For those with dogs who pull

SpringArising

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What do you use for control?

Walks are starting to become a real PITA and not enjoyable at all.

I've tried all the techniques -stopping and waiting, turning around in the other direction, telling him off, walking at the speed of light, walking at the pace of a tortoise and making him wait, you name it- he's unstoppable and everything falls on deaf ears as soon as he decides he just wants to go. He's a real Jekyll and Hyde to walk.

My neck/body is starting to ache and give me pain from the constant pulling and jerking.

He's OK on the Halti but he's almost too shut down in it. He did have one of these: http://bit.ly/2si2jow but it literally snapped in use under his power :rolleyes3:

Are the Julius K9 harnesses any good? I'm reluctant to walk him in a collar as I'm finding that his eyes are bloodshot after his walks.
 

pippixox

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I use julius k9 harnesses. They don't stop pulling, but I think they are a lot more comfortable. My last dog also would choke himself on a collar. I sometimes did a combo- halti and harness on one halti training lead so I only used Halti when needed
 

pippixox

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I now have 2 rescue collies with no lead experience. The 2yo girl wants to pull. I have found she is better if she is aloud to lead slightly in front of me
 

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I am tremendously old fashioned so I would use a large link check chain.... as with any bit of kit, if they are used correctly they are effective without being harmful or injuring the dog in any way
 

paisley

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I use a harness now, and a long lunge line, so mine has the freedom to trot on ahead (depending on where we are for safety sake, and I recall him just before he starts leaning in for a pull!

Eventually the extra work he has to do tires him out enough that he settles down. This is does obviously need reasonable recall and depends if he can be reeled in if Sudden Onset Deafness (SOD!) occurs :)
 

MotherOfChickens

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you can use a harness with a double ended lead (one clipped on back, one in centre of chest)-this works well on a friends pully dog, the chest line is basically there if she needs to remind him. she also has a bungee line (and I have them on bungee canicross lines when I am doing that) which takes the jerk out of sudden movements.
 

CorvusCorax

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It sounds like you have tried 20 things and not given any time to any of them. And you've done the human thing of just saying 'oh sod it' and gone ahead anyway. Like a lot of us do.

I'm afraid I'm another old fashioned person who just used a slip line or check chain and puts a lot of time in tramping up and down/going nowhere in particular. Loose line = we go somewhere. Tight line = we go nowhere. The dog has to learn how to learn.

You can also do a bit of ball chucking or training before you go out to take a bit of the energy off. If you always go at the same time to the same place and do the same fun things when the dog is pulling, you are rewarding it whether you think so or not.

There is the overbearing sense that the dog 'needs' exercise so we chuck all the training in the bin if we're having an off day and it's back to square one. The dog can also be stimulated and made tired by training/having to think.

Personally I don't use any equipment that makes the dog more comfortable. If I am being caused pain by the dog's actions I am not going to make it easier/facilitate that. Bad me.

My 35kg dog walks perfectly nicely on a loose line at my side on a dead check chain and is not traumatised in any way. If he at any stage lunges or pulls he stops and must wait for however long I decide. His decision.
 

MotherOfChickens

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I'm afraid I'm another old fashioned person who just used a slip line or check chain and puts a lot of time in tramping up and down/going nowhere in particular. Loose line = we go somewhere. Tight line = we go nowhere. The dog has to learn how to learn.

You can also do a bit of ball chucking or training before you go out to take a bit of the energy off. If you always go at the same time to the same place and do the same fun things when the dog is pulling, you are rewarding it whether you think so or not.

I agree -I am having to retrain mine as they were walking on a loose lead in harness but now we do canicross so I can't correct them for pulling in a harness (well, I dont think I can). So I am doing alot on collar and a slip lead (for the small headed, thick necked one) and its going well.

Having had the setter that was a bit of a nightmare though, if people (ie my OH) couldnt/wouldnt train, I would rather the dog was a bit more confortable than knackering his larynx. consistency is the key buts its difficult sometimes!
 

