For those who PTS due to behavioural issues .....

Would be interesting to find out what breed/breeding are those who apparently have mental problems? I owned a cocker spaniel who was difficult and uber possessive, and he had a triple cross of a known difficult sire, I imagine horses would be similar, when they are bred for appearance rather than temperament.
 
gingerdog said:
Although I feel confident to post on this forum only close friends will be aware of his fate in the 'real world' everyone else will be told that he became injured as unfortunately not everyone is as realistic as the majority of people on here :(
Click to expand...

I am so sorry this is happening to you, bless you, but i do think it is important to be realistic out how horses impact on our daily lives, after all they are not exactly a cheap hobby, and ultimately we do it for pleasure and enjoyment.

I also don`t understand why there is so much judgement about PTS either. I took the decision to PTS a couple of years ago, and got absolutely lambasted for it, like i hadn`t tried everything for him (Biopsy showed horrific worm damage done before i got him, chronic diarrhea, in the vets for a week at a time (3 or 4 times over 2 months) given plasma transfusions, on steroids, protexin, skeletal thin, couldn`t eat grass, and after 3 months i called it a day) But it seems when you make this decision people in "real life" judge you terribly for it .... why is that, why do we feel we have to keep it under wraps?
 
JillA said:
Would be interesting to find out what breed/breeding are those who apparently have mental problems? I owned a cocker spaniel who was difficult and uber possessive, and he had a triple cross of a known difficult sire, I imagine horses would be similar, when they are bred for appearance rather than temperament.
Click to expand...

No question there are lines that produce a higher than average incidence of tricky/fragile minds and I've seen a couple of mares who reliably produced extremely difficult horses. There were some old tb lines that produced horses that could be terrifying, although many of them have been so diluted now (and management practices have changed) that you don't see too many really scary ones now.

There are fewer dastardly sport horses because temperament does have to play some part, although there are definitely lines with 'competition minds' which make great performance animals but can get into real trouble in situations that don't suit them, sometimes with permanent damage.

There are horses that are just 'wrong' through accident or design. I know this is not a popular view - 'there are no bad horses' but anyone who meets a lot of horses will have a few stories to tell.

I started an Arab stallion for someone years ago, who was on his 4th attempt at being broken in. I actually loved him but it wasn't hard to see what the problem was and the owner freely admitted it was a family trait. I knew he had been spectacularly expensive - huge stud fee, mare had to be approved by the stud and sent to them for breeding - and I asked the owner why bother?!? He said only about half of them ever got broken in, and half of those made it to the ring BUT the ones that did won everything. But it made me wonder what happened to all the others, especially since they were all beautiful and most professionals knew to avoid the drop outs.

I think horses can also be very damaged - physically and mentally - in ways that aren't immediately obvious. I wouldn't call these horses 'healthy' though.
 
I can think about 3 other cases. One was a dressage horse that bucked off its owner and she never rode again and had the horse PTS from her hospital bed, so to speak, as they didn't want anyone else put at risk - it had never been easy.
Another was like Janet's - a very knowledgeable person who had produced 100s of young horses had a homebred that was PTS as she couldn't risk selling it and they didn't want to ride it! I don't know what it "did" but it was thought to be probably pain related - despite every test under the sun they never found what was wrong and I think at some point they just had to come to a decision.

I have known a couple of dressage horses too, but I wonder with those if they were not passed on because the yards didn't want a problem horse from their yard out in the world.

It is something that is never done lightly and without a good deal of soul searching.
 
JillA said:
Would be interesting to find out what breed/breeding are those who apparently have mental problems? I owned a cocker spaniel who was difficult and uber possessive, and he had a triple cross of a known difficult sire, I imagine horses would be similar, when they are bred for appearance rather than temperament.
Click to expand...

It would be very interesting. A few years ago the tb stud I was on had a homebred gelding, with the looks and the moves to be amazing, he was gorgeous and quite lovely on the ground, but when he was sent away for breaking in he got more and more difficult just with the ground work until he got to the point where he was throwing himself over backwards, get up and repeat (he can't have been there more than a week) His dam had been deemed too difficult to train and was quirky to handle, but had been a succesful broodmare producing nice mannered winners, he was the exception. Maybe it was a bad combination of mare and stallion, he was by a different sire to her others.
Another place I worked had a tb x in to see if would be suitable for boss's OH. He had been a homebred, was left with his dam for a long time and always lived with other horses so no traumatic weaning or lack of social activity. And yet he didn't know how to interact with the herd, he bit and kicked his way into the "leader" position, except none of the others would follow him and he would be fine and quiet to handle then completely over react when asked to do something simple like stand or move over. All health checks and physio fine, barefoot, sound, healthy. But unpredictable, and you just got the feeling he didn't want to be bothered with humans. At 17.2 there wasn't a lot you could do about it too, so he got PTS.
 
