PollyP99
Well-Known Member
I have a diploma in managing to keep fair ground guppies alive in water that burns - many years don't ya know
For those of you with goldfish in your water troughs
- Thread starter Wells
- Start date
I have a diploma in managing to keep fair ground guppies alive in water that burns - many years don't ya know
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
^5 here too, most are just kids working here no knowing most of the questions you ask. Most Pets at Home fish die anyway way in my experience. Where as I buy from aquatic center they go on for years.
DabDab
Thinks the luddites had a point...
It is a bizarre subject to spark off so much excitement
On the subject of Pets at Home - I have seen dead fish, fish with fin rot, Siamese fighting fish kept together and going at each other like lunatics...
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shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Here you go:
Unfortunately, chlorine-based disinfectants are harmful to fish, damaging their delicate gill and skin surfaces. Fish that are exposed to high levels of these disinfectants will show signs of irritation, such as swimming erratically or attempting to leave the water. As little as 0.25 milligrams per litre of chlorine (that's less than the level typically present in tap water) is capable of killing fish in a fairly short period of time. Even the "hardy" goldfish is at risk.
At lower levels, these disinfectants won't necessarily be life-threatening to fish but can still harm them. Chlorine damage to the gills is particularly serious, causing the fish breathing difficulties. Affected fish may exhibit fast gill beats and gasp or "pipe" at the water surface in an attempt to get enough oxygen into their tissues. These symptoms can easily be mistaken for low oxygen problems, gill parasites or some other sort of gill disease, when in fact it could be raw tap water that's to blame. Tip: If you do suspect chlorine damage to your fish, increase aeration in the aquarium for a few days. This helps improve their chances of recovery.
Other minerals are good for fish in tap water, it's the chlorine that is harmful
Unfortunately, chlorine-based disinfectants are harmful to fish, damaging their delicate gill and skin surfaces. Fish that are exposed to high levels of these disinfectants will show signs of irritation, such as swimming erratically or attempting to leave the water. As little as 0.25 milligrams per litre of chlorine (that's less than the level typically present in tap water) is capable of killing fish in a fairly short period of time. Even the "hardy" goldfish is at risk.
At lower levels, these disinfectants won't necessarily be life-threatening to fish but can still harm them. Chlorine damage to the gills is particularly serious, causing the fish breathing difficulties. Affected fish may exhibit fast gill beats and gasp or "pipe" at the water surface in an attempt to get enough oxygen into their tissues. These symptoms can easily be mistaken for low oxygen problems, gill parasites or some other sort of gill disease, when in fact it could be raw tap water that's to blame. Tip: If you do suspect chlorine damage to your fish, increase aeration in the aquarium for a few days. This helps improve their chances of recovery.
Other minerals are good for fish in tap water, it's the chlorine that is harmful
Capriole
Well-Known Member
Not wanting to derail this thread at all, but what is this please, Leviathan? Not heard of it.
weebarney
Well-Known Member
On the subject of pets at home staff we found out they are better at sexing guinea pigs than a vet.
mandwhy
Well-Known Member
Oh good, I was getting a bit flabbergasted there. Just because someone manages to keep fish alive in bad conditions doesn't mean it is desirable for the fish. Yes animals can survive all kinds of conditions but really, buy the dechlorinator or don't keep fish.
My trough is quite small, I wouldn't keep fish in it, I just clean it. I doubt fish poo does any harm, but then I don't think normal levels of algae do either. Unfortunately my trough gets pretty horrid in warm sunny temperatures, so I have to bail it out more often, but we don't seem to have sun anymore so it's fine.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
In the 80's early 90's a company around Fulmer brought horlicks from the company before sugar was added and mixed it in hay 1's class chaff. There were honey comb pieces of horlicks in which the horses loved. My late mare loved horlicks and would eat loads if she could. One day i left a jar in there and by the morning she somehow got it all out.