CorvusCorax

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I think the teaching of different commands also helps...I ring trained mine in the annoying German style lol so he does have a command to pull out in front and into the collar. In addition to a command to track, where he is 10m in front of me but must not pull, a formal/competition heel command and a social follow command which is what I use on walks.
I never walk him on the heeling side.

Having retrained a couple of steam trains, I keep whatever collar I am using quite high up the neck.
 

ponyparty

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My boy can walk nicely on a normal collar and lead, but when I took him to Badminton last year he lost the plot and was lunging towards other dogs all over the place (only to sniff but... you know how many dogs there are at Badminton! He made me spill my champagne!). This quickly became tiresome, so I bought a figure-of-8 lead from a stall there - he wouldn't tolerate a normal Halti, tried to get it off immediately. The figure of 8 worked beautifully, stopped all the pulling straight away and he walked along meekly without any further trouble.

I now use it as a slip lead and only use the figure of 8 if we're somewhere with a lot of stimuli.

Deffo recommend a figure of 8 lead. Cheap, simple and versatile!
 

galaxy

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Train is OFF LEAD first

Take him somewhere you can go straight off lead and go for a walk. every now and again, recall and ask him to heal and show with a treat where you want him to be, walk and few steps, reward and release. Repeat and repeat until you can do longer distances.

I retained my older gap when he was 4 doing this way after doing all the techniques you tried and just getting frustrated. Then I had a lightbulb moment that actually the lead has nothing to do with it, what you actually want is for the dog to walk next to you. The lead is a safety devise only. My eldest now only reverts to pulling in highly exciting situations and only briefly, in these cases i change his slip lead into a figure 8 lead.When I got my younger dog as a pup I trained him this way as soon as he walked. In fact I don't think he went on a lead walk until he was about 5/6months! He has never pulled because he actually understands what the word heal means.... walk next to me.
 

SpringArising

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Lévrier;13567327 said:
I am tremendously old fashioned so I would use a large link check chain.... as with any bit of kit, if they are used correctly they are effective without being harmful or injuring the dog in any way

I'm not adverse to anything really. Do you find they are effective?

you can use a harness with a double ended lead (one clipped on back, one in centre of chest)-this works well on a friends pully dog, the chest line is basically there if she needs to remind him.

This is sort of what I want really. I do the same thing but with his Halti if I use it - one lead on the Halti and one on his collar, and use the Halti when he doesn't listen to the collar.

It sounds like you have tried 20 things and not given any time to any of them. And you've done the human thing of just saying 'oh sod it' and gone ahead anyway. Like a lot of us do

Yes, unfortunately that is quite accurate!

Train is OFF LEAD first. Take him somewhere you can go straight off lead and go for a walk.

Thanks for the suggestion but that's not really an option - he can be dog aggressive so can't be let off/I don't have a garden.
 

Moobli

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What breed is your dog? Are you looking for advice on training him to walk on a loose lead or simply looking for equipment to make walks more enjoyable?

I prefer to train my dogs (from a young age) to walk on a loose lead although they don't spend an awful lot of time on leads in general, but it is certainly preferable to being dragged along on the occasions they do need to be leashed.

There are all kinds of no-pull harnesses now on the market but I don't have any experience of any so can't recommend - might be worth doing some research.

I do have a Julius K9 for my dog and when we are doing road walking (around quiet country lanes) I use that with an extra long training lead and allow him to trot out in front of me. He isn't the type of dog to immediately charge to the end of the lead and start pulling like a steam train though.

Personally I am not a fan of check chains due to the research done which shows they can cause irreversible damage to a dog's neck and throat.

I would recommend you try one of the no-pull harnesses when walking but also spend some time teaching your dog to walk on a loose lead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ
 

SpringArising

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What breed is your dog? Are you looking for advice on training him to walk on a loose lead or simply looking for equipment to make walks more enjoyable?

