For those with horses with spavins and choose no treatment option

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Sophstar

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My cob has just been found to be suffering with spavin in one of his hind legs, that started off with a little stiffness and resting it alot to now being a very loud clicking joint and 4/10ths lame in trot. My vet is pushing steroid injections however I am not keen on this route and am trying everything to keep him comfy. He's been moved into a drier field to minimise slipping in the mud, wears magnetic boots at night, being fed glucosamine and linseed oil and when my farrier comes next week, I'm keen on having his hind shoes removed (I wanted to before he went lame:rolleyes:) He has been having just half a sachet of bute in the morning to keep him going but want to get devils claw instead as I'm not a fan of the long term bute option.

Any advice or experiences from others who chose no treatment such as the injections?
 
Six years ago my then 15 year old eventer had bone spavin in both hinds....I retired him to the hunting field and changed his management, incorporating a lot of walking road work, cortaflex HA and turn out for 10 hours a day min and stabling in a barn. He hunted Shire country for six years with no probs until this Spring when he had to have one hock injected. HOWEVER, he was initially only 1/10 lame; 4/10 is quite a lot and I would in your position be seriously considering following your vet's advice unless your current protocol has reduced the level of lameness significantly.

I can understand your reservations about injecting into the hock....there is always a risk....but sometimes the welfare of the horse outweighs the risk.
 
I don't really understand your post. I'm probably going to get yelled at but I don't understand why you would let your horse be 4/10 lame, ie clearly very uncomfortable, yet you won't inject his hocks or bute (medium/long term) to help make him more comfortable? If you had pain caused by arthritis, wouldn't you take paracetamol or inbuprofen? Yes, of course you would. It is no different for your horse.

Help the poor lad out, get him treated.

Mine has spavins in both hocks. The joints have been medicated twice, to great effect. The infection risk is minimal, as is the potential lami risk (apparently it's a cumulative thing, ie if you keep giving steroids injections every few weeks). He's also had Tildren, which has been fantastic. You can't reverse the spavins but you can help him to feel more comfortable. Linseed is OK but not a miracle cure. Glucosamine is only any good if you get the right type and from what I understand, if you're feeding MSM and chrondroitin alongside it. It is manageable but you've got to be sensible about getting the horse comfortable in the first place.
 
He is sound in walk and have kept working him as much as I can under instruction of the vet. I took him out for an hour on the roads just in walk and he stayed sound and seems a lot brighter in himself since I've changed current routine. Glucosamine supplement includes the msm and chondroitin and he is now putting more weight on his 'bad leg' by happily resting the other hind instead, which before the vet saw him he flatly refused to do! I have the vet out in another couple of weeks to reassess him and see where we go from there.
 
If your horse is still 4/10 lame I would not be leaving it a couple of weeks before getting the vet out again.

From memory, half a sachet of bute is absolutely NOTHING! Assuming you are talking bute and not danilon, from memory it is one full sachet per 480kg of bodyweight.....and I think TWICE a day! Sorry, but it's raining and can't walk out to the yard now to check without setting everyone off thinking it's late nights.
 
you probably just can't see the lameness in walk...
Stop trying to fanny aruond with non tested things like devils claw. Treat your horse properly. If you don't trust what your vet reccomends then get a second opinion.
 
I've just had mine injected and it has helped him with his lateral work (he's never been lame, just started "hopping" on laterals). It costs over £200 to do both hocks though, and if you are not insured I can understand why you are trying to manage him with devils claw, glucosamine, MSM and chondroitin. (don't waste your money on "horse" glucosamine and MSM, the human stuff is much cheaper from simpy supplements.com and cytessentials.co.uk (MSM in bulk)

I had another one a few years ago, much more severely affected, who I managed the same way as you are, but with another owner he did need bute for a while until they fused. Consider the bute option if the injections are too expensive for you right now. They are only short term in their effect anyway, I understand that the effect tends to last a shorter time with subsequent injections, and there is a limit to how many times they can be redone.
 
