For those visitors on here who are Hunt sabs.

[Moomin1]

Your first paragraph would seem to many to make the point that in fact, two wrongs do make a right! There is no justification for those who beak the law to attempt to explain that they're doing so, because that's what others are doing. That isn't how the Law works, thankfully.

Your second paragraph would seem to condemn out of hand those who injure animals in their pursuit of their own version of justice. Interestingly, you pass no comment upon those who bully and attack other people who are going about a perfectly legal pastime.

I've still yet to read from anyone who supports the sabs just why they need to hide their identities!

Alec.

Alec, it seems you are trying to pick a fight to me. None of my posts, as far as I see, provide any kind of bias to either 'party' whatsoever. It was your post which suggested that nobody has ever been prosecuted for injuring a sab, insinuating that hunts people are all squeaky clean, and this entire thread is clearly about strongly insinuating that sabs are not.

I repeat, I do not condone either illegal activity by sabs, or hunts. They are both as bad as each other for committing any offence or harm to an animal. I was merely trying to put my thoughts across as to why sabs may hide their identities, which was your question.

 

[Alec Swan]

…….. . It was your post which suggested that nobody has ever been prosecuted for injuring a sab, insinuating that hunts people are all squeaky clean, and this entire thread is clearly about strongly insinuating that sabs are not.

…….. .

I'm certainly not making insinuations nor defending those who hunt outside the law, even though I do so myself! That there are those who are involved in Hunting who operate outside the Law, is obvious, but when there are those who are Hunting legally, and within the Law, they are all so often confronted by sabs who seem rather keen to hide their identity, and apart from the rather spurious claims that they're in fear of 'reprisals', I remain a little mystified as to why.

It's just as well that Mrs. Pankhurst had the courage of her convictions, thinking about it! I rather admire that lady!

Alec.

Oh, and as a ps, I'm not looking for a fight, just wondering 'why'!

 

[Moomin1]

I'm certainly not making insinuations nor defending those who hunt outside the law, even though I do so myself! That there are those who are involved in Hunting who operate outside the Law, is obvious, but when there are those who are Hunting legally, and within the Law, they are all so often confronted by sabs who seem rather keen to hide their identity, and apart from the rather spurious claims that they're in fear of 'reprisals', I remain a little mystified as to why.

It's just as well that Mrs. Pankhurst had the courage of her convictions, thinking about it! I rather admire that lady!

Alec.

Oh, and as a ps, I'm not looking for a fight, just wondering 'why'!

I think you need something else to think about in life Alec, seriously! Lol

 

[Alec Swan]

I think you need something else to think about in life Alec, seriously! Lol

That's very thoughtful of you dear, but ever the open and enquiring mind! 'People' interest me, as does their behaviour. It'll have to remain as one of life's mysteries. Strange though that there have been no direct responses, only conjecture. I know someone well who's a mole, and they assure me that this thread has been read, and so they tell me, fumed over!

Alec.

 

[Moomin1]

That's very thoughtful of you dear, but ever the open and enquiring mind! 'People' interest me, as does their behaviour. It'll have to remain as one of life's mysteries. Strange though that there have been no direct responses, only conjecture. I know someone well who's a mole, and they assure me that this thread has been read, and so they tell me, fumed over!

Alec.

Each to their own I suppose. Don't see what that will achieve really? This is half the problem you see IMO. It's like two school children squabbling when it comes to hunting. If people just started being reasonable in their debates then maybe the world would be a better place for everyone.

 

[Alec Swan]

Each to their own I suppose. Don't see what that will achieve really? This is half the problem you see IMO. It's like two school children squabbling when it comes to hunting. If people just started being reasonable in their debates then maybe the world would be a better place for everyone.

'REASON'? I've tried that, as have others, and the only response ever, seems to be that others don't want me and others, to do as we wish and as we have always done. Those who are opposed to hunting have no wish to consider the thoughts of those who have the all encompassing interests of all our wildlife at heart, and they equally have no wish to consider the thoughts of others by replying with any logical answer, apart from the fact every animal has the right to die of old age, it seems.

If those who are opposed to foxes being killed, were to direct their attentions to the truly barbaric practice of snaring foxes, then I may be prepared to listen to their arguments. It's illegal to snare deer, so why is it legal to snare foxes? There wouldn't be the kudos attached to attacking toffs though, would there?

Alec.

 

[Moomin1]

'REASON'? I've tried that, as have others, and the only response ever, seems to be that others don't want me and others, to do as we wish and as we have always done. Those who are opposed to hunting have no wish to consider the thoughts of those who have the all encompassing interests of all our wildlife at heart, and they equally have no wish to consider the thoughts of others by replying with any logical answer, apart from the fact every animal has the right to die of old age, it seems.

