Formal valuation of my horses re divorce

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Arkmiido

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I posted previously and got loads of helpful replies re what people thought my useless herd of neds is worth (ie not much! :) but they are to me...), and am continuing to argue that they were purchased by my mum originally, and ones I have bred, stud fees were paid by her hence not my assets - but ex + solicitor continues to demand valuations of my (only) assets. So now need formal valuations of my 2 mares and one foal. Think the 7 shetlands can reasonably be considered worth less than £500 each and therefore not required to be listed.
Can anyone recommend a dealer or "name", or several, who could give formal valuations of my 2 horses and foal, preferably at the lower end? I'm in Kent, prepared to pay a professional fee for this service if necessary.
 
It's difficult to find comparisons though - 8yo 16hh ISH (Grandsire Cruising) mare backed over winter, bred 1 foal, ridden about 10 times ever, had shoulder injury via gatepost and is unlevel in front, for light hacking only, had recurrent mastitis as brood mare, multiple colics due to terrible windsucking and has no front teeth.
3yo 15.1 Hannoverian x ISH - lightly backed this summer ie will walk with rider, parrot mouth, lost part of her tail bone in an accident and has since been "not right" through her back - vet says give her time and physio when she's had more chance to heal - but no idea if she'll come right. (These 2 both had freak accidents - my fields are safe really!!). Quite dozy. Had numerous sarcoids, scars on face and legs still present, removed as a 2yo.

I don't personally know instructors who buy for other people. My coach doesn't do buying and selling!
 
Perrie said:
Could you not say that your herd belongs to your mother ?
That way your ex & the solicitor can not use them as assets ??

Xxx
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That's what we are trying to argue - at least on paper - as mum paid for Pebble, and owned the mare that the 3yo was bred from, plus paid stud fees for her. and for pebble's foal. But his solicitor insists they are my assets and would rather have valuations done so I can show they aren't even worth counting as assets really! Basically as less that £500 each. Paid £450 for Pebble as unbacked but sound 6 year old with bad windsucking problems!!
 
The ex sounds a rotter wanting to value your horses. If they're as "bad" (perhaps problematic would be a better word!) as you've described, they may well value under £500 each too! Good luck. It will be worth it to be rid of him!xx
 
As your vet has dealt with horses various problems would he be happy to affirm that horses are liability:p not assett.He might be happy to confirm value is less than £££ figure you require.:rolleyes:
 
Given their problems and the current market, I think you could reasonably argue that they were a liability rather than an asset. (sorry, I would hate anyone to say the same thing about my horses)
 
Oh for gods sake - tell him to get a life....

Whose names are the passports/insurance etc in?

If yours then I suppose you could have to give him valuations but really, seriously - tell him to take on the livery/feed/vet/insurance/farrier etc fees or deduct them from the valuation if he wants to get stroppy.

Of course, if you have a foal of Totillas tucked up your jumper that could be a different matter ....

Personally, I would ignore him AND tell him not to be such a tw#t....
 
I would get a valuation from the local meat man - sounds harsh but realistically if you put them in the sale ring that is what you would be likely to get and as a bonus it is likely to be less than £500!

The other option would be to approach your nearest horse sales and ask them if they can value the horses.
 
Market value is what you could expect to get for them at a public auction i.e. meat money BUT if you have filled in the not for human consumption part of their passports they are not worth anything.

It's a bit like trying to put a monetary value on a photograph of your grandparents - to you it may be priceless but to the rest of the world it is junk.
 
I'd ask the vet to value as with all their 'special problems' he won't over value and can do you a written report.

I'm sorry for your divorce..............but mine was the best thing to happen to me, good luck for the future.
 
Stick to your guns. Advise solicitor that you will not be providing valuations for the mentioned horses as they are not your horses to provide valuations for. If you provide a valuation, it may be seen as admiting they are your horses.
 
Proof of ownership is very difficult to prove even - passports are not proof of ownership - tell his solicitor they no longer belong to you - theres not really much he can do.

And you have clearly made the right decision if this is the stunts he pulls - good on you for making him your ex :)
 
Hevs said:
Proof of ownership is very difficult to prove even - passports are not proof of ownership - tell his solicitor they no longer belong to you - theres not really much he can do.

And you have clearly made the right decision if this is the stunts he pulls - good on you for making him your ex :)
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Agree with this and above post. Call solicitors bluff and ignore him. It'll cost your ex too much money to prove who has ownership.
 
crockshard said:
It's difficult to find comparisons though - 8yo 16hh ISH (Grandsire Cruising) mare backed over winter, bred 1 foal, ridden about 10 times ever, had shoulder injury via gatepost and is unlevel in front, for light hacking only, had recurrent mastitis as brood mare, multiple colics due to terrible windsucking and has no front teeth.
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Meat Money


3yo 15.1 Hannoverian x ISH - lightly backed this summer ie will walk with rider, parrot mouth, lost part of her tail bone in an accident and has since been "not right" through her back - vet says give her time and physio when she's had more chance to heal - but no idea if she'll come right. (These 2 both had freak accidents - my fields are safe really!!). Quite dozy. Had numerous sarcoids, scars on face and legs still present, removed as a 2yo.
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Again Meat Money

Why on earth are they bothering to pursue you over what is going to be a maximum value of some £700 - £800 ???????
 
gift them all back to you mum a £1 do a recipt etc if solicitor onjects say its simple due to divorce you could no longer afford to keep them.
the guy sounds like a complete W*****
 
crockshard said:
Can anyone recommend a dealer or "name", or several, who could give formal valuations of my 2 horses and foal, preferably at the lower end? I'm in Kent, prepared to pay a professional fee for this service if necessary.
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These are the official ie recognised by DEFRA valuers for pony export in Kent:

KENT
John Parker International
Little Owl Farm
Pedlinge Hythe
Kent CT21 4JJ
Tel: 01303 266621
Fax: 01303 269400
Mrs J Parker

Lambert & Foster
77 Commercial Road
Paddock Wood
Kent TN12 6DR
Tel: 01892 832325
Fax: 01892 834700
N E Lewis ARICS

Hobbs Parker
Romney House
Ashford Market
Monument Way
Orbitol Park
Ashford TN24 0HB
Tel: 01233 502222
Fax: 01233 502211
C S Hickman FRICS FAAV
J G Hickman ARICS FAAV
C Hosmer FRICS FAAV

Think JHowards idea as good as any though!!
 
