For those who have both PTS and sold on horses

[MargotC]

How do you feel about both decisions later on, and what are the factors that influence your feelings on the matter?

I had a chat with a fellow equestrian the other day, and conversation turned onto the horses we had had and later parted with.

I had my first horse PTS a few years ago; I struggled a lot with the decision at the time and for ages after. However I am now strangely at peace with knowing I did the right thing by him. He was well-cared for right until the end and it is such a relief knowing he didn't go on to be passed from pillar to post.

However I was forced to sell the mare who replaced him on due to unforeseen circumstances, a few years later. I didn't really consider the PTS option with her; she had qualities I knew many would be looking for. I sold her on and she went to an experienced horsewoman I knew by name. Whilst I was absolutely gutted at being forced to part with her I fully expected I would be feeling better thinking back about this later, than I would be thinking back about my first boy.

As it turns out I feel the other way around: I now feel very good about the first and terrible about the second one. Not knowing for sure she is well (and guaranteed to receive good care for the rest her life) is worse than having made sure my old boy didn't go on to an uncertain future.

My friend has had a couple horses PTS, and sold multiple on. They were all competition ponies and horses (mine were both happy hackers) and she says her only regret is tied to the horses she had to PTS. She reckons once a horse is sold it is completely out of your hands, and I agree with the principle but find it emotionally impossible to 'draw that line' and make a decision to stop caring about the mare just like that. I got a couple of updates from the buyer in the first months following the sale, but the last year and a half has been completely quiet and all I know is they have since moved away with the horses. I have chosen not to track her down for a handful reasons; I think it would be harder to let it go if I saw her again, I don't want to be the interfering ex-owner, and quite frankly I am scared about what I might find.

I wonder if I have more trouble dealing with the sale as it was a forced decision, and as such I am wondering what other people's experiences are. If you have to part with a horse in the future, what will influence your decision to sell on vs. PTS?

 

[Sukistokes2]

I have never sold a horse on, my sister did once and really regretted it. However I do think that if you are in a situation where it is impossible to keep them and loan is not a viable options I would never consider putting down a healthy horse because i did not want to sell. The ones I have put to sleep I have done so at the end of long lives and apart for one, no regrets. The one regret I had, was that I did not insist that he went quicker,because my Mother is an idiot when it comes to death. He was my sister's horse I was looking after, she was away and in the end I had to get her home to do the deed. It was a case of weeks too late not a day too late!! Its hard but knowing that they have not suffered is always a relief. I hope I never have to sell but I will if I have to for the welfare of the animal, I would regret it but that in the end is not what matters.

 

[MargotC]

I have never sold a horse on, my sister did once and really regretted it. However I do think that if you are in a situation where it is impossible to keep them and loan is not a viable options I would never consider putting down a healthy horse because i did not want to sell. The ones I have put to sleep I have done so at the end of long lives and apart for one, no regrets. The one regret I had, was that I did not insist that he went quicker,because my Mother is an idiot when it comes to death. He was my sister's horse I was looking after, she was away and in the end I had to get her home to do the deed. It was a case of weeks too late not a day too late!! Its hard but knowing that they have not suffered is always a relief. I hope I never have to sell but I will if I have to for the welfare of the animal, I would regret it but that in the end is not what matters.

Thanks for the response!

My first had issues that meant he wasn't ideal for selling on, which influenced the decision to PTS. The second did not, she had more to give and I had hoped it would be with me but I do know the buyers will have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of her. I too would have struggled with the concept of putting a healthy horse to sleep when there are other options. Definitely. I do subscribe to the 'worse fates than death' reasoning but preferably when all other options have been exhausted in the case of a healthy horse so obviously full of life. I think maybe the fact the mare's welfare is now firmly out of my control is what I really struggle with aside from not being able to keep her as planned... I can be a bit of a control freak and I know I would beat myself up if I heard she had ended up somewhere bad years from now. All that said, I have absolutely zero reason to think ill of the buyer. Her horses have always been well cared after as far as I know which is all I could wish for for the mare.

