Footy... Please explain barefoot

[erwina]

Have taken the shoes of my mare that was diagnosed with bilateral front lameness or sore feet or navicular, he did not say for definate which as he said he would need to do an MRI to find out for certain which it was. had a barefoot trimmer remove her shoes and trim her and it's been a week and all is going well so far I think. She was xrayed by my vet who said that she did not have any changes in her navicular bone but could be some hoof balance issues causing navicular syndrome. Sorry for the long drawn out explanation but if my horse was footy in walk what would it look like? And anyone have experience of going barefoot with a horse with navicular syndrome?

 

[PortuguesePony]

No direct experience with Navicular but I think, broadly speaking, the general consensus is that pulling shoes is the best thing you can do for them.

As for the visual behavioural symptoms of footiness – imagine yourself walking barefoot over sharp stones – that’s how it looks! Gingerly walking, not striding out, very tentative on feet and reluctant to move forwards freely, tight posture, stumbling over stones perhaps.

 

[Oberon]

Have taken the shoes of my mare that was diagnosed with bilateral front lameness or sore feet or navicular, he did not say for definate which as he said he would need to do an MRI to find out for certain which it was. had a barefoot trimmer remove her shoes and trim her and it's been a week and all is going well so far I think. She was xrayed by my vet who said that she did not have any changes in her navicular bone but could be some hoof balance issues causing navicular syndrome. Sorry for the long drawn out explanation but if my horse was footy in walk what would it look like? And anyone have experience of going barefoot with a horse with navicular syndrome?

I have sent you a pm with some generic advice.

This is a horse from my yard who has been sound and competing dressage since going barefoot in 2009.

http://www.progressivehorse.co.uk/html/shoko.html

There are a number of HHO members who have taken their navicular horses barefoot. A few went to Rockley Farm for their rehab.

 

[cptrayes]

I have done two and both came sound in a couple of months.

I think that you need to get your horse working - rest does always not do the job (though it does with some horses). If she isn't sound enough to ride, walk her out like a dog, preferably on smooth tarmac at first for half an hour at least every other day. Don't let two days go by without her walking out.

When she is sound to ride, do the same ridden. Introduce trot when she seems capable, and if at any stage she gets worse, back-track to the previous stage.

When she is sound in trot in straight lines, you could work in an arena too, but go easy on the circling and keep them big. Try and expose her to some rougher surfaces as time goes on as well, to condition her soles.

My experience is that you will need to keep up the every-other-day working for several months after she has become sound in order to be sure that she won't go backwards.

Use boots if she needs them, rather than give up working her, but use them as little as you can get away with.

Try to match her growth with the amount of work you do, so that your trimmer has nothing to trim. And if she grows odd flare/flanges/extensions then leave them be and see what shape she wants her feet to be. Horses which are foot lame for no obvious reason often grow very odd shaped feet when they come sound.

If your trimmer is not experienced with lame horses, then put her in touch with Nic Barker at Rockley to give her what guidance she can from a distance.

 

[HaffiesRock]

Try to match her growth with the amount of work you do, so that your trimmer has nothing to trim. And if she grows odd flare/flanges/extensions then leave them be and see what shape she wants her feet to be. Horses which are foot lame for no obvious reason often grow very odd shaped feet when they come sound.

If your trimmer is not experienced with lame horses, then put her in touch with Nic Barker at Rockley to give her what guidance she can from a distance.

Very interesting you say this. My horse went barefoot nearly 8 months ago and his feet are a very odd shape now. Much bigger than they were in shoes and much wider. Trimmer is happy with them and he is perfectly sound so they get left alone. x

 

[cptrayes]

Very interesting you say this. My horse went barefoot nearly 8 months ago and his feet are a very odd shape now. Much bigger than they were in shoes and much wider. Trimmer is happy with them and he is perfectly sound so they get left alone. x

Good trimmer you have HR

Horses that go unsound in shoes often seem to do that because they "disagree" with the foot balance that they are being given by the farrier. They normally turn out to have legs or even bodies that aren't really straight or symmetric.