I prefer to train my dogs (from a young age) to walk on a loose lead although they don't spend an awful lot of time on leads in general, but it is certainly preferable to being dragged along on the occasions they do need to be leashed.

There are all kinds of no-pull harnesses now on the market but I don't have any experience of any so can't recommend - might be worth doing some research.

I do have a Julius K9 for my dog and when we are doing road walking (around quiet country lanes) I use that with an extra long training lead and allow him to trot out in front of me. He isn't the type of dog to immediately charge to the end of the lead and start pulling like a steam train though.

Personally I am not a fan of check chains due to the research done which shows they can cause irreversible damage to a dog's neck and throat.

I would recommend you try one of the no-pull harnesses when walking but also spend some time teaching your dog to walk on a loose lead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ

He's a 3 y/o rescue Staffy. So unfortunately not a puppy, which would have made things a lot easier if I could have trained him from the get-go.

I think I'm going to give one of the no-pull harnesses a go, was after some specific recommendations if poss from people who have tried and tested :)

Like I said he's a real Jekyll and Hyde - some days he walks lovely and others he's just a 17kg manic ball of muscle.
 

TGM

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Thanks for the suggestion but that's not really an option - he can be dog aggressive so can't be let off/I don't have a garden.

I think this may be a large part of the problem then - what do you do to allow him to burn off pent-up energy instead of having a off-lead run, or having a romp and play in the garden?
 

galaxy

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Thanks for the suggestion but that's not really an option - he can be dog aggressive so can't be let off/I don't have a garden.[/QUOTE]

ah, I wonder if that is actually a massive part of the issue.... My dogs would be horrendous if they never could go off lead and run. He must have so much pent up energy.

Obv letting him off lead is not the right thing to do. Do you walk him on a harness and long line so he has some freedom? Have you tried running with him to burn off some energy? Or cycling with him?

Once you burnt off some energy, then I would put him on a long line and harness and try to teach heel again with the method I mentioned.
 
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SpringArising

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I think this may be a large part of the problem then - what do you do to allow him to burn off pent-up energy instead of having a off-lead run, or having a romp and play in the garden?

He gets four walks a day - three of those will be 15-20 mins, then his main walk will be anything from forty five mins to an hour and a half - sometimes more. He has a 65ft line which he goes on then, where he can hooley around/have a game of fetch/wind himself round my legs with stupid line as I silently curse him.

Thanks WGSD, will check it out.
 

TGM

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Can you try Galaxy's suggestion then when he is on the long line on his main walks? Do you have any secure dog fields for hire near you that you could also use?
 

eatmyshorts

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Echo others thoughts on training ... perhaps you can hire a tennis court or indoor school now & then to practise off-lead heel work? In terms of what to put on him, i personally like halti's & find my guys (who are sled dogs trained to pull) don't pull at all in them. I've heard a lot of good things about the figure of 8 & dogmatics too. Personally i wouldn't go with a Julius K9 harness for a puller, or any harness TBH - i tend to be of the mind that if your dog pulls, it'll just give him more to lean/pull into. A non-pull harness would be the only consideration, although i'd still go with the "control the head & the body will follow" type of thinking for a strong, powerful chested dog like a SBT.
 

blackcob

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Going a bit off topic here but am I the only one who dislikes the Julius K9 style harnesses? I don't like that the 'saddle' area is so large and think it must impinge on shoulder movement, the front neck strap cuts straight across the trachea and I've seen more than one dog reverse out of them.
 

MotherOfChickens

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Going a bit off topic here but am I the only one who dislikes the Julius K9 style harnesses? I don't like that the 'saddle' area is so large and think it must impinge on shoulder movement, the front neck strap cuts straight across the trachea and I've seen more than one dog reverse out of them.

not convinced by them no-wouldnt take a sec for them to back out of them. lots of big dogs have them though.

for non canicrossing stuff I have perfect fit harnesses for both, Quarrie also has a non-stop half for tracking and we have a second skin and a non stop free motion for canicross. I tried various front entry types for general stuff but prefer the permit fit out of all the ones I've tried. so many of them impinge on shoulder movement. If the Ops dog has bust a ruff wear though, not sure they (perfect fit) would do?
 

