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severnmiles

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This is my dictionary's term of baiting.

"harassment of a tethered animal"

Or

"harass with persistent criticism"

The latter I'm sure you will agree has little to do with animals, I can stand there and tell the fox its a filthy, stinking, wretched animal until I'm blue in the face but I'm sure Charlie won't give a t**s.

Therefore we are going by 'harassment of a tethered animal', Now, now Carreg, you kept the fact that you tether the fox inside the earth very quiet...shame on you!! :smirk:
 

LACS

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There's no legal definition, as far as I'm aware, of "baiting" in the exisiting UK legislation or the Animal Welfare Bill. Nevertheless, the animal clearly doesn't need to be tethered for it to be baited - it can be trapped in a confined space. For example, when terriermen bait badgers (and research suggest 10,000 are baited each year) they are sometimes placed in pens or cages with the dogs. The spectators bet on the outcome.

I consider this to be baiting:

http://www.diggingout.org/video/Digging%20Out%20-%20Results%20(Wales).wmv
 

severnmiles

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Well you can argue your concept with the dictionary.

As for the video, to me that is not baiting. Although not a perfect situation I feel apart from feeling fear, the fox in question wouldn't have felt physical pain.

When you cut yourself or you fall over or fall off of a horse e.t.c you very rarely feel the pain at that time due to the adrenalin and chemicals in the body that block pain (I cannot for the life of me think of the name but RS used the word back in Feb/March - sorry I'm having a dull moment!), about 10/15 mins after you can feel the pain, by which time as you can see that fox would have been long gone (in less than a minute).
 

LACS

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Your dictionary definitions were just two of four or five that online dictionaries supply for the word. If you put a badger in a pit or pen and chuck in a dog or dogs to fight it - that's self-evidently baiting. Pros and antis alike refer to it as "badger baiting".

As for your description of the apparently beneficent physiological effect on a fox by being baited, I think that will forever rate as the lowest point in all your contributions to this site.
 

severnmiles

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So you're a fox are you? Try coming out with a valid argument as to why the death of that fox was cruel and perhaps I'll listen.

Just a small personal request...stop the drivel for once. Its making you look like an idiot.

As for the badger hypothesis, yes I agree that is baiting. However I'm not arguing with my dictionary on the term 'Baiting'.
 

Paul T

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"As for your description of the apparently beneficent physiological effect on a fox by being baited, I think that will forever rate as the lowest point in all your contributions to this site."

Difficult call to make, given the array of gems to choose from.
 

severnmiles

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Instead of writing snide comments because you know I'm right (hey I always am, its not my fault, I was born that way), why don't you write something that might hint that you actually know just a teeny weeny bit about hunting with hounds.

Let me help you.... We hunt with a pack of hounds.....

Did that get the ball rolling? :smirk:
 

severnmiles

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Sorry,

Did I miss something? Where did I say I couldn't take insults. I love winding you lot up, and being wound up by you...makes me feel I've achieved something with my day... :smirk: :)

Just incase you didn't understand that Karl(because you seem to have missed it in my above post), I'm being sarcastic....
 

LACS

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"Instead of writing snide comments because you know I'm right (hey I always am, its not my fault, I was born that way), why don't you write something that might hint that you actually know just a teeny weeny bit about hunting with hounds.

Let me help you.... We hunt with a pack of hounds.....

Did that get the ball rolling? :smirk:"

---------------------------

In other words: severnmiles is forced into a humiliating retreat with barely a shred of dignity intact.
 

severnmiles

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And I am still waiting to hear an answer to my question earlier LACS. Do you eat fish?

He seems to have a habit of not answering questions...thats Carreg, yourself and I who are all waiting for answers...
 

allijudd

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I know, been about 6 hours since I asked LACS to first time!
Get the feeling that any question which doesnt suit their purposes can be a sore point and wont be answered. I havnt seen any pros on here refusing to answer a question put to them.
 

LACS

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Apologies, sweetheart.

Yes, I do eat fish. In fact I had fish and chips last night after a run, a quick dip in the sea and a pint of bitter. A perfect combo.

