Foreign rescues and disease

MotherOfChickens

MotherOfChickens

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I'll start with a disclaimer that I am not considering a foreign rescue. But a couple of rescue dogs I have enquired about turned out to be foreign rescues and both have leishmaniasis. I've since been digging and an awful lot of them are positive for it-even if they don't test positive at the time, it can come to light months down the line.

A foreign rescue is one thing, I have softened my outlook on that somewhat-especially given the experiences I've had with a couple of UK rescue societies-I can see why people might be tempted. I would also say though that locally we've recently had three separate cases of foreign rescues doing a runner-one was on the run for a month and ended up 30 miles away poor thing. I can't imagine taking a dog on I've never met myself, and many of these are discarded hunting dogs that must be pretty stressed after travelling etc.

I realise leish is not transmitted dog to dog in the UK (yet) but many of these societies are making light of it-saying that it lays dormant, doesnt cause a healthy dog problems etc. Then you do some research and find social network groups dedicated to tips on treating them, moaning about their vets for not being supportive enough, to illegally importing drugs from Europe and immuno-compromised dogs with shortened life spans. They are pretty much not insurable too.

A link if you don't know about the parasite
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canine_leishmaniasis

I wonder if most people know what they are letting themselves in for both emotionally and financially tbh. Does anyone live with a leish dog either her or in Europe?
 
I think it would be pretty silly to tar all foreign rescues with the same brush. They're all different, as are UK rescues.

I have two UK rescue dogs and one Romanian dog. None have had any disease. I've stayed in touch with, and got involved with the foreign rescue. Their home checks were better than the UK rescue by miles, and they have a superb back up system, two Facebook pages just for adopter's and fosterers, meet ups. On the rare occasion that dogs don't work out for adopter's we've fosters who will take them until a new home has been found. My uk rescue dogs were never checked up on. Ever. One did no home check and no follow up check - for a 1 yr old lab that had had 4 homes prior to us. When the dogs come over they come in an air conditioned van, they go into kennels in Kent for 2 days to rest and recover from the journey before they meet their new owners. All dogs have to have a harness with lead and a slip lead to ensure nothing escapes. We tell people to walk the dogs like that for the first few weeks. Most dogs have been abandoned pets and it's amazing how quickly they settle. Since I got my dog, a year ago, the lady that runs the rescue has rented a kennels and all dogs go there for at least a month before they come over, where they are health checked by the vet (who does all our vaccs and neutering prior to travel) and spend time with the ladies that work there. She's trying her hardest to raise the money to buy the kennels and expand. She also tries hard to lobby the local government about neutering but it's like talking to a brick wall. All they care is that the dogs are off the street, rotting in a pound, dying slowly from lack of food and the heat/cold.

I've only had one issue with my foreign dog, and that's that she is allergic to grass. Something that obviously didn't show up in a concrete floored cage. Something that is nothing to do with where she came from.
 
Honey. What do you think about the uncontrolled importation of a foreign disease that does not at present naturally occur here though?
When I bought my dog back from Australia even though she went through quarantine there was no requirement for her to be tested for heartworm, which back then was not in the UK. I had her tested myself, I would have hated to have been responsible for introducing it. Surely, when leish ends up here as a result of unhealthy imports it has to be a bad thing.
 
This isn't just a rescue dog problem though.

A friend of a friend imported a very well bred Italian Spinone bitch (she breeds and shows) Bitch had pups this year, friend was due to have one. Shortly after bitch whelped she became unwell, pups began to fail.

On import bitch was negative for Leish, the strain of the pregnancy and whelping caused the disease to surface and bitch and all pups very unwell and all were PTS. The breeder lost lots of money and also a very much loved and well bred bitch, together with 8 pups.

All very sad.
 
Thistle said:
This isn't just a rescue dog problem though.

A friend of a friend imported a very well bred Italian Spinone bitch (she breeds and shows) Bitch had pups this year, friend was due to have one. Shortly after bitch whelped she became unwell, pups began to fail.

On import bitch was negative for Leish, the strain of the pregnancy and whelping caused the disease to surface and bitch and all pups very unwell and all were PTS. The breeder lost lots of money and also a very much loved and well bred bitch, together with 8 pups.

All very sad.
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Oh my, how sad. If it cannot be detected by testing then I suppose it is out of anyones hands.
 
It's funny because I have a Spanish rescue pup. A friend of a friend was fostering him and I was looking for a new dog. I turned him down once as I was hoping for an older english dog from dogs trust or similar but nothing suitable came up in the 3 weeks we looked. Friend then suggested puppy again and of course after seeing him we couldn't say no. He is some sort of terrier mainly yorkie I think. Great little dog. Tested neg for everything including Leish and he has been a great little chap for the last couple of months. I am worried now as no one told me he could test positive later.