If those who are opposed to foxes being killed, were to direct their attentions to the truly barbaric practice of snaring foxes, then I may be prepared to listen to their arguments. It's illegal to snare deer, so why is it legal to snare foxes? There wouldn't be the kudos attached to attacking toffs though, would there?

Alec.

Dear me Alec, you really don't help the cause. I thought this thread was 'purely' in order to understand why sabs wear masks? You are too transparent Alec I'm afraid. This thread was clearly about starting yet another hunting debate. Boring.

The law is the law. Like it or lump it. End of.

 

[Alec Swan]

Dear me Alec, you really don't help the cause. I thought this thread was 'purely' in order to understand why sabs wear masks? You are too transparent Alec I'm afraid. This thread was clearly about starting yet another hunting debate. Boring.

The law is the law. Like it or lump it. End of.

That wasn't my intention at all. I did no more than answer your questions in as helpful a manner as I could. Generally, honesty is transparent, you'll find.

So, and just for you, does anyone know why so many Hunt sabs disguise themselves? There yer go moomin, back to the original question which remains unanswered!

Alec.

 

[Moomin1]

That wasn't my intention at all. I did no more than answer your questions in as helpful a manner as I could. Generally, honesty is transparent, you'll find.

So, and just for you, does anyone know why so many Hunt sabs disguise themselves? There yer go moomin, back to the original question which remains unanswered!

Alec.

Oh seriously? Jeez..lol

 

[Maesfen]

I repeat, I do not condone either illegal activity by sabs, or hunts. They are both as bad as each other for committing any offence or harm to an animal. I was merely trying to put my thoughts across as to why sabs may hide their identities, which was your question.

But surely, to hide your face as the sabs do implies that they are intent to cause damage of some sort or another and don't want to be caught out doing so while hunt followers are not hiding from anyone because they are not intending to break the law otherwise they would be wearing balaclavas too.

 

[Moomin1]

But surely, to hide your face as the sabs do implies that they are intent to cause damage of some sort or another and don't want to be caught out doing so while hunt followers are not hiding from anyone because they are not intending to break the law otherwise they would be wearing balaclavas too.

Maybe. I answered giving my guess as I do not know. Yet another post implying that hunt followers don't break the law though...

 

[Moomin1]

Here's my final take on things. My guess is that MAYBE, hunt sabs who wear something to hide their identity want to do so incase they are linked to any possibly illegal activity, or will be blanketed into that category even if they are not. My guess is that (in answer to you Maesfen), huntsfolk do NOT wear anything to hide their identity as it would immediately look suspicious and attract unwanted attention from sabs or authorities, whether they are acting illegally or not.

 

[Maesfen]

It would be interesting to see the reaction if hunts adopted the balaclava look too; how intimidated the sabs would feel and whether they would insist we uncovered our faces. Might be worth a try, put the boot on the other foot so to speak.

 

[Alec Swan]

…….. , huntsfolk do NOT wear anything to hide their identity as it would immediately look suspicious and attract unwanted attention from sabs or authorities, whether they are acting illegally or not.

We're in agreement! However, working on the basis of what's fit for the goose is fit for the ferret, then I'm sure that all will see that were the same openness displayed by those who Hunt, and were it displayed by those who don't but are only intent upon disruption, it may give them a little credibility. Most would be of the opinion that those who mask their appearance do so in an effort to avoid detection, and generally from their illegal activities.

It would be hard to imagine any need for a balaclava other than to avoid detection, a common ploy of the common criminal, other than as I've said previously, to avoid the unlikely and improbable risk of 'reprisals'. The simple fact is that when there are those who hide their identity, they will, to use your words 'Look suspicious and attract unwanted attention …….. from the authorities'.

Alec.

 

[Molly-Chops]

I'm a newcomer here, and appreciate this thread is old but I would like to put in my two penneth.

I have owned, ridden and been around horses my entire life. I am an anti. I am a member of LACS and I follow hunt sab groups on facebook. However, I am NOT a hunt sab and don't think I ever will be.
I believe that all cruel 'sports' should be banned, not just fox hunting, hence why I am a member of LACS and support it's endeavours.

I grew up in a rural area and currently live on a farm in the beautiful, rural countryside. I understand the needs for wildlife management, but I do personally believe (and have read time and time again) that fox hunting is a traditional pastime that has little to no effect on fox numbers in the countryside. It brings about more upset to local people, damage to land and distress to animals (not only the fox that's being chased, but cows, sheep, horses, domestic pets etc) than any good it does.

I will get to the point about the hunt sabs in a second...