I think I've answered all other questions, but keep them coming in!
 

allijudd

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If you call me sweetheart I assume you are gay cos Im a guy! Or did you not read my reply yesterday.
So if you eat fish, you obviously support the inhumane netting of animals on their own natural habitat and then suffocated for your own gratification of dinner?? Says it all really........ one set of rules etc...
 

severnmiles

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If you call me sweetheart I assume you are gay cos Im a guy! Or did you not read my reply yesterday.
So if you eat fish, you obviously support the inhumane netting of animals on their own natural habitat and then suffocated for your own gratification of dinner?? Says it all really........ one set of rules etc...

Spot on!

P.S. For some strange reason I thought allij was a female...
 

allijudd

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Allij is a female, but alli doesnt come into the hunting forum, Im Chris, alli's OH. I did explain that yesterday for the benefit of LACS but he obviously either cant read or has a very short memory retention.
 

severnmiles

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Ahh, I thought so! Well hi Chris, nice to have another pro on board!

LACS, I'm still waiting for the answer to my question....
 

allijudd

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........... and knowing LACS you might be in for a bit or a wait. You never know he might be out suffocating another fish for his supper tomorrow. LOL
 

Clodagh

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Sorry, SM, but I though that video was cruel. Bl**dy idot terrierman IMO. Also, to have a small enough brain to want it on tape??


Sorry if hes anyones partner on here!

I have no problem with the fox being shot and thrown to hounds for them to rag it, but to be alive...not nice.
Don't actually know that I'd call it baiting, though, to be reallly pernicity.
 

severnmiles

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Sorry, SM, but I though that video was cruel. Bl**dy idot terrierman IMO. Also, to have a small enough brain to want it on tape??


Sorry if hes anyones partner on here!

I have no problem with the fox being shot and thrown to hounds for them to rag it, but to be alive...not nice.
Don't actually know that I'd call it baiting, though, to be reallly pernicity.

Definately not my OH :smirk:

The only bit I find cruel is the length of time it took for the terrierman to get it out of the earth(and the way he got it out), it wasn't done quick enough for me. You couldn't even say it was bolted. I have no problem with hounds killing a live fox because its over for the fox in seconds.

I don't want to fall out with you Clodagh but how can you be pro hunting and say the following:

"I have no problem with the fox being shot and thrown to hounds for them to rag it, but to be alive...not nice."

What is the difference between two or three hounds catching a live fox on top to a fox being bolted to the awaiting pack (I'm talking from a welfare point of view here), I'm sure if timed the latter would be just as quick if not quicker due to the amount of mouths ready to bite.
 

Clodagh

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S'OK, I'm too lazy to fall out with people.
Sorry, what I meant was I don't agree with a live fox being thrown to the hounds. I have no problem with them catching it on top. Stupidly, I don't even think its a problem if a fox goes into a shallow hole and hounds reach and draw it, its the involvement of the terrierman in that video that I objected to. If a fox is dug to or bolted it should be shot ASAP or given a head start before allowing hounds on.
(I appreciate thats all illegal now anyway.)
Hard to explain why the man handling it and then hounds having it is cruel and the others aren't...
I'll go back to making blackberry jam now. I won't make the blackberries suffer, straight into boiling water...
 

severnmiles

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Lol at the last comment! :)

No you see I disagree with bolting to guns(hence my dislike for the Hunting Act 2004), the speed foxes run when they are bolted you would have to be one cracking shot to shoot the fox cleanly and kill it instantly.

I'm not keen on the fella man handling the fox either, however I have absolutely no problem with bolting to hounds like in the video below

http://home.btclick.com/lacs1/video_mpeg/clip2.MPG

Which I must add, is very naughtily(is that a word?) slowed down to make the whole thing look alot worse and obviously slower than it actually would be. The LACS are such clever little souls when it comes to fiddling with video's to suit themselves.
 

Clodagh

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Sorry, I must think before I write. I mean shot in situ, not bolted to guns. Although, methinks the current law is that it mustn't be shot in the hole, but must be bolted and can then be shot up the ar*e.
 
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