I'm sorry about your sister's horse. It must have been very difficult to witness.

 

[Speedyfluff]

I think if a horse still has a lot to offer someone and you cannot keep it yourself, that selling on to someone who you properly vet (I would always do some research and would want to know where the horse will be kept, if it would have company etc before selling) is the best thing for the horse. Too many people think they are the only ones who can look after their horse. They are not. There are many kind knowledgeable homes waiting for the right horse. Having a horse like that PTS is very conceited and selfish, I feel. However, if the horse is such that for whatever reason, does not have what many people are looking for, then it may be kinder to PTS than sell to an uncertain future.

 

[FfionWinnie]

It depends on the reason for each. The ones I've sold I have absolutely no regrets as they weren't suitable. The two I've had PTS was due to EGS, one old one in her prime. The latter will haunt me forever.

You parted with a horse because you had no choice, I think that's why you are sad about it.

 

[MargotC]

I think if a horse still has a lot to offer someone and you cannot keep it yourself, that selling on to someone who you properly vet (I would always do some research and would want to know where the horse will be kept, if it would have company etc before selling) is the best thing for the horse.

This was my reasoning at the time. Even if the situation was awful I felt good about the buyer which was probably why I wasn't expecting to feel this bad about it later on.

 

[MargotC]

It depends on the reason for each. The ones I've sold I have absolutely no regrets as they weren't suitable. The two I've had PTS was due to EGS, one old one in her prime. The latter will haunt me forever.

You parted with a horse because you had no choice, I think that's why you are sad about it.

I'm very sorry about your losses. I have thankfully never had to have one PTS on short notice or due to illness. That must be very hard.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. I expect if the sale was a decision I made myself and I WANTED rid of the mare I would be equally at peace with it. That's probably why I have finally come to feel 'good' about the first horse as well. As hard as it was it was a decision I had thought through and knew was right.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

My decision to sell on or PTS is simple. If a horse is healthy and can do a job, I'm happy to sell on if necessary and know I did the right thing, making a conscious decision not to wonder where they ended up because that's out of my hands once they're sold. There are so many horses in less than happy circumstances and I can't save them all, including ones I've sold on. If a horse is not a competition horse suitable for a professional rider and is aimed at the average rider market then the horse needs to be what the average riders want otherwise I'd worry about it being passed on repeatedly. An easy to do, healthy horse, with all the training basics in place is likely to be happy whatever home it is in (as long as that home isn't abusive or neglectful) so I don't worry about those horses future if they get sold on from time to time.

The horses I won't sell are the ones who are not 100% healthy or who are not suitable for an average rider but who are not competition horses either. I've been on a lot of livery yards and I've seen how the average owner keeps their horses. A horse is needed who can live partly in or out full time, hacks alone or in company - both without too many problems, has a halfway decent walk trot canter and jump, capable of going to shows without becoming unmanageable, fairly good do-er but not prone to becoming easily obese, able to be left for a week or two without being completely uncontrollable when the rider gets back on, reasonably well mannered on the ground, gets on ok when turned out in a herd, has no health problems. Anything else tends to give owners a bit of a headache, makes finding suitable livery yards harder and detracts from the fun of horse keeping. There are owners out there who will do and pay for whatever is needed to keep their horses happy, sound and healthy but there are also many who won't, who will sell on anything that gives them the slightest trouble. Or keep them in average conditions despite the horse not being truely happy, sound or healthy. As long as they can ride it and it doesn't urgently need the vet, they have the attitude that everything is fine. I don't generally sell horses though, if I've got an easy horse I tend to keep it for myself anyway, only selling if I had a drastic change in circumstances.