When you take off the shoes, and match growth rate to wear rate, then the horse will shortly sculpt itself a foot which is a match for its own lack of symmetry elsewhere. The resulting feet can look very odd from the outside. Interestingly, once they have been barefoot a while, the sole shots of the front feet are surprisingly symmetrical, while the outside view can look quite bizarre!

My current rehab has four feet that very much look like they "need" a trim - there are flanges in various places on all of them - but he is sound after four years history of lameness, so what they look like is, to me and him, irrelevant

Like erwina's horse, his xrays were clear, twice, and his lameness was never explained and neither was it resolved with bar wedge shoes or with extensive rest. But two months with no shoes and a graduated program of work every other day - bingo !

 

[matthews]

one bit of advise is that to anyone having their horse go bare foot get a qualified farrier because bare foot trimmers do not posses the training or experience (3 weeks). it takes a farrier around 5 yrs to qualify. and when your horse as a serious problem you should be getting the best for your horse. it doesn't cost anymore. and what is a barefoot trim? a trim is a trim, it doesn't need a fancy name.

 

[tallyho!]

Yarp! Me, my horse went barefoot with navi in 2010. Best thing I ever bloody did for him and to think I wasted so much time in "remedial" shoes.... anyway, it worked for us. Not saying every single horse would have the same outcome but the anecdotal evidence is overwhelming.

I never expected him to make a full recovery so had plenty of time to give him and the hoof to do do whatever it needed to "do". I just turned him away and had a year in mind when I would start working him again. We were back competing within 6 months under the careful eye of my trimmer and with the help of a pair of boots. They weren't needed for very long.

Just be patient and see how it goes. Lots of very knowledgeable and experienced barefooters to help if you get a question.

 

[tallyho!]

one bit of advise is that to anyone having their horse go bare foot get a qualified farrier because bare foot trimmers do not posses the training or experience (3 weeks). it takes a farrier around 5 yrs to qualify. and when your horse as a serious problem you should be getting the best for your horse. it doesn't cost anymore. and what is a barefoot trim? a trim is a trim, it doesn't need a fancy name.

LMAO!!!!!!

Welcome to the forum... you may want to read a few threads before posting in future...

 

[Oberon]

one bit of advise is that to anyone having their horse go bare foot get a qualified farrier because bare foot trimmers do not posses the training or experience (3 weeks). it takes a farrier around 5 yrs to qualify. and when your horse as a serious problem you should be getting the best for your horse. it doesn't cost anymore. and what is a barefoot trim? a trim is a trim, it doesn't need a fancy name.

Can you explain why a qualified farrier dug into my horse's healthy hooves during a routine trim and left him standing in pools of blood?

I used a barefoot trimmer from then on (who studied considerably longer than 3 weeks ) and my horses have fine for the last 7 years under his care.

I think it negates your point when your post is ill-informed

 

[tallyho!]

Oh duh, how could i have been so stupid! Should have smelt a troll a mile away......... its my sinuses. Very blocked you know...

 

[Scarlett]

one bit of advise is that to anyone having their horse go bare foot get a qualified farrier because bare foot trimmers do not posses the training or experience (3 weeks). it takes a farrier around 5 yrs to qualify. and when your horse as a serious problem you should be getting the best for your horse. it doesn't cost anymore. and what is a barefoot trim? a trim is a trim, it doesn't need a fancy name.

Hmmmmm.

Farriers = my horses lame in shoes and barefoot.

Trimmer = sound horse on all surfaces out of shoes.

No brainer really.

 

[PortuguesePony]

one bit of advise is that to anyone having their horse go bare foot get a qualified farrier because bare foot trimmers do not posses the training or experience (3 weeks). it takes a farrier around 5 yrs to qualify. and when your horse as a serious problem you should be getting the best for your horse. it doesn't cost anymore. and what is a barefoot trim? a trim is a trim, it doesn't need a fancy name.

PMSL!!! TROLL ALERT anyone?! Granted there is good and bad in both worlds but COME ON?! Surely no one is actually stupid enough to believe that sort of generic spiel nowadays?! LMAO

And a "trim is a trim"? Ha ha ha ha! (That was a good one!) Te he he he he he

 

[tallyho!]