TarrSteps said:
No question there are lines that produce a higher than average incidence of tricky/fragile minds and I've seen a couple of mares who reliably produced extremely difficult horses. There were some old tb lines that produced horses that could be terrifying, although many of them have been so diluted now (and management practices have changed) that you don't see too many really scary ones now.

There are fewer dastardly sport horses because temperament does have to play some part, although there are definitely lines with 'competition minds' which make great performance animals but can get into real trouble in situations that don't suit them, sometimes with permanent damage.

There are horses that are just 'wrong' through accident or design. I know this is not a popular view - 'there are no bad horses' but anyone who meets a lot of horses will have a few stories to tell.

I started an Arab stallion for someone years ago, who was on his 4th attempt at being broken in. I actually loved him but it wasn't hard to see what the problem was and the owner freely admitted it was a family trait. I knew he had been spectacularly expensive - huge stud fee, mare had to be approved by the stud and sent to them for breeding - and I asked the owner why bother?!? He said only about half of them ever got broken in, and half of those made it to the ring BUT the ones that did won everything. But it made me wonder what happened to all the others, especially since they were all beautiful and most professionals knew to avoid the drop outs.

I think horses can also be very damaged - physically and mentally - in ways that aren't immediately obvious. I wouldn't call these horses 'healthy' though.
Click to expand...

Tarrsteps i love your posts. You speak so much common sense.
 
I've PTS two in the past couple of years that were just beyond help. One was a 4yr old who had been a homebred, never had a bad days handling in his life but was just "odd" from a very young age. He had a very strange side and was exceptionally sharp, despite both parents being very chilled and easy rides. I think he was possibly a bit of a mental case and had just been born that way. Final straw was him attacking my friend in the stable and nearly killing him, knacker man was rung there and then. I do think some horses are just in very sad circumstances born "wrong", much like some people have mental problems. I can't think of any reason that our chap would have been like this, he just was, and it was bloody dangerous.
 
Not myself, although I would if I had to.
I know one mare who was PTS after she started running backwards. Nothing could stop her, except colliding with something or falling over. She did it on the yard, out hacking, in the school - there was no rhyme or reason, and no way of predicting when she would do it. It was a shame, because she was the sweetest horse in every other respect. I think it was the kindest decision for her, she was older, used to hard and interesting work and would not have coped well with retirement I don't think. We wondered if it was a brain tumour or some kind of dementia with her.
The second horse I know if was a three year old who started to exhibit very strange behaviour whilst being backed. He would throw himself on the floor, and also go up and over. His owner asked for a post Mortem, which did reveal a tumour, so the right decision had been made. Not that it had been easy.
Personally, with serious lameness or behaviour issues, my first instinct would be to think 'right, probably PTS is best but let's look at the alternatives too'. Unless owners have access to facilities that are suitable to retire horses to, potentially for many years, and guarantee their safety and comfort, I just think it is unfair to try to eak out a few more years for the sake of it. I can think of at least two horses that I know who have gone long past the 'day too late' stage and for whom PTS would probably be a blessing. And it makes me sick and sad to think of them, and angry to think of their owners who are confusing their professed love for their animals with their unwillingness to make the difficult but necessary decision for them.
 
I have decided to do this with my little boy he is dangerous he has broken my leg and he broke my nose when the vet vacccinated him but the real reason is he is 12hh and hates children he will attack them and he has picked one up and thrown him over the fence. I have decided to let him live his life as a pony without too much preservation and if he get laminitis he will be PTS then as his behaviour escalates when he is hungry. I wont deliberately let him get laminitis and will protect him within limits but he will never be muzzled or starved I will control his grazing by letting him be a pony on the short grass I keep all the ponies on
 
