For dressage people - teaching a young horse shoulder-in?

[kit279]

I know this is quite a boring thing to ask but I'm trying to teach my chestnut to do a little shoulder in and struggling to do it. Grey horse is quite well established and understands all the lateral aids but chestnut only started flatwork in earnest 6 months ago and although an amazingly fast learner, I'm not really getting through what I want him to do. He can do all the basics in a good consistent outline and does a good leg yield, reinback and counter canter but we both get a bit tense in the shoulder in. We can sort of do it at walk but in trot, it all goes a bit scrappy and he starts getting uptight and poking his nose. I've been trying to keep him straight and just bend him a little to one side but he is an old polo pony and neckreins very well so he thinks I mean 'turn', rather than 'keep straight and bend your neck'.

Any advice? I have a good trainer who can help but really the bulk of the work needs to be done at home by me and I really want to get it right because he tries really hard for me even when I'm not being clear.

 

[kerilli]

i think i'd teach it with head facing the boards/fence, so you ride to end of long side, do a small loop back to track to get the correct bend, and then ask for it that way. makes it clearer to the horse as he can't go forwards across the school and so has to realise that you mean sideways as well as forwards. after a few good strides, praise, change bend and ride forward, etc etc.

 

[Joss]

I am not a dressage person, am I allowed to reply?

Firstly keep practising your leg yeild lots. If you do it from the 3/4 line out to the track then make sure you do sideways for a few strides then straight for a few strides then sideways so horsey is listening to your legs not just presuming what you want. Then after practising a few of these do a 10m circle in the corner (lets say A-K corner on the right rein) as you finish the circle pretend you are about to do another circle but instead go up the long side. Only aim to as far as E at first, dont have too much inside bend but aim to have the shoulders on the inside track. Too much inside bend will make him tense up. Its easier to keep the shoulders in if they have never made it out to the track in the 1st place (hence the circle). Only do a few on each rein but do them every single time you school. Also make sure you keep a firm (but kind) outside rein to make sure he doesnt just disappear 'out' of his outside shoulder.

Does any of that make sense??????? I could do it in real life - honest!!

 

[Bounty]

I have/have had a selection of ex-polo ponies that I have managed to convince to work like 'normal horses'. It is always the neck flexion where the neck reining comes back and bites you in the bum!

I start off on the ground by making sure they submit through the jaw when I feel on the reins, I then start asking for flexion to the inside by raising my inside hand. Once they've got the idea in hand and under saddle in halt/walk/trot then I start back with teaching the shoulder in. Always exaggerate the lifting of the inside hand to get the inside flexion, keeping the rein snug to the neck, as they can feel a bit lost if you use rein aids that are too open.

Hope that helps a bit

 

[Lill]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not a dressage person, am I allowed to reply?

Firstly keep practising your leg yeild lots. If you do it from the 3/4 line out to the track then make sure you do sideways for a few strides then straight for a few strides then sideways so horsey is listening to your legs not just presuming what you want. Then after practising a few of these do a 10m circle in the corner (lets say A-K corner on the right rein) as you finish the circle pretend you are about to do another circle but instead go up the long side. Only aim to as far as E at first, dont have too much inside bend but aim to have the shoulders on the inside track. Too much inside bend will make him tense up. Its easier to keep the shoulders in if they have never made it out to the track in the 1st place (hence the circle). Only do a few on each rein but do them every single time you school. Also make sure you keep a firm (but kind) outside rein to make sure he doesnt just disappear 'out' of his outside shoulder.

Does any of that make sense??????? I could do it in real life - honest!!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the way i taught Blue

seems to have worked fairly well

 

[tractorgirl]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not a dressage person, am I allowed to reply?

Firstly keep practising your leg yeild lots. If you do it from the 3/4 line out to the track then make sure you do sideways for a few strides then straight for a few strides then sideways so horsey is listening to your legs not just presuming what you want. Then after practising a few of these do a 10m circle in the corner (lets say A-K corner on the right rein) as you finish the circle pretend you are about to do another circle but instead go up the long side. Only aim to as far as E at first, dont have too much inside bend but aim to have the shoulders on the inside track. Too much inside bend will make him tense up. Its easier to keep the shoulders in if they have never made it out to the track in the 1st place (hence the circle). Only do a few on each rein but do them every single time you school. Also make sure you keep a firm (but kind) outside rein to make sure he doesnt just disappear 'out' of his outside shoulder.