Now, I 'get' that hunting is fun for many people. It provides a buzz of excitement. (The riding part anyway. Not quite sure why anyone would get a buzz off seeing and hearing an animal killed... but then there are some strange people out there) I love nothing more than galloping my horse through an open field with the wind on my face and adrenaline rushing through me and I can imagine it's even more intense with several others by your side.

You might be shocked to know (or maybe you won't...) that many hunts do NOT hunt within the law. I have read many posts above about how you obey the law, never trespass on private land and how respectful and open you are. This is so far from the truth. Obviously, there are hunts out there that do hunt within the law and are respectful to the countryside and it's people, and perhaps you are all part of those hunts (in which case, good for you), but there are a huge majority that are partaking in extremely illegal and quite horrific practices in order to keep hunting. (Read up about the hunt that bred foxes in a secret hideaway purposely to release them and hunt them as recently as last year)

Now, not all hunt sabateours are angels either. Far from it. There are some that give the sab community a bad name and I don't support or condone aggressive or violent behaviour at all. The majority of hunt sabateours are not out there to target the riders with abuse or aggressive behaviour. They are out there to cover scent trails when a fox darts past and distract hounds from the ILLEGAL hunts who are convincing themselves they are drag hunting and the destruction of a fox at the jaws of the hounds was merely an 'accident'... (Or so they'll have us all believe!)

The videos I've witnessed show the absolute disrespect that some of the hunting community have for anyone other than their own. This includes the treatment of their horses and the hounds.

The reason hunt sabateours cover their faces is because of the retaliation from the hunt and hunt supporters. Most sabs want to protect wildlife (not only foxes, but other wild animals that frequently get chased down and killed by the hounds) and believe that the chasing and killing of an animal by a pack of hounds being celebrated (not to mention being illegal) is wrong.
As far as the hunt is concerned, the sabs are there to ruin their day out and nothing more. This pisses the hunts off dramatically. Tensions run high. Once it's all over, sabateours regularly find their tyres slashed, windows smashed and in quite a few sickening instances, dead foxes sprawled out on their cars and driveways. This reason is why they have to protect their identities.

I am opposed to hunting with hounds because I feel it is a very outdated tradition that needs to be banished to the history books. I write this as someone not with just my own opinion on what I feel is right or wrong, but having read up on hunting and it's practices and done extensive research into how effective fox hunting is and the reasons why the Hunting Act was brought in.

Hunting is not about countryside management anymore.

People will always hunt and I would never try to shove what I think is right down a supporters throat. I do think the behaviour of some hunts is doing more harm to your community than the hunt sabateours, though.

Anyway. I will not write anymore on the issue as I dislike being involved in potentially heated internet discussions, but there you have it from my point a view. Not a sab, but someone who can see it from a sab perspective!

 

[Goldenstar]

Sabs cover their faces because they look more intimidating .
That's my view nothing any one says will change it .

 

[Alec Swan]

Those who hunt don't trouble to cover their faces for the very simple reason that they're generally operating within the law and have nothing to hide.

Those who would attempt to sabotage a legal pastime and obscure their identity do so for the express reason of avoiding detection and despite the rather silly suggestion that it may give their car tyres and windscreens a degree of protection, the simple fact is that they're more often than not, breaking the law.

Any other attempt at an explanation makes for no sense, at all.

Alec.

 

[lindsay1993]

I have held off on allowing my daughter to take her lead-rein pony out hunting for this exact reason. She would be terrified of people with covered faces acting aggressively, as most sabs I have seen do, when enjoying a perfectly legal day out.

I find it very intimidating.

 

[Countryman]

The vast majority of saboteurs have no interest whatsoever in animal welfare - if they did they wouldn't be there. They have a visceral hatred however of those who they consider to be the enemy, and that is what motivates them.

 

[Kat]

I'm a newcomer here, and appreciate this thread is old but I would like to put in my two penneth.

I have owned, ridden and been around horses my entire life. I am an anti. I am a member of LACS and I follow hunt sab groups on facebook. However, I am NOT a hunt sab and don't think I ever will be.
I believe that all cruel 'sports' should be banned, not just fox hunting, hence why I am a member of LACS and support it's endeavours.

I grew up in a rural area and currently live on a farm in the beautiful, rural countryside. I understand the needs for wildlife management, but I do personally believe (and have read time and time again) that fox hunting is a traditional pastime that has little to no effect on fox numbers in the countryside. It brings about more upset to local people, damage to land and distress to animals (not only the fox that's being chased, but cows, sheep, horses, domestic pets etc) than any good it does.

I will get to the point about the hunt sabs in a second...

