fit depends on the horses foot.
 
Is she walking quite normally but taking the odd step? If so, that's quite normal in my experience, its a bit like you or I walking across a stony path without our shoes, you may step on a little stone and go ouch, doesn't mean you're not sound or hurt though! Horses still feel things through their feet even when they're rock hard, as long as you're not getting lots of stone bruises and your horse is sound, I wouldn't be concerned about it.
If your horse is picking her way carefully over the stones though that would be a concern for me.
 
Thanks everyone!

Yes, she walks fine and then will just hit the odd stony patch where she is like 'ouch'. It is only her front feet, as she has always been barefoot behind and so these are much tougher. Once we are then on a dirt track or grass/sand, she is fine. She still walks on, with ears pricked forward and she is not reluctant to go forward, so usually I just ride her through.

We have previously been in a place where our arenas are either sand, or all weather and the hacking has been fairly soft terrain or roads, so I think the change means she needs to toughen up a bit to the new going.

I will check her diet and aim to switch to low sugar where I can.. Something I have read on other threads, but did not realise how much it can have an effect- except in lammi horses and ponies!

Also, I have been googling hoof boots all morning- NO IDEA what size she is! 16H Mare, of light/medium build, with very regular size feet... I am guessing she would be a 4 or 5... But I have no clue!!
 
Google the make of the boots and then click or enter size chart, there should be a guide to measuring the foot on that, dont just guess the size and dont think because shes a certain size in one make of boot she'll be the same in another make
 
Look at Renegades, Easyboot Gloves and Equine Fusions. Yes, they are expensive but they will last ages, especially if you only use them when you are doing stony rides.
 
A diet to included balanced mineral supplements particularly Magnesium Oxide.
ForagePlus or Pro balance [pro earth] and others are good examples, minerals need to be fed every day, 25-40gms as recommended.#
Micronised linseed will also help skin and hoof ........... min 25gms per day, maybe 50gms in summer and more in winter.
Non molassed feeds include Quick beet and also a few chaffs, and also Fast Fibre. The aim is to keep sugars in feeds below 5%.
Feeding a small feed to carry the minerals will also pay off in over all health, and reduces mud fever.
If you spend some time on Rockley Farm blogs you will see that a good foot has various characteristics, quality of hoof, thicker soles, frogs and heels developed for their original purpose well defined collateral grooves. The horse should walk out easily and land heel first.
 
The hooves must be measured as soon as the farrier has trimmed, they need to be a tight fit, Cavallo are cheapest and probably a good start point, but if you can improve diet and hack regularly on a hard surface [ tarmac] the hooves may self trim, and you only need farrier to rasp lightly every six weeks, or less.
Some horses never need hoof boots, but many don't.
 
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I'm currently using some Cavallo hoof boots on my mare's back feet (kindly lent to me by a friend). They are reasonably easy to get on although a little bulky, although it has to be said that I've never used hoof boots before so have no real point of comparison! My mare is fine in the school and on grass, so just using them to re-start our road work.

Our farrier has recommended biotin and keratin hoof hardener, hopefully progressing to shoes on the back once we have enough to nail on to.
Good luck :-)
 
Melody Grey said:
I'm currently using some Cavallo hoof boots on my mare's back feet (kindly lent to me by a friend). They are reasonably easy to get on although a little bulky, although it has to be said that I've never used hoof boots before so have no real point of comparison! My mare is fine in the school and on grass, so just using them to re-start our road work.

Our farrier has recommended biotin and keratin hoof hardener, hopefully progressing to shoes on the back once we have enough to nail on to.
Good luck :-)
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i do not agree with farrier ...............
 
MrsD, our of curiousity, why do you not agree with the above posters farrier, or were you referring to my own?

I will not be shoeing behind, no need to. Want to ultimately keep her barefoot if possible, as she has been so much more comfortable since having shoes removed, but she does need a bit of extra protection until she is use to the stony surfaces! I will take a look at her diet tonight, althought pretty sure I can only make minor changes RE sugar content, as it is already fairly low. Going to look at other balancers and hoof supplements too.
 
My response was gut reaction to any farrier who says biotin and Keratin, it is too simplistic. Years ago someone discovered biotin was an essential part of the diet, but things have moved on, and a well balanced diet with mineral supplementation will allow the horse to generate its own biotin, this is why you will see that a high fibre lo sugar diet with minerals all year round is the modern recommendation.