Personally i'd save your money on supplements/devils claw etc and either give him a proper dose of bute or get him injected. My horse has been injected 3 times now, and still needs a daily dose of bute so he can be worked, because as far as i'm aware a horse with spavin ideally needs to be worked to encourage fusion, and it is the bute that will allow this. Personally i don't think doing nothing is an option for that degree of lameness.
 
Are you asking whether or not he's going to get "better"? Arthritis is a progressive condition so, no, he will only get worse. There are things you can do to make him more comfortable - injections, Tildren, shoeing etc. - and you can address pain and inflammation with bute or similar, but no product will completely reverse the situation.

Spavins CAN fuse but that is a long term and painful approach - vets usually recommend the horse is on pain medication as much as necessary, which carries its own risks - and it doesn't always happen.

Re alternative medication for pain. Don't assume "natural" alternatives are without risk. NSAIDs work in a very specific way and their "good" attributes are connected to the reason they are hard on the gut. It stands to reason any other substance that works in the same way carries the same risk.

What is your aversion to the injections, if I may ask? I'm not picking on your choice, just curious.
 
Also... isn't there some evidence to suggest Devil's Claw can be bad for the stomach, just as bute can be?

My horse has a daily dose of Danilon - usually one sachet per day, which isn't a lot considering he's a 17hh IDx. I had a conversation with my vet about it recently and he suggested two a day would be more appropriate for a horse of his size. He isn't lame but he does tend to get stiff if he goes without Danilon altogether. He enjoys his work so I don't see the point in him being uncomfortable while working, as he would be without bute. Having a Danilon each day means he is comfortable and able to work, which in turn keeps him supple and therefore leads to him being a much happier horse.

There is no shame in getting your vet to medicate your horse's joint, and in him having a little bit of bute. Better that he is comfortable and happy.
 
HI, This is a message for Chestnut Cob really, My horse was 6/10ths lame on the front feet !!! And this was solved by shoeing correctly, with more support on the heal, he has spavins which I had injected twice too, his ID/TB and is probably 17 to 19 at most (age).
I am now keeping him sound since the summer with 1 danilon a day His heavy type and 16' 1.
I was thinking of taking him off Danilon and trying Devils Claw instead...now after reading your post I'm not so sure.
He looks sound and happy at the moment, I also give him Cortaflex.
Any thoughts?
 
I think supplements such as cortaflex/glucosamine etc are all fairly pointless on a horse that already has joint damage, particularly in cases of spavin where there's often quite alot of bone changes. I very much doubt a joint supplement will have much of an effect if any, and seeing as they aren't cheap at all i would save the money!
 
Ok so now im going to throw in a few more ideas. I have had 3 horses now with bone spavin. One mare injected, and 2 not.

For starters my vets are a very well know equine clinic who only treat horses and specialise in racehorses and eventers.
In a conversation with them ref joint suppliments they said it is the WORST thing you can do for a horse with spavin.
Pain comes from bone changes in a joint, the cartlidge between the bones disintergrates hence the bones rub together causing pain and eventually fuse. If you feed a suppliment it prolonges the life of the cartlidge (which is already very damaged and beyond repair) and therefore does not allow the joints to fuse and the pain continues. But i am aware that it still seems normal practise to suggest suppliments with spavin.

My vets have developed a new process for spavin in which when they inject steroids into the joint (which only acts as a long term pain killer) they are also injecting an alcohol solution which basically 'burns' away the remaining cartlidge. It is done with xrays to ensure the right amount goes directly where it should. The results have been fantastic. Not once yet have they had to repeat steroid injections in a horse as by the time the steroids have worn off the joint has fused.

My current eventer missed the last part of the season through spavin. He is not 'lame' as such though, i took him for an assesment as he became naugty to ride, and i noticed him slightly resting one leg more.
He is currently on very light work as the more you keep them moving, the more 'damage' in effect is done to the cartlidge hence speeding up the process. He is not on bute but voltorol as suggested by my vet which is a pain killer cream (you can buy it over the counter) and it is rubbed into the hock twice a day. Probably not strong enough for you horses lameness though.