Now, I 'get' that hunting is fun for many people. It provides a buzz of excitement. (The riding part anyway. Not quite sure why anyone would get a buzz off seeing and hearing an animal killed... but then there are some strange people out there) I love nothing more than galloping my horse through an open field with the wind on my face and adrenaline rushing through me and I can imagine it's even more intense with several others by your side.

You might be shocked to know (or maybe you won't...) that many hunts do NOT hunt within the law. I have read many posts above about how you obey the law, never trespass on private land and how respectful and open you are. This is so far from the truth. Obviously, there are hunts out there that do hunt within the law and are respectful to the countryside and it's people, and perhaps you are all part of those hunts (in which case, good for you), but there are a huge majority that are partaking in extremely illegal and quite horrific practices in order to keep hunting. (Read up about the hunt that bred foxes in a secret hideaway purposely to release them and hunt them as recently as last year)

Now, not all hunt sabateours are angels either. Far from it. There are some that give the sab community a bad name and I don't support or condone aggressive or violent behaviour at all. The majority of hunt sabateours are not out there to target the riders with abuse or aggressive behaviour. They are out there to cover scent trails when a fox darts past and distract hounds from the ILLEGAL hunts who are convincing themselves they are drag hunting and the destruction of a fox at the jaws of the hounds was merely an 'accident'... (Or so they'll have us all believe!)

The videos I've witnessed show the absolute disrespect that some of the hunting community have for anyone other than their own. This includes the treatment of their horses and the hounds.

The reason hunt sabateours cover their faces is because of the retaliation from the hunt and hunt supporters. Most sabs want to protect wildlife (not only foxes, but other wild animals that frequently get chased down and killed by the hounds) and believe that the chasing and killing of an animal by a pack of hounds being celebrated (not to mention being illegal) is wrong.
As far as the hunt is concerned, the sabs are there to ruin their day out and nothing more. This pisses the hunts off dramatically. Tensions run high. Once it's all over, sabateours regularly find their tyres slashed, windows smashed and in quite a few sickening instances, dead foxes sprawled out on their cars and driveways. This reason is why they have to protect their identities.

I am opposed to hunting with hounds because I feel it is a very outdated tradition that needs to be banished to the history books. I write this as someone not with just my own opinion on what I feel is right or wrong, but having read up on hunting and it's practices and done extensive research into how effective fox hunting is and the reasons why the Hunting Act was brought in.

Hunting is not about countryside management anymore.

People will always hunt and I would never try to shove what I think is right down a supporters throat. I do think the behaviour of some hunts is doing more harm to your community than the hunt sabateours, though.

Anyway. I will not write anymore on the issue as I dislike being involved in potentially heated internet discussions, but there you have it from my point a view. Not a sab, but someone who can see it from a sab perspective!

So if it is all about preventing animal cruelty why do Sabs disrupt bloodhound packs that are hunting the clean boot?

 

[Molly-Chops]

As I said, I will say no-more as I am NOT a hunt sabateour. I have just invested a lot of time in reading arguments on both sides and watching endless videos and first-hand accounts on the scuffles between the two.

Each to their own, but I can assure you that if you think hunts are 'generally operating within the law and have nothing to hide' (I quote) you are very, very misinformed or in denial.

I am surrounded by hunters on my yard. All of whom openly admit that they couldn't care less about what the Hunting Act says...

 

[Kat]

I absolutely do care what the hunting act says. The consequences of being involved in illegal activity would be very serious for me. That is one of the reasons I hunt with bloodhounds. I fail to understand how sabs can justify disrupting a bloodhound hunt if they are trying to prevent animal cruelty. I also object to getting verbal abuse for hunting when I only hunt with bloodhounds.

 

[RunToEarth]

Most sabs want to protect wildlife (not only foxes, but other wild animals that frequently get chased down and killed by the hounds) and believe that the chasing and killing of an animal by a pack of hounds being celebrated (not to mention being illegal) is wrong.

http://m.westerndailypress.co.uk/Po...eted-parents/story-29062258-detail/story.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-need-new-powers-thugs-away-wave-attacks.html
http://m.westerndailypress.co.uk/Gl...ssaults-hunt/story-28475340-detail/story.html

Sabs have been calling hounds onto roads and scaring the living daylights out of children and horses a like for years, they don't care one jot about wildlife or any other life to be perfectly frank.

If I dressed up like a hunt sab and ran around Lincoln city centre wielding pepper spray and videoing young children I would be locked up, but this mindless behaviour is allowed in our countryside, why?

You statement regarding many hunts hunting illegally just confirms that fact that actually don't understand or know too much about the sport, unless your research didn't extend past the LACS website.