PMSL!!! TROLL ALERT anyone?! Surely no one is actually stupid enough to believe that of that sort of spiel nowadays?! LMAO

And a "trim is a trim"? Ha ha ha ha! (That was a good one!)

I know, I completely fell for it!!!!

 

[Scarlett]

Have taken the shoes of my mare that was diagnosed with bilateral front lameness or sore feet or navicular, he did not say for definate which as he said he would need to do an MRI to find out for certain which it was. had a barefoot trimmer remove her shoes and trim her and it's been a week and all is going well so far I think. She was xrayed by my vet who said that she did not have any changes in her navicular bone but could be some hoof balance issues causing navicular syndrome. Sorry for the long drawn out explanation but if my horse was footy in walk what would it look like? And anyone have experience of going barefoot with a horse with navicular syndrome?

I had something very similar. Can't say exactly what my mares issue was other then caudal heel pain/navicular syndrom caused by poor foot balance/soft tissue damage.

Pulled shoes and haven't looked back. She was much sounder after 8 weeks of walking in hand on as many surfaces as possible and adding the correct vitamins and minerals to her diet. She was getting put in foal anyway so has had a year off but in that time has grown new feet that are a different shape to how she was shod. She was trimmed today and her feet now look fantastic, and even heavily pregnant she is moving far better in front than she ever has.

All of mine are now b/f. I have one that I would never had said was 'lame' in front until I saw how he moves now.

 

[erwina]

Really appreciate all the replies, makes me feel like I could be on the right track with my mare. So need to start her on a forage balancer and maybe some micronised linseed too.

 

[PortuguesePony]

Sounds like a good plan to me. I used the Forage Plus Winter Hoof Balancer and really rate it.

IMO shoes only mask things and I don't actually believe they can fix anything, but mother nature can do that if she is allowed to and she is a wonderful thing.

I know, I completely fell for it!!!!

(Don't worry I wasn't mocking you, I was mocking "matthews"!)

 

[cptrayes]

one bit of advise is that to anyone having their horse go bare foot get a qualified farrier because bare foot trimmers do not posses the training or experience (3 weeks). it takes a farrier around 5 yrs to qualify. and when your horse as a serious problem you should be getting the best for your horse. it doesn't cost anymore. and what is a barefoot trim? a trim is a trim, it doesn't need a fancy name.

Hey, one dead horse and one 9 year old paddock ornament here if I took your advice Matthews. Mind if I don't ???

 

[Tiffany]

My farrier trims horses without shoes and they are fine so farrier or barefoot trimmer, it's what works for the horse.

IMO there are good and not so good of both out there, it's just a case of finding or being recommended a good one

 

[cptrayes]

My farrier trims horses without shoes and they are fine so farrier or barefoot trimmer, it's what works for the horse.

IMO there are good and not so good of both out there, it's just a case of finding or being recommended a good one

I completely agree with you Tiffany.

 

[erwina]

That's the hard part, living in Southern Ireland Barefoot is not something that was advised by my vet or farrier, infact my farrier said he had done all he could by putting natural balance shoes on her and after that he didn't know what to do with her. Barefoot trimmers are very thin on the ground and when I did get one he was from the north and it cost an arm and a leg to get him down. Don't think I'd be able to afford to keep having him down with that kind of cost on a long term basis. The support network for barefoot in the uk is great, and the availability of feed stuffs at reasonable rates is really good too, yes i can order it but its the delivery costs that kill the price of the feed. It's an up hill struggle but hopefully worth it in the end. Would live a rockley farm in ireland too.

 

[tallyho!]

Well, if you want another good resource there is the Phoenix horse forum. Www.phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org

There is a list of good books posted by Oberon I think that will help you.