I brought a sack of horlicks , but it wasn't sweet like the drink. Sadly after a few years they stopped it as their machine was getting too bunged up with horlicks
Capriole
Well-Known Member
Sounds really nice! Partial to Horlicks myself 
Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
So for someone who bangs on about how cruel people are using XYZ on horses but fish having their gills stripped by chlorine 'for a few hours' causes you no problem what so ever? Oh dear
Yes, I bang on alot about the unwitting, careless, stupid and uncareing cruelty that so many horses have to endure at the hands of so many numpty horse owners, no apologies for that. I have to admit that the fish don't have the chlorine treatment in the tanks, probably, because as we are on spring water, we don't have chlorine in it.
(Forgot to mention that, lol).
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Tormenta
Well-Known Member
To be perfectly blunt. Goldfish get a rough deal. They are partied about as being easy to keep fish and because of their resilience are often the 'not cared about' fish, people think they can bung them into any old situation and let them cope with it. It doesn't mean they should. I have had Goldfish live to 25 years old. Just like people like to to do the best for any animal/reptile/bird they own, I would expect they wod treat fish they own just as fairly. To do otherwise shows your character IMO.
Ptolemy
Well-Known Member
I have to admit this thread has me rather confused.
I kept fancy goldfish for years. Since then I have kept koi.
Goldfish are, without doubt, one of the dirtiest fishes around. The amount of waste they produce is huge. No, goldfish themselves will not cause algae, however what they do is increase the ammonia/nitrate levels in the water. Combine that with lots of sunlight and this will encourage algae growth.
I'm curious as to why people are choosing *goldfish* for the job of algae stripping (other than the obvious "they're cheap and readily available").
I used to purposefully keep bristle-nosed catfish in my tank to try to combat the algae issue in my fish tank. From my experience I just don't see how goldfish can make efficient algae strippers. Yes, they will get rid of some, but they just aren't great algae eaters...
I will also echo what people have been saying re chlorine etc. I've always used de-chlorinator. Another thing, goldfish need a *lot* of oxygen in the water. I've no idea how often the water in your troughs is being refreshed, but the major killer of goldfish from pet-stores/fairs is goldfish sitting in bowls of stale tap-water. The double whammy of chlorine + no oxygen getting in to the water is fatal. All good tanks will have the little bubble strips/balls to feed oxygen in to the water. Man-made ponds aerate the water through the action of the water moving through the filter and at the inlet. The amount of oxygen getting into a trough is probably minimal.
I kept fancy goldfish for years. Since then I have kept koi.
Goldfish are, without doubt, one of the dirtiest fishes around. The amount of waste they produce is huge. No, goldfish themselves will not cause algae, however what they do is increase the ammonia/nitrate levels in the water. Combine that with lots of sunlight and this will encourage algae growth.
I'm curious as to why people are choosing *goldfish* for the job of algae stripping (other than the obvious "they're cheap and readily available").
I used to purposefully keep bristle-nosed catfish in my tank to try to combat the algae issue in my fish tank. From my experience I just don't see how goldfish can make efficient algae strippers. Yes, they will get rid of some, but they just aren't great algae eaters...
I will also echo what people have been saying re chlorine etc. I've always used de-chlorinator. Another thing, goldfish need a *lot* of oxygen in the water. I've no idea how often the water in your troughs is being refreshed, but the major killer of goldfish from pet-stores/fairs is goldfish sitting in bowls of stale tap-water. The double whammy of chlorine + no oxygen getting in to the water is fatal. All good tanks will have the little bubble strips/balls to feed oxygen in to the water. Man-made ponds aerate the water through the action of the water moving through the filter and at the inlet. The amount of oxygen getting into a trough is probably minimal.
Nightmare before Christmas
Well-Known Member
Boyfriends farm has goldfish in all the troughs. Seems to work for them
Nightmare before Christmas
Well-Known Member
I also used to work at pets at home before my degree. Yes we did qualifications and all that jazz. i enjoyed my job but was a 'small animal person'. I wasnt into fish but my friend did an aquatics degree through PAH. I didnt stay long enough to get that far but did do some small tests into dog and cat food for science plan sorry slight tangent!
i enjoyed my job but was a 'small animal person'. I wasnt into fish but my friend did an aquatics degree through PAH. I didnt stay long enough to get that far but did do some small tests into dog and cat food for science plan sorry slight tangent!