PTS is upsetting but it's a temporary upset, though a huge one sometimes. Selling on a horse who is in some or other way "difficult" whether with riding or management, is a lifetime of worry. I only did it once and that wasn't a sale it was a loan horse. The owner wouldn't sell and I wanted to buy one so I returned the horse and got my own. Spent the next 10 years worrying what had happened to him, devestated when once I returned to visit and found him in a bit of a sorry state. I felt I'd let him down. I only stopped worrying once enough time had passed I could be reasonably sure he'd have died of old age if nothing else. I still had to go back and check he wasn't still left there semi-neglected in the field though, had to see it with my own eyes, even though he'd be so old and without the best of care most likely had passed away or been PTS by then. On seeing the empty field only then did I feel at peace.

 

[impresario08]

I had my first horse PTS in December 2013. He had arthritis and inflammatory bowel disease. The only way he would be able to maintain a quality of life would have been on long-term steroids. I didn't want to put him through this (the side effects of long term use would be nasty for him) and so had him PTS.

Some days I still feel regret and guilt and get the 'what if I'd just tried this or one more of this' feelings, but I ultimately know that I would only have done right by my boy. I keep having dreams that he's alive and I've just forgotten about him which are pretty awful.

 

[MargotC]

@Sugar_and_Spice

Those are some great points. On paper the mare I sold is a horse I should be content to sell on in that I'm not worried about her causing the buyers any sort of trouble. Rather I expect she's giving them a lot of joy. She's a horse many would want for sure. It's the uncertainty about management and possible future homes that's nagging at me. Though of course I know you never get a lifetime guarantee of things going well even if you own the horse yourself and do everything 'right'. That's horses for you.

I think when I return to horse ownership in the future (all going to plan) my view on selling and PTS will still be the same (I won't enter into it planning to sell but with horses I think planning ahead and deciding what you would want to do in certain hypothetical situations is only right). I won't want to knowingly pass on a horse with issues but if I wanted to part with a sound horse for other reasons I would be prepared to sell provided I found the right home with careful vetting.

 

[MargotC]

I had my first horse PTS in December 2013. He had arthritis and inflammatory bowel disease. The only way he would be able to maintain a quality of life would have been on long-term steroids. I didn't want to put him through this (the side effects of long term use would be nasty for him) and so had him PTS.

Some days I still feel regret and guilt and get the 'what if I'd just tried this or one more of this' feelings, but I ultimately know that I would only have done right by my boy. I keep having dreams that he's alive and I've just forgotten about him which are pretty awful.

So sorry to hear this. It's never easy is it. Fwiw I think you made the right decision. I would have done the same in your situation. I think when you own a horse you owe it to them to be prepared make the tough decisions as well. Sometimes I wish there was a way to prepare for it though...

 

[impresario08]

So sorry to hear this. It's never easy is it. Fwiw I think you made the right decision. I would have done the same in your situation. I think when you own a horse you owe it to them to be prepared make the tough decisions as well. Sometimes I wish there was a way to prepare for it though...

especially when I hear about the latest 'miracle' product that people are seeing results with :'( I wish I could have kept my old boy happily retired and had my new boy with him too.

 

[9tails]

I think Sugar and Spice has this spot on. The easy, well behaved ones will almost always fall on their feet.

 

[Cortez]

Anyone who owns horses for a long number of years will inevitably have to do one or both of these things. I am not a pet horse owner, I have in the past run both a commercial stud farm and a sales yard, so the discussion I expect is not really one that is aimed at me, but I think that many people put themselves through unecessary guilt and pain by not realistically considering all the possible outcomes of long-term horse ownership.

 

[Enfys]

I have done both, I find selling much harder than pts.

I have never felt guilt about any I have had pts as it has always been a logical decision, for their good, not mine. I do not find the decision hard to make.
I had a healthy 14 y.o vetted for an endurance home before I emigrated, perfect home and job for him, turned out that he was almost completely blind, I had him pts, I did not, and 10 years on, still do not, regret it for a moment.