Flicker said:
Not myself, although I would if I had to.
I know one mare who was PTS after she started running backwards. Nothing could stop her, except colliding with something or falling over. She did it on the yard, out hacking, in the school - there was no rhyme or reason, and no way of predicting when she would do it. It was a shame, because she was the sweetest horse in every other respect. I think it was the kindest decision for her, she was older, used to hard and interesting work and would not have coped well with retirement I don't think. We wondered if it was a brain tumour or some kind of dementia with her.
The second horse I know if was a three year old who started to exhibit very strange behaviour whilst being backed. He would throw himself on the floor, and also go up and over. His owner asked for a post Mortem, which did reveal a tumour, so the right decision had been made. Not that it had been easy.
Personally, with serious lameness or behaviour issues, my first instinct would be to think 'right, probably PTS is best but let's look at the alternatives too'. Unless owners have access to facilities that are suitable to retire horses to, potentially for many years, and guarantee their safety and comfort, I just think it is unfair to try to eak out a few more years for the sake of it. I can think of at least two horses that I know who have gone long past the 'day too late' stage and for whom PTS would probably be a blessing. And it makes me sick and sad to think of them, and angry to think of their owners who are confusing their professed love for their animals with their unwillingness to make the difficult but necessary decision for them.
Click to expand...

Very true.

I've always been one for a hopeless cause and I've "fixed" a fair few over the years. But in a few cases I know of (and I'm sure there are some I don't know about) I rather wish I hadn't because the horse went down hill again later, perhaps because whatever was wrong was progressive but in a few cases simply because the owners either could not keep them they way they had to be kept or because everyone got complacent. In two cases someone got seriously hurt and both those horses ended up being pts amid great upset. At that point in my life it was pride and scientific curiosity that made me persist but now I know more I think I would have been better to advise the owners the effort wouldn't be worth it. Of course no one can see the future but sometime it's pretty clear where it's going to end. Being pts kindly is not the worst thing that can happen to a horse. It is my experience horse with severe behavioural issues, for whatever reasons, that don't repond to treatment do not have very happy lives and often end up in trouble. If the owner can keep them in a safe way, great, but determining that has to be done with clear vision and common sense.

I had the first horse I ever got of my own pts for behavioural reasons, although the vet and my trainer were certain there was something physically wrong. I learned an immense amount including, although I didn't like it at the time, when enough was enough.
 
Last edited:
babymare said:
Good owners never pass a horse on when there are specific issues. good owners take resoonsibility and give thier horse peace. was told that the day i said good bye to my baby and its true. x
Click to expand...

Indeed!
Good owners don't attempt top breed from a horse with a 'dodgy' temperament either - no matter what they think the cause might be.
 
AdorableAlice said:
My decision would be based on how dangerous the horse is. Behavioural issues covers an immense range of situations and what one owner may find impossible another may not.

I would not pass on a dangerous horse.
Click to expand...
Yes but some would, this is the problem.
There are not many dangerous horses, but presumably many more who are in a place without the facilities or the handler who can cope.
 
MrsD123 said:
Yes but some would, this is the problem.
There are not many dangerous horses, but presumably many more who are in a place without the facilities or the handler who can cope.
Click to expand...

This ..... ^^^^^ I ended up looking after a "very" dangerous horse, she kicked the owner in the head spiltting their head open, she had bitten, chased, kicked, attacked on numerous occasions. I started bringing her in and putting her out, i could go in her stable with her no problem at all (she`d go for others), i could catch her a she would stand for me with the farrier and the vet with no trouble, in fact the farrier was amazed at how good she was for me and would only do her if i was there with her. In all the months i spent looking after her she never put a foot wrong for me, but i wasn`t in a position where i could take on another, and the owner had her PTS on the yard.

One of mine is a nightmare, i couldn`t sell him on as he has to be micro managed to keep him anywhere near sane, and even then we still encounter many issues with him. I can keep on top of him for the most part, but i`d dread to think what would happen if he ended up with someone less experienced.
 
Totally agree pearlsasinger. so many said breed from baby as she certainly had good breeding and was beautiful mare but far to many issues to even contemplate that. far to many issues
 
I have a friend who had to do this. A youngster who had never been right since he was a foal. The way she looked at it was actually not much different to my decision to let my boy go before his physical condition became far worse. She said she could either let him go now while he was fit and well and in no physical pain. Or she could wait until the inevitable day he finally put his foot through the stable wall/got caught up in fencing/gate or escaped and had an accident and end up dying frightened and in pain.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top