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
I will just have to go and read this to my friends foot long goldfish that live in her water tanks - they are extremely well - breed furiously and keep her tanks wonderfullky cleanshe usually only cleans them out in autumn to clear the dead leaves. Her fish have absolutely nothing wrong with them - the local pet shop buys the young ones from her.
The refilling keeps oxygen levels up and the chlorine goes within a few hours and is so diluted it doesn't harm them.
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
Ok PR whatever you want to believe, go back to fairy land 
I hate how people think chlorine for a few hours won't be harmful. How would you like it if we got all those saying this to breathe something harmful for a few hours everyday, I'm sure a few attitudes would change pretty sharpish
I hate how people think chlorine for a few hours won't be harmful. How would you like it if we got all those saying this to breathe something harmful for a few hours everyday, I'm sure a few attitudes would change pretty sharpish
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
Sounds really nice! Partial to Horlicks myself
MY favourite of having horlicks from the old days is put the hot horlicks- sugar- milk in a blender - whisk it up till frothy, scoop froth out into your cup then whisk the remainder and pour in, mmmmmmmmmm lovely jubly
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
We have had gold fish in the troughs since the 70's they survived the wind -rain- ice -horses drinking- horses putting feed in troughs, foxes and other wild life drinking from them , chlorine etc the only time we have lost one or two is when, Someone has forgotten to top the troughs up in summer and water too low and birds have had them.
There will be many difference of opinion of the cruelty - harmfully etc etc etc . But From my experience none of ours have died the the troughs and floated up for us to see, they have always be swimming around happily. So until there is clear evidence they don't like the trough (1979 - 2013) no evidence yet I will continue.
There will be many difference of opinion of the cruelty - harmfully etc etc etc . But From my experience none of ours have died the the troughs and floated up for us to see, they have always be swimming around happily. So until there is clear evidence they don't like the trough (1979 - 2013) no evidence yet I will continue.
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Tnavas
Well-Known Member
Ok PR whatever you want to believe, go back to fairy land
I hate how people think chlorine for a few hours won't be harmful. How would you like it if we got all those saying this to breathe something harmful for a few hours everyday, I'm sure a few attitudes would change pretty sharpish
The new water will be sooooo diluted - it really won't harm them!
Can you not read the posts from people who have goldfish in their water troughs who've had the same fish for many years and they are not harmed!
guido16
Well-Known Member
For those bumping on about chlorine, just remember, some trough water on farms comes from wells, fresh water therefore no chlorine!
EstherYoung
Well-Known Member
The other thing to remember with fish is that they are very very very sensitive to horse wormers. So if you are going to do it and you use paste wormers, you'll need to fence the troughs off for 24 hours after worming to make sure that no traces of wormer get into the water.
Pen_name
Well-Known Member
I think a bunch of you are being stupid and willfully ignorant.
Goldfish in tanks will not keep your water clean. They're dirty little ******s who poop lots for the size. Unless you're changing the water regularly (and if you're too lazy to clean the tank, I do wonder) then there's going to be a build up of nitrates. There's no way of removing them apart from a water change. They're not good for the fish or your horses.
Chlorine is harmful to fish. Unless you treat the water (or have water without it in) then you're being bloody cruel to the fish. I don't care if it's only for a few hours. Go and breath smoke for a few hours and tell me how nice it is. Low oxygen in tanks (especially those in sunlight) isn't good for the fish either.
Fish aren't a disposable thing. They're living creatures and deserve to be treated as well as we can rather than just dumped in a tank to do a job that they're not suited to at all.
Goldfish in tanks will not keep your water clean. They're dirty little ******s who poop lots for the size. Unless you're changing the water regularly (and if you're too lazy to clean the tank, I do wonder) then there's going to be a build up of nitrates. There's no way of removing them apart from a water change. They're not good for the fish or your horses.
Chlorine is harmful to fish. Unless you treat the water (or have water without it in) then you're being bloody cruel to the fish. I don't care if it's only for a few hours. Go and breath smoke for a few hours and tell me how nice it is. Low oxygen in tanks (especially those in sunlight) isn't good for the fish either.