I sell on horses that have outlived their usefulness for me because they have something to offer others (childrens ponies etc) and I am selling a broodmare now because I no longer breed and she has much to offer a new owner. When I bred, and I bred registered horses with good temperaments and conformation that were well started and left me with good manners and no hang-ups, much as I adore foals they were bred to be sold on and I do not allow myself to get overly fond of them.

When I sell a horse I am a rarity in that I do not particularly want to know what is happening in their lives, I very rarely sell locally, it isn't that I don't care (I try to find them good homes) but because I can't do anything about it, it would break my heart to see them in a bad place and not be able to do anything - that is the risk you take with selling horses.

 

[MargotC]

Anyone who owns horses for a long number of years will inevitably have to do one or both of these things. I am not a pet horse owner, I have in the past run both a commercial stud farm and a sales yard, so the discussion I expect is not really one that is aimed at me, but I think that many people put themselves through unecessary guilt and pain by not realistically considering all the possible outcomes of long-term horse ownership.

This is a really good point. Obviously one time has to be the first with experiencing either decision firsthand but I know many people personally who hasn't given it thought until it happens. A steep learning curve! The PTS decision was a first for me but at least I had time to prepare since it was planned. Less so with the sale as I was hoping in the longest it would sort itself out so I could keep her. In the future when I get back into horses properly I will definitely be making plans or decisions in advance, at least when it comes to the possibility of PTS either due to accident or other cause. I expect with these things in place it will be 'easier' to deal with decision-making if you suddenly find yourself having to.

I have to say I wish the riding schools, for instance, would offer short courses tackling these things. Maybe some places do? Thinking about it I am sure I read a brochure at some point discussing the matter and aiming to help people give some thought to it before the fact.

 

[MargotC]

especially when I hear about the latest 'miracle' product that people are seeing results with :'( I wish I could have kept my old boy happily retired and had my new boy with him too.

I can imagine that makes it harder. I guess there will always be developments as we discover new treatments to help previously hard to treat conditions, which on one hand is a positive for those who develop them later on but less so for those it is too late for. Wrong time and all that..

 

[MargotC]

I think Sugar and Spice has this spot on. The easy, well behaved ones will almost always fall on their feet.

Realistically I know this holds a lot of truth. I need to get better at reminding myself instead of thinking the worst.

 

[MargotC]

I have done both, I find selling much harder than pts.

I have never felt guilt about any I have had pts as it has always been a logical decision, for their good, not mine. I do not find the decision hard to make.
I had a healthy 14 y.o vetted for an endurance home before I emigrated, perfect home and job for him, turned out that he was almost completely blind, I had him pts, I did not, and 10 years on, still do not, regret it for a moment.

I sell on horses that have outlived their usefulness for me because they have something to offer others (childrens ponies etc) and I am selling a broodmare now because I no longer breed and she has much to offer a new owner. When I bred, and I bred registered horses with good temperaments and conformation that were well started and left me with good manners and no hang-ups, much as I adore foals they were bred to be sold on and I do not allow myself to get overly fond of them.

When I sell a horse I am a rarity in that I do not particularly want to know what is happening in their lives, I very rarely sell locally, it isn't that I don't care (I try to find them good homes) but because I can't do anything about it, it would break my heart to see them in a bad place and not be able to do anything - that is the risk you take with selling horses.

I'm a little relieved I'm not alone in finding selling harder. I'm also relieved I don't have to sell horses on a regular basis. I imagine I'm the kind of person who would find it hard.

What I 'like' with PTS is that you know the outcome and you know the horse is guaranteed not to suffer, after. You can grieve and move on; there are no uncertainties.

Mine sold to what was a local home (they have since moved). I sometimes saw her driving past to other places. To be honest that made it worse because it brought her right to the front of my mind again.

Of course another thing is that IF I actively had kept up to date on her, and found she was being sold on again, I would still not be in a position to do anything about it and so knowing would probably be even worse.