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I think Galaxy has it. You want the dog walking by your side even without a lead on. Mine do, but because they can be excited, Zak can yank if he sees another dog, I need control, he's very aggressive with them plus my balance is awful, so it's slip lead made into figure of eight until we're in the field. I can have all three with no bother, little finger is enough to control one dog.

If yours is keen on balls/retrieving, you can get him focused on you and not other dogs. It's like a magic trick, having a ball or dummy in my hand, other dogs are ignored and I can let him rip to chase a ball. For extra focus, a rabbit skin covered ball is Zak's favourite ever toy, only ever allowed when on walks and then very briefly as a reward.
 
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Moobli

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Going a bit off topic here but am I the only one who dislikes the Julius K9 style harnesses? I don't like that the 'saddle' area is so large and think it must impinge on shoulder movement, the front neck strap cuts straight across the trachea and I've seen more than one dog reverse out of them.

I was a bit dubious until I saw them in action on some working police dogs. I also have a Ruffwear Webmaster harness which I also like but it is fiddly to get on and off quickly. My dog is happy wearing a harness and doesn't try to back out, so no probs with the Julius K9. Also the strap across the front of the Julius goes across my dog's chest, nowhere near his trachea?! My concern with them was they might hinder shoulder movement, but the one I have doesn't appear to. So, all in all, I am happy with mine so far (not had it long).
 

SpringArising

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Echo others thoughts on training ... perhaps you can hire a tennis court or indoor school now & then to practise off-lead heel work? In terms of what to put on him, i personally like halti's & find my guys (who are sled dogs trained to pull) don't pull at all in them. I've heard a lot of good things about the figure of 8 & dogmatics too. Personally i wouldn't go with a Julius K9 harness for a puller, or any harness TBH - i tend to be of the mind that if your dog pulls, it'll just give him more to lean/pull into. A non-pull harness would be the only consideration, although i'd still go with the "control the head & the body will follow" type of thinking for a strong, powerful chested dog like a SBT.

See I thought that too and really agree that some harnesses do make it easier for them to pull, but the one he had made walking him SO much easier and he actually respected it and walked nicely. I think it might have been because it controlled the front end a bit more than the standard type harness fit you usually see.

Thanks all for the suggestions so far.
 

Fragglerock

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He gets four walks a day - three of those will be 15-20 mins, then his main walk will be anything from forty five mins to an hour and a half - sometimes more. He has a 65ft line which he goes on then, where he can hooley around/have a game of fetch/wind himself round my legs with stupid line as I silently curse him.

Thanks WGSD, will check it out.

Sorry, no help but made me laugh. And you must be getting fit :)
 

alainax

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I'm guessing the normal training methods are not working? I treat a pulling dog like a horse who pulls, don't give them anything to pull against and "half halt" till they realise walking nicely is a good option.
 

MotherOfChickens

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I don't agree that pullers necessarily pull harder in a harness-that hasn't been my experience at all. dogs don't know they are meant for pulling in until you teach them so. I had a rescue dog last year who pulled in a collar and not at all in a harness.my own dogs didn't pull in harness until I did canicross. if a dog can be taught to walk in a collar then the same principles apply to teaching a dog to walk in a harness and at least they arent being half throttled in the process.

when you add reactivity/strong drive and/or learned behaviour into the mix and you don't have a blank canvas, it can make some dogs very difficult to remedially train-for us mere mortals at least.
 

CorvusCorax

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Everyone I know who uses a Julius K9 or similar (including myself) does so for drive exercises in bitework....as it leaves the head and neck totally free and they help dogs who block themselves out in a collar. Big differences in the types of harnesses available. Front leaders and side rings seem to be better for pullers.
 
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