 

[cptrayes]

That's the hard part, living in Southern Ireland Barefoot is not something that was advised by my vet or farrier, infact my farrier said he had done all he could by putting natural balance shoes on her and after that he didn't know what to do with her. Barefoot trimmers are very thin on the ground and when I did get one he was from the north and it cost an arm and a leg to get him down. Don't think I'd be able to afford to keep having him down with that kind of cost on a long term basis. The support network for barefoot in the uk is great, and the availability of feed stuffs at reasonable rates is really good too, yes i can order it but its the delivery costs that kill the price of the feed. It's an up hill struggle but hopefully worth it in the end. Would live a rockley farm in ireland too.

Erwina it will be stressful but you can do it on your own.

Can you get out on flat tarmac roads? If so, you can do as much work on the roads as will wear her feet down as they grow, as she knows for herself how to shape them, so trimming is not then an issue.

Your farrier can trim her if she grows too much hoof wall, just don't let him remove any sole or any frog except bits which are already hanging off!

If you post regular photos on phoenixhorse people will try to help you.

For food, you can use bran as a no-sugar filler, just be sure to add calcium carbonate to it. If delivery of supplements is too expensive then feed yeast (yea-sacc is used as a farm supplement for dairy cattle so it should be available) and calmag (farm suppplies shop, magnesium oxide sold for cows). A lot of us do fine with the cheapest pony cubes you can buy - we think because it's all cooked it digests more easily. Or feed straight oats if you need more calories. Keep her off daytime grass from now until October if you can.

Good luck!

 

[Dab]

PMSL!!! TROLL ALERT anyone?! Granted there is good and bad in both worlds but COME ON?! Surely no one is actually stupid enough to believe that sort of generic spiel nowadays?! LMAO

And a "trim is a trim"? Ha ha ha ha! (That was a good one!) Te he he he he he

alas not so. i was speaking to a farrier at the weekend who said that they had been on a trimmers course to see what all the 'fuss' was about...his words 'i've never heard so much *r** in all my life'...when questioned further it was clear he would never understand the connection between diet, sugars and balanced minerals and good hooves! absolutely couldnt get over not routinely trimming the frog and sole and making pretty!!!! thinks barefooters are a bunch of tree huggers...i didnt bite but walked away because there is no arguing with stupid!

 

[Lancelot]

OP, make sure you keep an open mind regarding the effects of grazing on your horse too. I had absolutely NO idea that my boy was sensitive until he went barefoot and then it was so obvious it couldn't be ignored!!
It doesn't have to be lush green fields before you see signs they are sensitive, I struggled to get my head around it at the start as the fields still looked bare but the grass was coming through and it's effects were soon felt.

 

[LucyPriory]

OP, make sure you keep an open mind regarding the effects of grazing on your horse too. I had absolutely NO idea that my boy was sensitive until he went barefoot and then it was so obvious it couldn't be ignored!!
It doesn't have to be lush green fields before you see signs they are sensitive, I struggled to get my head around it at the start as the fields still looked bare but the grass was coming through and it's effects were soon felt.

You are not alone, this can be the hardest part for many owners. And many don't equate the grass being short/sparse with the fact that this is because their horse is eating it. But as the grass just outside the field is anything from a few inches to a foot high the grass in the field has got to have gone somewhere - and that is usually the horse's stomach.

 

[tallyho!]

alas not so. i was speaking to a farrier at the weekend who said that they had been on a trimmers course to see what all the 'fuss' was about...his words 'i've never heard so much *r** in all my life'...when questioned further it was clear he would never understand the connection between diet, sugars and balanced minerals and good hooves! absolutely couldnt get over not routinely trimming the frog and sole and making pretty!!!! thinks barefooters are a bunch of tree huggers...i didnt bite but walked away because there is no arguing with stupid!

luckily... not all farriers are like this!

 

[TheCurlyPony]

I had a navicular pony, I took the shoes off, and was sound with in a couple of months. The best thing for him .

 

[erwina]

Some more great advice, thanks again.

 

[Leg_end]

My horse was diagnosed with Navicular in September 2012 and was written off by my vet, I sent him To Rockley in Nov, he was sound with 8 weeks and is home, in full work and the best he has ever been. Our full journey is on my blog in my signature