If you look at Rockley Farm blogs you will see all sorts of hooves, the horses are brought in for rehabilitation, and are fed high levels of minerals, plus a change in management.
Feeding is the key, for most horses, and while it it tempting to think that a hoof hardener will solve the immediate problem, most barefoot experts advise no lotion or potion, it was the idea that two items are key to the barefoot horse, I don't think they are.

The main source of sugars in summer is from grass especially lush grass, , I used to allow my boy access to soaked haylage in summer plus some tasty chaff and the minerals and non molassed sugar beet, I was able to manage him fairly easily as the YO would bring him in for me, so all I had to do was leave his hay in his stable so he was off grass for three or four hours per day.

I also micromanaged his exercise at first, walking on smooth tarmac for 20 / 30 minutes and longer every day, if they are on soft surfaces all the time the hoof does not have the opportunity to develop in the way nature intended. It all fitted in to his general fittening regime, he was a long time being rock crunching but I let him select his own route up stony tracks. He had good feet and had always had a quality feed in winter, but when he was fed every day even in summer, his skin, coat, and hoof quality improved significantly.
 
I agree with the views about lotions and potions. Diet is much more effective. I took on a mare who was already bf but had some stretch in the white line and was footy over stones. She'd been on a coarse mix with molasses, and stabled at night. With me she has only Kwikbeet and Pro Balance or just magnesium (I have tried both and seen no difference whichever I use, but both are better than no minerals!). I do add a handful of nuts so she will eat it but the amount is negligible. She is out 24/7 but goes on a "rubbishy" fell paddock in summer with lots of plants and poor quality grass.
She now has excellent feet, the farrier is always complimentary and her white lines are now spot on. HOWEVER, she was still footy over stones, and I had a suspicion that there was something else going on so she started a pergolide trial. As she definitely has PPID I now use boots in front, but the pergolide has really helped the other symptoms.
Not that I'm saying yours has anything wrong, OP, but it was interesting to see how many factors can come into play with hoof health!
 
Having a horse who is footy, I read this thread with interest.

Having had my horse on full livery for three years, I have always been guided by the YO/YM about feeding and trusted their judgement, however I am now of the opinion that some of my mares footiness could possibly be solved with a change in diet. She is on unmollased sugarbeet, bran mash (with added garlic and oil), a small amount of mollimix and some coarse mix. She is turned out for about 6 hours per day. The grass is good, but due to its use daily, I would say it has not had time to become lush sugary stuff! I ride mostly on sand and all weather surface, so I am going to build up her work on roads and then stony tracks.

Fingers crossed this really helps. :)
 
Good for you misskk88, I hope she does well. Just one thing to be aware of - well grazed grass can be as high, or higher in sugar, than the long stuff! Not trying to put a downer on your plans, just something to look out for. Make sure she has her minerals, especially magnesium.
 
misskk88 said:
Having a horse who is footy, I read this thread with interest.

Having had my horse on full livery for three years, I have always been guided by the YO/YM about feeding and trusted their judgement, however I am now of the opinion that some of my mares footiness could possibly be solved with a change in diet. She is on unmollased sugarbeet, bran mash (with added garlic and oil), a small amount of mollimix and some coarse mix. She is turned out for about 6 hours per day. The grass is good, but due to its use daily, I would say it has not had time to become lush sugary stuff! I ride mostly on sand and all weather surface, so I am going to build up her work on roads and then stony tracks.

Fingers crossed this really helps. :)
Click to expand...

Change of diet and working on varied terrain can help a lot. Also it is important to learn as much as you can about hoof balance and learn when your farrier or trimmer is doing a good job. I used to be on working livery at a yard where the whole yard had one farrier (arranged by the YO/YM), I noticed that many of the horses has quite appaling hooves. Often mismatched, many flared, a couple very boxy and with no hope of the frog ever contacting the ground. So when I moved away from that yard I felt it was a good time to change farrier, my new farrier is much better and as a result my pony's feet improved no end and we were able to do 3 hour hacks unshod. If you are still intending to move your horse to the Red Lodge area and would like my farriers number let me know.