I have opted not for the injection as one hock has already fused without us knowing and when i took him to the vets his 'bad' leg was already well on the way to fusing and as he is an eventer and it is winter, he is not insured so decided to give him the winter of light work and reassess in january. If his joint has not fused by then i will be having his hock injected with steroids and an alcohol solution.
As my horses hocks are well on the way to healing i saw no reason for injections at the minute.

Bone spavin is not a huge problems in most cases. Most working horses will have it or had it and many will fuse without the owners even realising. I agree your horse does need bute, have you had xrays done to confirm the spavin and if so what changes are there so far?? im guessing if he was xrayed the vet has done both legs so how did the other hock look?? PM me if you prefer

PS huge apologies for my terrible spelling!
 
Aregona i think the process you described with the alcohol is becoming increasingly popular with vets when treating spavins, my horse had them this summer after numerous failed attempts with steroid injections. Although they did not make him sound there was a noticeable improvement and i'm told it can take up to a year or more before you know whether they have really worked/whether the joint has fused or is going to.
 
The alcohol injections aren't actually new although I'm sure they can be done with much more precision. Internal blisters of alcohol or iodine, especially for hocks and stifles, were not uncommon before the standard use of HA and other more modern treatment.

Like everything else, works for some, not for others. I do think it's important for people to understand what, exactly, is being done and for the horse to get the consideration is needs, regarding work, shoeing, management, and pain relief, while longer term approaches are being done.
 
oh wow, i assumed it was new as i was never offered it with the previous 2 horses. I have changed vets in the last couple of years and the boy i have now with spavin is the first horse with the condition to be treated by them, he last 2 horses were treated by my previous vets. Just confirms the change of vets was the right one ;)
 
My horse was diagnosed with a bone spavin in the summer, she was perfectly sound normally but was stiff in collected work and did show some lameness on flexion test. I was given a lot of different options but the vet did say to me to really think about what I wanted to do with my mare and outcome for her. I have choosen not to take any medical treatment but have changed my management of her quite a bit. She is turned out 24/7, we have moved from medium to hard work 3-4 times a week to light work 5-7 times a week. I include cortaflux in her feed and oil. I was working my mare up towards competeing in dressage. I have stepped back from that now and happy with my happy hacker. I don't want to give her bute to work and so far this new regime works fantastically for her. Vet was really pleased with her progress and supportive of my choices when he saw her again last week.
 
i've just posted an update and some questions about spavin management. after a year of various diagnosis and lots of vets i believe my horse has spavins. the x rays do show some minor changes and he's had reffered back/pelvic pain too. We tried steriods, then trildren with no effect. 2 bute a day makes him alot happier but not 100% sound when ridden. i last rode him in may and since decided to turn him away for a long time or retire. he's now been off for 6 months properly turned away and roughed off. he looks okay in the field, a bit stiff and drags his hind toes slightly. i'm hoping after 13 months off i'll be able to at least lightly hack him on some bute. He's only 7
 
aregona said:
oh wow, i assumed it was new as i was never offered it with the previous 2 horses. I have changed vets in the last couple of years and the boy i have now with spavin is the first horse with the condition to be treated by them, he last 2 horses were treated by my previous vets. Just confirms the change of vets was the right one ;)
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I'm sure vets would disagree but I suspect these things come in and out of fashion. (And I'm old enough to see from my own experience now. ;) ) When new treatments come along, everyone gets excited and thinks they're the answer to every question, then time goes by and it turns out to be a bit more complicated. So people go back to some of the previous ideas for the horses that don't react favourably to the newer approaches. Like so many things with horses, it's about having as many tools as possible in the box.

I find it interesting comparing "go to" treatment options here and in North America. All the same things are available, I'm sure, but different approaches are more popular/commonly used.
 
TarrSteps said:
I find it interesting comparing "go to" treatment options here and in North America. All the same things are available, I'm sure, but different approaches are more popular/commonly used.
Click to expand...