Fish aren't a disposable thing. They're living creatures and deserve to be treated as well as we can rather than just dumped in a tank to do a job that they're not suited to at all.
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
Really can't believe some of the rubbish being spouted here! Sorry but you have obviously never kept fish in a water trough otherwise you wouldn't be saying all this! They stay clean, the insect population is reduced and for those with Sweet Itch affected horses this can be a godsend.
My friend has been keeping fish in her troughs for years with no ill effects to the fish or horses.
Your horse is stuffing it's face on grass - surrounded by dirt, worm and insect poo every day!
I'd be getting far more worked up about the people who basically ill treat their horses by over feeding them on every type of feed and supplement they can lay their hands on.
Toffee44
Well-Known Member
Pen_name
Well-Known Member
I'm not spouting rubbish. No, I have not been keeping fish in a trough. I did however have goldfish in a large tank in my house for many years. I firmly stand by what I said- they're filthy ******s and won't improve the water quality in a trough in any way.
There are better ways of managing water quality in a trough, like washing it out.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
^ this is full of twaddle. I suggests you prob were not even born when we started keeping fish in tanks, I would put money on some of my trough fish being older than you.
NO one here said fish are disposable, we have kept them in troughs for years. They are most likely healthier than some of the Pets at home fish where 20 or so fish are kept in small tanks for months prior to being sold. They waffle on about size of tank and oh your tank can only hold 8 when they have 15 in a tank 1/4 of the size.
And since none of my fish ever end up floating on the top, every get fin rot white spot or hang about on the top gasping for air. They all look and seem very happy swimming and chasing each other round the trough. Well I will take that as they are happy and healthy , when I do clean the trough there is only 1/2 inch of grime on the bottom, a lot of that is grass and plants the horses have dropped in. I check them when they come out and seem in VGC so excuse me but that is good enough for me.
Some of these troughs are brick or build into solid ground and cannot be tipped over, yes washed out but for example.
When my late mare was on box rest she stopped drinking and got dehydrated, I went to trough filled another bucket of trough water and she drank it so horses prefer trough water even with fish in.
Also rainwater gets into trough water thus diluting any chlorine and also rain water is not always clean as we know but still the hardy fish live on.
What I do not agree with is when tiny we bowls are used for fish the little round ones, this i do not agree with. but a massive big trough well..................
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Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
Im a fish keeper/breeder, two ponds, indoor and outdoor and several fish tanks as well, we are breeding angel fish and discus at the moment, we also have some breeding Koi in our pond, as well as having been a petshop manager in a previous job which you need animal qualification to achieve. So im afraid that despite what people are saying I DO know better.
Can you also not read the info that tells you that chlorine is bad for them even in small doses, this is FACT?? Or are you just another being willfully ignorant as you dont want to think that you may be causing harm and distress to an animal, oh but wait, its not a horse or something classed as sentient so I suppose it doesnt matter right??
How very very sad Pen_name
Well-Known Member
Which bit?
Fish produce ammonia and nitrates. That's not improving the water quality. IME goldfish don't eat much algae. Again, not improving the quality of the water.
Chlorine is bad for fish. People here have said they're keeping their fish in untreated water. Is that not treating them like they're disposable?
I'm not sure how old you think I am. Just because your fish are okay doesn't mean that Joe Bloggs' fish are okay.
Unless you're willing to keep them properly, then you shouldn't bother.
mcnaughty
Well-Known Member
I doubt very much that any fish would survive in a water trough through one of our recent winters - Pretty sure that water has to be around 1m deep to prevent total freezing.
Perssonally think it is a stupid idea and a bit cruel too! Buy a scrubbing brush from B&Q!
Perssonally think it is a stupid idea and a bit cruel too! Buy a scrubbing brush from B&Q!
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
your opinion!!!! my youngest fish is 10 years old thus gone through 10 years in the trough so 10 winters.
That's it I am done the holier than though fish preachers is getting boring. You will never convert or change the minds of us who have kept fish from as long back as the 70.s. Seeing my fish in my troughs healthy and happy is enough. That said cleaning the troughs out to often does not do the fish any favours as you should only change 10 % of the water never all of it.,
Right I am out of here play nice .