 

[Cortez]

When I bred, and I bred registered horses with good temperaments and conformation that were well started and left me with good manners and no hang-ups, much as I adore foals they were bred to be sold on and I do not allow myself to get overly fond of them.

When I sell a horse I am a rarity in that I do not particularly want to know what is happening in their lives, I very rarely sell locally, it isn't that I don't care (I try to find them good homes) but because I can't do anything about it, it would break my heart to see them in a bad place and not be able to do anything - that is the risk you take with selling horses.

Yes, this ^^^ is the way I have always felt also.

 

[Annagain]

I've not really ever done either. My first pony was on loan so went back to his owners who subsequently sold him to a local riding school and I visited him now and again over the next 20 years. If I was passing he'd pop into my mind and if I had time I'd just call in on a whim to see him, but I never planned it or thought about him much at any other time.

My old boy was PTS but it was just a case of helping him on his way as he had colic and was already past the point of no return when we found him. I obviously don't regret that as I didn't have decision to make. He was 27 and as horrible as it was at the time I look back on it now and I'm glad he didn't suffer for more than a few hours. He was fit and healthy right up until that morning.

My current boy isn't up to doing what I want to do (just riding club etc but he can't jump due to foot problems) but as long as he's hacking and doing a bit of flat work you'd never know he has a problem so I'd never sell him on in case someone decided to try jumping him again. Equally, I couldn't put a horse who wasn't suffering (or a danger to himself or others) to sleep so he's stayed with me. I have been very lucky in that at the time this all happened, my best friend was having babies so I've shared her horse ever since and he is the most wonderful horse anyone could wish for. I've had some excellent sharers for my boy who are perfectly happy not jumping and competing. There are ways to make it work so there are other options, it's not always a case of sell or PTS and nothing else.

I don't ever intend to sell any horse I buy. I'm a one horse owner (or one and half as I describe my current situation ) and when I buy one, it is for me to ride and love for the rest of his days. I plan on taking my time to make 100% certain any horse I buy is the right one for me but, if I subsequently found he really wasn't suitable for me and could still have a happy, healthy, useful life with someone more suited to him, I would sell. I'd put the utmost effort into finding the right home so although I'd be sad, I don't think I'd have regrets later on.

If health reasons meant he was unsuitable but didn't require PTS I keep him as a field ornament or maybe let him go to a friend (and only a friend) who needed a companion horse. Even then I'd prefer a companionship in return for livery arrangement so I'd have responsibiltiy for him rather than passing him on.

 

[rowan666]

i have had one PTS and sold two (one was co-owned so not jst my decision) i feel much worse about the ones i sold especially the first one i sold as i lost contact with new owner and have no idea where/how he is now

 

[MargotC]

@annagain

In an ideal world this would be my aim, too. Being able to visit your old loan pony for so long sounds lovely. I'm sorry about your old boy. 27 is a very respectable age!

The mare was bought with the intention of keeping her out her life and had luck been on my side I would have still had her. It was a combination of less than ideal circumstances piling up at once which added to my negative feelings about parting with her. No foreseeing it unfortunately. Back when I bought her I had the setup to make it work on all counts, otherwise I would have held off to avoid this situation.

 

[MargotC]

i have had one PTS and sold two (one was co-owned so not jst my decision) i feel much worse about the ones i sold especially the first one i sold as i lost contact with new owner and have no idea where/how he is now

This is how I feel. At least for me with riding as a hobby and not a job, I let myself get very attached to both the horses that were mine and a couple of my older loan horses. Unfortunately that sense of attachment hasn't left when the horse's care is out of my hands. In addition to the mare I sold there's a loan mare I used to have that I've never been able to forget. She'd be in her late twenties now, but I feel in my heart she can't have made it to that age unfortunately. She had a rather busy life and wasn't always sound. I've deliberately avoided trying to get in touch with her owner as to me that mare was one in a million and to the owner she was just another horse.