Before change in farrier:

front2-4.jpg


After change of farrier - at this point his feet were still a work in progress

of-2.jpg
 
CobsCanDo said:
Change of diet and working on varied terrain can help a lot. Also it is important to learn as much as you can about hoof balance and learn when your farrier or trimmer is doing a good job. I used to be on working livery at a yard where the whole yard had one farrier (arranged by the YO/YM), I noticed that many of the horses has quite appaling hooves. Often mismatched, many flared, a couple very boxy and with no hope of the frog ever contacting the ground. So when I moved away from that yard I felt it was a good time to change farrier, my new farrier is much better and as a result my pony's feet improved no end and we were able to do 3 hour hacks unshod. If you are still intending to move your horse to the Red Lodge area and would like my farriers number let me know.

Before change in farrier:

front2-4.jpg


After change of farrier - at this point his feet were still a work in progress

of-2.jpg
Click to expand...
Yes, , in the first one, the hooves do not look right, the front line from the pastern right down to the ground should be continuous, not "broken" as in photo 1.
The heels must not be under run, another imbalance, and the acid test ....... horse walking out and landing heel first with well developed frogs and heels.
A good farrier is to be treasured.
 
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Thanks for the pictures. Nothing like seeing it to understand it... hopefully helps others on here too as it has me :)

I have always had my horse on a livery yard where my horse is held for farrier/vet and I have been lucky enough to have the support from staff etc. I worked with horses when I was young for many years before getting my own, but due to full time work and constraints, I must admit I was happy for YO/YM to organise since owning my own, as horses have been happy and sound under their guidance. However I am now at a point where I want to be more involved and to assess and have my own opinion. This comes from a change in personal circumstances, an increase in my own confidence and knowledge since owning my current horse. Don't get me wrong, my knowledge is far enough to keep my horse fit, healthy and sound and I am aware of how to manage basic problems, but I would like to know more on what things shouldnt look like, what are the warning signs besides the obvious ones etc etc. I want to become my own expert, for when I move to DIY/Assisted.

So for that, and excuse my ignorance (Like I said, I know what things should look like- I just don't know the terms!), what are under run heels?

To be fair, I think this forum can be accredited to my new found pair of hypothetical balls too. I am really impressed with a few members level of knowledge and support, and aspire to it! :D
 
How do I go about posting photos in this thread? Was gonna post some of my mares feet to see what you all reckon... I had a good look today again. Wanted an opinion on how they could be improved which may help her, along with diet changes etc :)
 
There is a horse health care management course online www.coursera.com it is week three, but you can catch up.
Under-run heels are what happens if you imagine the toes are pointing skywards, the angle at the back is very "flat" rather than being "upright". Typically the horse has "long toes"
The digital cushion will be firm and resilient when well developed.
Loads of stuff on Rockley Farm, bear in mind they are on re hab so some are extreme examples. I bought their book [ First Feet] which is very detailed, the explanations are excellent, but it takes a while to digest all the info [seaweed in feed is no longer advised].
 
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STRIKER said:
Why shoes on the back, the backs are not weight bearing and should manage fine barefoot
Click to expand...

I have yet to see a horse walk down the road without bearing weight in the hind limb. I would imagine you keep ponies. The majority of big horses will need some form of shoeing for them to perform well. I have a barefoot horse who is thriving, but I also have a horse who needs boots all round as he cannot be shod and he will never be able to go barefoot successfully.
 
misskk88 said:
How do I go about posting photos in this thread? Was gonna post some of my mares feet to see what you all reckon... I had a good look today again. Wanted an opinion on how they could be improved which may help her, along with diet changes etc :)
Click to expand...

To post a photo you need a photo already on the web (something like photobucket or facebook). Right click on the image and select "copy image location" (this is on a mac so a PC may be slightly different). Then in the reply box (you may need to select "go advanced") you click on the insert image button and paste in the location of your photo.
 
I think I've got the hang of this.....

View from front, bottom left is near fore and bottom right is off fore:



Bottom of off fore:



Bottom of near fore:



So judgements please :) I should mention her feet were so brittle and would just crumble away when I got her. They were badly misshapen and has cracks from shoeing. They are nowhere near perfect and she still takes to odd chip out but unlike before she stays sound, they don't disintegrate and she moves better. But I want to improve more if I can?!
 
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