 

[Countryman]

I am surrounded by hunters on my yard. All of whom openly admit that they couldn't care less about what the Hunting Act says...

That's certainly the attitude of the sabs, whose behaviour was unaffected by the ban - which shows it's nothing to do with respect for the law-they did it for years beforehand too. Given less than a dozen hunts have been found to have broken the law, it really shows the contempt some antis have for legislation - I suspect a single sab group breaks more than a dozen laws every single Saturday they go out!

 

[Luci07]

Here is something to throw into the discussion (and I do support hunting). Friends who are strongly anti have never felt the need to disguise themselves! We agree to differ in our beliefs and leave it at that.

 

[Molly-Chops]

http://m.westerndailypress.co.uk/Po...eted-parents/story-29062258-detail/story.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-need-new-powers-thugs-away-wave-attacks.html
http://m.westerndailypress.co.uk/Gl...ssaults-hunt/story-28475340-detail/story.html

Sabs have been calling hounds onto roads and scaring the living daylights out of children and horses a like for years, they don't care one jot about wildlife or any other life to be perfectly frank.

If I dressed up like a hunt sab and ran around Lincoln city centre wielding pepper spray and videoing young children I would be locked up, but this mindless behaviour is allowed in our countryside, why?

You statement regarding many hunts hunting illegally just confirms that fact that actually don't understand or know too much about the sport, unless your research didn't extend past the LACS website.

You clearly failed in reading my original post properly.

I guarantee I can find you, and link you, to many, many more distressing and horrendous cases of violence (and murder) committed by a hunt or a hunt supporter but I'm pretty sure you can do that yourself with a quick Google. There was a very big case a couple of years ago in which a sab got killed.

I'm not going to argue with you. I don't care to try and change your views.

As for saying I don't know too much about the sport, I could easily give you a list of the hunts that regularly hunt illegally, provide video footage for you, and give you a list of the prosecutions made under the Hunting Act. Again, if you bothered to take a look at things from another perspective other than your own, you would be able to find all this information out for yourself. In the meantime, you can keep pretending and stay in denial. You would have more credibility if you hunt supporters actually admitted that so many illegal hunts still take place, but the fact you claim otherwise is an absolute joke.

I have nothing more to say. The thread title asked a question and I have answered based on what I know.

I'm off to ride my horse.

 

[Molly-Chops]

http://m.westerndailypress.co.uk/Po...eted-parents/story-29062258-detail/story.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-need-new-powers-thugs-away-wave-attacks.html
http://m.westerndailypress.co.uk/Gl...ssaults-hunt/story-28475340-detail/story.html

Sabs have been calling hounds onto roads and scaring the living daylights out of children and horses a like for years, they don't care one jot about wildlife or any other life to be perfectly frank.

If I dressed up like a hunt sab and ran around Lincoln city centre wielding pepper spray and videoing young children I would be locked up, but this mindless behaviour is allowed in our countryside, why?

You statement regarding many hunts hunting illegally just confirms that fact that actually don't understand or know too much about the sport, unless your research didn't extend past the LACS website.

You clearly failed in reading my original post properly.

I guarantee I can find you, and link you, to many, many more distressing and horrendous cases of violence (and murder) committed by a hunt or a hunt supporter but I'm pretty sure you can do that yourself with a quick Google. There was a very big case a couple of years ago in which a sab got killed.

I'm not going to argue with you. I don't care to try and change your views.

As for saying I don't know too much about the sport, I could easily give you a list of the hunts that regularly hunt illegally, provide video footage for you, and give you a list of the prosecutions made under the Hunting Act. Again, if you bothered to take a look at things from another perspective other than your own, you would be able to find all this information out for yourself. In the meantime, you can keep pretending and stay in denial. You would have more credibility if you hunt supporters actually admitted that so many illegal hunts still take place, but the fact you claim otherwise is an absolute joke.

I have nothing more to say. The thread title asked a question and I have answered based on what I know.

I'm off to ride my horse.

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

I'm off to ride my horse.

Good Night.

Alec.

 

[gunnergundog]

I have nothing more to say.

You said that in your last THREE posts - bye bye!

 

[Countryman]

You clearly failed in reading my original post properly.

I guarantee I can find you, and link you, to many, many more distressing and horrendous cases of violence (and murder) committed by a hunt or a hunt supporter but I'm pretty sure you can do that yourself with a quick Google. There was a very big case a couple of years ago in which a sab got killed.
.

Nothing approaching the scale or magnitude of violence perpetuated by militant animal rights extremists. Tragically, what you refer to as a 'murder' did indeed occur but the victim was a hunt supporter, and the perpetrator an anti...