Does any of that make sense??????? I could do it in real life - honest!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I found that doing legyield on a circle helped with my youngster - I started on a 20m circle, spiralled in to 10m circle and legyielded back out to a 20m circle.... Once I had that established then I did the exercise Joss described above with the 10m circle in the corner and shouulder in down long side, but also ended it with a 10m circle so would do circle, s-in, circle, s-in, circle, down the long side.

Hope that makes sense!!

 

[seabiscuit]

Try working him very, very deep and round ( but not just tucking the nose in, just really working over the neck with him taking the contact out as much as possible ) get him very supple doing lots of serpentines, and then when he's doing that nicely, keeping the deep& round go into shoulder in and hey presto it * should* be easy!

 

[CoachinaCar]

If you have a good response to your leg in leg yield you are nearly there.

Trot round track and when you come out of short side and starting long side, bend to outside and push quarters in, (I know purists are going to say this is quarters out not shoulder in but we all have to start somewhere) so if you are on right rein bend to left and push quarters in so that you are in left shoulder in (on right rein) straighten at end and repeat several times up the long side until you and horse has the feel for shoulder in, then change the rein across diagonal and once on diagonal bend to left and push quarters to right exactly as you did down the fence line but this time it is on the diagonal and will put you on left rein and then do a proper shoulder in left on next long side, then start again this way bending to right and pushing quarters in etc.

This way you will do shoulder in to the outside along the wall and then across diagonal and then to the inside along the wall, this will give you and horse a feel for the movement and gradually you will be able to do it anywhere. Dont be to dressagey about it just get a response from horse to bend and leg and you will be away.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[lauradean]

This is a very simple way of doing the shoulder in. In giving you these instructions, I am assuming your horse can flex a bit in the jowl and can bend a bit in the rib cage. Don't expect too much of either at the beginning. Shoulder in is a collecting movement and it can be difficult for both of you until you get the hang of it, so accept a small shoulder in at first. That's much better than a really big "neck-in" which many people do.

1.Go along the wall in a straight quiet trot.
2. Check that your shoulders are also perfectly straight and square - matching the horse's straight shoulders, and your legs are evenly on your horse's sides.
3. With both legs evenly on, take your inside shoulder back two inches while at the same time thinking about moving your horse's inside shoulder toward his outside shoulder. KEEP BOTH LEGS ON.

It may sound odd to think of moving your horse's inside shoulder toward the outside one, but put in the context of the other things you are doing at the same time, this works quickly and easily.
If you keep both legs on evenly, and follow the above instructions, you should be magically in a small shoulder in.

Example: You are on the left lead going perfectly straight and square. Take your left (inside) shoulder back a couple of inches. At the same time think "left horse's shoulder over to right horse's shoulder" keeping both legs on.

Good Luck!

 

[Ludi-doodi]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a very simple way of doing the shoulder in. In giving you these instructions, I am assuming your horse can flex a bit in the jowl and can bend a bit in the rib cage. Don't expect too much of either at the beginning. Shoulder in is a collecting movement and it can be difficult for both of you until you get the hang of it, so accept a small shoulder in at first. That's much better than a really big "neck-in" which many people do.

1.Go along the wall in a straight quiet trot.
2. Check that your shoulders are also perfectly straight and square - matching the horse's straight shoulders, and your legs are evenly on your horse's sides.
3. With both legs evenly on, take your inside shoulder back two inches while at the same time thinking about moving your horse's inside shoulder toward his outside shoulder. KEEP BOTH LEGS ON.

It may sound odd to think of moving your horse's inside shoulder toward the outside one, but put in the context of the other things you are doing at the same time, this works quickly and easily.
If you keep both legs on evenly, and follow the above instructions, you should be magically in a small shoulder in.

Example: You are on the left lead going perfectly straight and square. Take your left (inside) shoulder back a couple of inches. At the same time think "left horse's shoulder over to right horse's shoulder" keeping both legs on.

Good Luck!

[/ QUOTE ]

What Lauradean says but sit up and look up and in the direction you are going don't look down. My instructor also says that check you are right your outside foot should point towards, say the bottom of the area, and stay there as you move towards it - sorry can't quite remember the degree of angle she tells me to aim for!