 

[rowan666]

This is how I feel. At least for me with riding as a hobby and not a job, I let myself get very attached to both the horses that were mine and a couple of my older loan horses. Unfortunately that sense of attachment hasn't left when the horse's care is out of my hands. In addition to the mare I sold there's a loan mare I used to have that I've never been able to forget. She'd be in her late twenties now, but I feel in my heart she can't have made it to that age unfortunately. She had a rather busy life and wasn't always sound. I've deliberately avoided trying to get in touch with her owner as to me that mare was one in a million and to the owner she was just another horse.

isnt it an awfull feeling, all the loan ponies i had as a child we kept through to the end bar one who we took on out of pity because his owner treated him very very badly (seriously neglectled), we got him sorted and he became a cracking piny but owner turned up one day to say she wanted him back and the whole yard refused to let her step foot on the farm and gave her what for! we offered to buy him but she wanted him back so we handed had no choice but to give him back once she found livery space elsewhere (she was not allowed back on the yard) we never found out where he went and i would love to think the owner realises the error of her ways and took care of him but i very much doubt it, heartbreaking

 

[wyrdsister]

I've sold two & had two pts, though I tend to plan on keeping my horses for life. The second chap I sold I don't regret. We didn't gel & I got some of his quirks straightened out before he went. He was bought first by a friend, then sold on to a PC home. He's 20 now, still there & having a super time. The first, I feel bad about. He had the devil's own bronc in him & would bolt (true bolt) too. He put me in hospital several times. At 12, with unhorsey parents, I let him be sold with a caveat that he was unrideable. I don't know what happened to him. I would do things VERY differently now.

The pts: one was my old lad. He went at 32, at the right moment, peacefully. I miss him, but I have no regrets. The other was my gorgeous, ridiculous youngster, who I lost last week to DJD. I miss her so much I feel sick. It was the right thing to do, because she'd started falling in the field & was lame on meds, but there's a part of me that wishes I could have held her together & waited. My other mare, LP, has been borrowing time for years with various issues & treatment has progressed so much she's got a real chance of coming right now. It's wishful thinking, though. DM was going to hurt herself. LP is just difficult to manage.

Essentially, I feel worse about the one I sold - & my own naivety. T didn't have the same odds of landing on his feet as yours, OP.

 

[rara007]

I've sold quite a few really and regret none, all are in fabulous homes even 15+ years down the line in some cases, and competing at the top of their game when I wouldn't have had time in others and some are just being loved for being a horse, I wanted something to compete....

 

[MargotC]

I've sold quite a few really and regret none, all are in fabulous homes even 15+ years down the line in some cases, and competing at the top of their game when I wouldn't have had time in others and some are just being loved for being a horse, I wanted something to compete....

This is lovely to hear.

 

[MargotC]

isnt it an awfull feeling, all the loan ponies i had as a child we kept through to the end bar one who we took on out of pity because his owner treated him very very badly (seriously neglectled), we got him sorted and he became a cracking piny but owner turned up one day to say she wanted him back and the whole yard refused to let her step foot on the farm and gave her what for! we offered to buy him but she wanted him back so we handed had no choice but to give him back once she found livery space elsewhere (she was not allowed back on the yard) we never found out where he went and i would love to think the owner realises the error of her ways and took care of him but i very much doubt it, heartbreaking

That's so sad. I at least know mine went to a knowledgeable owner so that is something. In the few cases I have witnessed where horses have been kept under less than ideal conditions it has always come down to ignorance on the owner's part, not malice. Not that that makes it any better to witness.

 

[MargotC]

@wyrdsister

The second you sold sounds like a lovely outcome! I'm sorry to hear about the first. It cements my conviction I did right by the horse I had PTS, as hard as it was at the time. At twelve I would have thought differently too. I know my old mare is a cracker so should at least have the odds in her favour.

I'm really sorry about your youngster. For such big strong animals they can be so vulnerable.. I think you made the bravest, kindest decision. Sending hugs your way.