Does anyone know if I should get him tested again? My vet checked all his paperwork and was quite happy. I am shocked no one warned me. Lots of the dogs from this rescue do have Leish so maybe we should be concerned. Any information greatly appreciated and I will speak to my vet next week as well. He was castrated 2 weeks ago and passed all pre op checks but of course would not have been tested for leish.
 
http://www.scalibormap.it/
This map ,2016. From scalibor company shows the at risk zones for leishmania have significAntly enlarged from south Italy and Sardenia etc...now it's widespread due to climate change and people traveling with their dogs to the coastal resorts in summer.
I've looked up a vet site,in Italian,says it is incurable and if advanced before treatment begins usually fatal.If a dog is treated early on it can be kept in remission,but will always need cure and testing.
It also says dog to human transmission is possible ,but the sandfly vector must be present..it is not directly transmitted from dog to human.
Many Italian rescue sites online here in Italy are under playing this dreadful illness and say treatment is simple and the dog won't show symptoms..my own vet disagrees.
The site mentions false results in testing the dog can be obtained Eg when the dog is carrying a heavy worm burden,or otherwise stressed or ill and thus should be retested when it is apparent good health (so misst,perhaps redo his test in a few months when he's settled in).

https://www.google.it/search?q=leis...rbfPAhWCKcAKHadcCF4Q_AUIBygB&biw=1024&bih=648
 
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Thanks for that. He certainly shows no signs now but I am cross no one mentioned he would need retesting and I think I shall just for my own sense of peace. He was castrated 2 weeks ago though you would never know the way he has bounced back, but I shall perhaps leave it until November December time so he is fully recovered and will be approaching his first birthday. It won't change anything now but I would have thought more carefully before taking him on had I known. I could kick myself for not researching it properly.
Still he is a dear soul and much loved already so hopefully we will have his cheeky ways for many years to come.
 
Honey08 said:
I think it would be pretty silly to tar all foreign rescues with the same brush.
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I really wasn't and afaik leish isn't a problem in Romania which was the main focus of my post. I also said I've softened my stance on foreign rescues, they are all dogs after all. The fact remains that many rescues operating in leish areas are playing it down. Some dogs will lead a normal life but if you press these rescuers they will all admit the dog will have a shortened life span at best. This is a post I've considered putting up for about 6 months after someone on here recommended dogsblog to find a rescue dog-I simply hadn't been aware of the scale of the issue.

There are different strains of leash and dog-dog transmission has occurred in the US. I would also be wary if I had immun-compromised family members.I am a scientist, I know that it might never happen here-my main thoughts were for owners who are not properly informed of the costs and the potential heartbreak of watching a dog die of a prolonged illness. One vet I know has seen a few leash dogs and says they nearly always have other issues too-either from being compromised or from the low input way they've been kept.

misst I think a lot of UK vets aren't that well informed either about the disease itself or current treatment and diagnosis programs in Europe. I would push for both antibody testing and PCR although even combined its not 100%

http://www.langfordvets.co.uk/diagn...-acarus-tests/diseases-transmitted-sand-flies
 
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Clodagh said:
Oh my, how sad. If it cannot be detected by testing then I suppose it is out of anyones hands.
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not really, repeat testing is key for these imports and there are collars that are used to repel the sandflies throughout the dog's life although I'm not sure how effective they are-and of course these ex-hunting dogs will not have been so well looked after. If people are informed and still want the leash positive dog well then there's not much to be said, although you get the usual FB posts whereby people are shocked by their vets fees and seem to want some sort of discount it being a rescue and all!I'd not wish an ill dog on anyone and every dog deserves a good home.

the Spinone story is very sad. From a parasitologists pov leish is a very interesting disease but one you hope you never have to deal with.
 
Thanks MoC will speak to the vet next time I am in and will definitely get him checked again in December. I was a bit ignorant I think and a bit too ready to believe everything I was told. Well it's too late now and he is here to stay no matter what, even though he is driving me mad tonight chasing a fly round the room and ambushing myself, my husband and my other dog... despite company all day, 3 walks and plenty of playtime and toys. Today so far he has stolen, socks, knickers, a golf ball and my phone. Good job we love him already.
 
misst said:
Well it's too late now and he is here to stay no matter what, even though he is driving me mad tonight chasing a fly round the room and ambushing myself, my husband and my other dog... despite company all day, 3 walks and plenty of playtime and toys. Today so far he has stolen, socks, knickers, a golf ball and my phone. Good job we love him already.
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dogs, are dogs, are dogs no matter where they came from :D he sounds fun and has landed on his paws with you! good luck and don't be afraid to make you vet work for his consult fee ;).
 
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