It's interesting to compare how different vets treat the same condition in the UK too - I think vets have their own "favourite" treatments which they tend to stick to, and another vet might do things differently.
 
My boy has had one treatment with tildren but it has not worked, he is still lame and struggles to turn on a small circle. I am claiming through my insurance but have only 3 months and a small amount of money left on my claim. My problem is my horse is only 7 and both hocks are affected badly. I have a problem turning him away as he is not the best with other horses as he attackes them and other horses rugs (I had to replace 3 last year), now when my other one has a rug on they have to be seperated. I can't work him as he is still lame.
 
Is it just the steroids or joint injections in general that you are wary of? If it is just the steroids then I would have a chat yo your vet about whether he thinks your horse may be a candidate for the alcohol injections (I don't think they are always recommended as the best treatment option in all cases) and the pros and cons of this. Some vets will also do injections of Adequan. If you are totally against joint injections then another option might be tildren infusions - be warned this is an expensive option (£500+ a go if memory serves, was around 4 years or so ago so prob gone up since then, or maybe not seeing as my vet had to import it from France!) and doesn't always work and does have side effect (inc colic as a reaction to the drug). Yet another option is having the joints fused surgically, not sure on the success rate and the reasons why a vet may decide on surgery being best option and not something I would personally go for but hey thought I'd give you all the options I know of! Another option would be to manage and control the pain through long term NSAID use. My personal opinion is that devils claw etc can be useful in helping with mild lameness but anything more than this and bute / danilon is needed. Don't be afraid of using bute / danilon long term if that is what your vet recommends. I had the same reservations when this is what my vet suggested but as he put it "better that he may have a slightly shorter life and be happy and comfortable than a longer one and be uncomfortable". Also bear in mind that whilst yes there are undeniably side effects there is most risk of these giving high doses long term and that the levels most horses will require run quite a low risk and that this is a very widely used drug and the reports of serious side effects are relatively rare. Things like supplements, as much turnout as possible, regular light exercise, remedial shoeing / taking shoes off can all help to alleviate symptoms. Sometimes this on its own can be just enough to manage the condition most of the time (my horse is being managed this way at the moment but spent several years on a low dose of bute prior to this and I expect he will need this again one day) but a lot of horses do need the extra help from bute / joint injections / tildren / some other treatment that I haven't thought of. Your horse may be one of the lucky few who careful management is enough for, but going off personal experience as well of experiences of friends don't bank on it. By the way I do agree with vets having "favourite" treatments! My own vet was dead against surgical fusion as he had bad personal experiences of this and steroid injections (he was perhaps a little TOO paranoid about the lami / cushings risk, but he was also of the opinion it weakened the joint in the long-term so rightly or wrongly he advised against this method of treatment) but his new favourite toy at the time was tildren (cos he had seen some good results) and bute if that failed (at the time my boy was only the 2nd horse he'd known it not work for, sure he's collected a few more by now...)
 
I am not a fan of the injections as I have heard from a number of people it can leave calcifications on the bones and obviously they wear off (if they work) after a varying length of time. You can also only have them done so many times because scar tissue can occur. My vet also understands that my pony isn't insured and is great in offering alternatives because there is only so much I can afford. My cob has had nearly £2k of blood tests, endoscopy, lung washes, steroids, inhalers within the past year all down to...an unknown allergy! And he still has crackling lungs at the end of it:mad: He has said if I don't want to have the injections done then long term pain relief will be the answer. He has always lived out 24/7 and used to get 1 night a week in to completely dry off but as soon he stands for long periods he is incredibly stiff so this will probably be a no go this year. He is being walked for half hour to an hour nearly everyday (winter darkness is not helping) and I am happy for him to be worked lightly through the winter despite it being our time of the year his lungs are able to do some proper work:rolleyes: My vet has also said be cautious of people saying 'once they have fused, the pain disappears' as he said this is not always the case. If I can get him through the winter comfortably we then face April onwards where he can barely walk across the field without huffing and his workload is almost non existant until September and so he wouldn't get the work to keep him moving.

Ponies...you fix one problem, then another one occurs!
 
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