Another for meat money!
Get the valuation based on their weight!
Or as others have said refute ownership. The cost of trying to prove they are yours will far out way their potential value.
Ex's eh?
 
If your mother paid for your horses and you have not paid her back then she has an interest in those horses.

Personally I would ask your Mother to write to said solicitor and confirm that as you have not paid her the money for the horses you have agreed between you that they are on loan to you, not owned by you, until such time that you can afford to pay her for them. Get her to explain that they were not purchased as a gift of any shape or kind. Therefore would they please stop pestering you for valuations of her property as she considers it inapropriate behaviour from both professionals and your ex.

Thank god he is soon to be ex.

If you get the valuations then it is admitting that you own your horses and that you agree to them being part of the settlement. Be tough and stand your ground.
 
What does YOUR solicitor say about whether you own them? Generally who paid for them is not particularly relevant in a family relationship; other factors like who gets to make the long term decisions for them (vet treatment, putting in foal etc.) would be more relevant, along with the obvious who would get the money if they were sold.

Whatever you do, don't formally sell/gift them back to your mother. This is a direct admission that they were your assets, and as it is a transfer within the family you would get into complex issues around the value of the assets you gave away. In the event that you end up resolving the divorce in court, it also makes you look uncooperative.

TBH, it doesnt sound like they are worth much more than the meat money, and probably less if not food chain is marked on their passports. However, you cant just say they are only worth meat money and get meat valuations, as it presupposes that there is no one prepared to pay more than meat money, which I imagine is what the solicitor wants evidence for. Depending on the specifics of the situation, there is definitely a question of whether broodmare value would be higher than meat value. You also don't mention the breeding of the foal, but if you used a good stallion then chances are its worth more than £500 and will need a valuation.

I think you also need to be clear that they arent going to insist on valuation of the Shetlands before you get anyone out. If any of them ride well or have good breeding, then there is potential for the value to exceed £500, and even if you don't think theyre worth this, husband could push for it at a later date, costing you more in valuation fees. I think you also need to be careful that they dont intend to / cant lump all the horses together and consider your herd of horses 1 asset. Certainly in your husband's situation I would be pushing for this, as if you have 10 horses worth £495 each, thats still assets worth £4950 that he doesnt get to recognise otherwise. Also, you cant deduct feeding/keep costs etc., as it is your decision to keep the horses rather than realising the value.

As it sounds like your divorce is not a friendly one, I think you need to be careful that you are getting a valuation they will accept, as I suspect if they dont like it, they will push for something else, leaving you effectively paying for 2 valuations, which you dont want to do. I would go with one of the DEFRA valuation people, and get written confirmation from husband/solicitor that the horses you are having valued are all the ones they want doing. I also think you should probably be taking advice from your own solicitor on this though.
 
Ha! Anyone who thinks a horse is an asset should explain to me how that could be the case when she cost me £1500 to buy but £4000 a year in vet costs!!
 
Just want to add it is not the ex "pulling a stunt" or whatever others are calling it. It is the law, in divorce cases all assets must be valued. It won't cost him loads either to pursue it. He can ask the court to decide whether it is relevent and if they say yes then she must provide a valuation or he can return to court and she will probably have to pay his legal costs for that. The courts are wise to (and frown on) people giving away or selling cheaply assets. I imagine this is going through ancillary relief atm so you are trying to agree a financial settlement. One of you must be trying to get assets/money/maintenance from the other for this to be an issue.
 
fatpiggy said:
Ha! Anyone who thinks a horse is an asset should explain to me how that could be the case when she cost me £1500 to buy but £4000 a year in vet costs!!
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A car is an asset but costs £££ in tax/insurance/petrol/servicing
A house is an asset but costs £££ in bills/insurance/maintenance
 
OP - I do feel for you, and am watching this with more than a little interest, as I am heading down the same path, albeit apparently backwards, as it's so slow! My OH doesn't appear to recognise the term "matrimonial assets" and keeps telling me, and everyone else, the horses are his. This is despite me paying everything for the last "X" numbers of years, and him having nothing whatsoever to do with them. I can see me saying "Ok, just tell me where you want me to take them ,then". Now, that WOULD be interesting.
 
Firstly thankyou for your replies. No, I'm not offended by their awful values on paper - they are not for sale, ever, so it doesn't matter their value to me, and right now I'm glad they are not worth fortunes.
We are intending to stand our ground re formal ownership and I am reluctant to obtain valuations for that rason. However, they are "my horses" in everyone's eyes, my name in their passport, and my mum does nothing with them, so I think he will continue to contest it. And as someone suggested, as a group, collectively they could be worth alot more.
Kim is by Eugano. At one point when she was younger (pre accident) I was offered alot more than meat money for her and my ex knows it..
Yes this is going to court, it's going to be nasty. I want nothing from him other than to be free and have my house back into my sole name. He wants me to sell my house and give him half. Don't go there! Complete and utter **** and it was the best decision I ever made but he took some getting rid of, even after a year of marriage.

They are all signed out of the food chain - on my vet's instruction - due to use of various meds, insecticides, wormers and thing (I forget exactly, but have all had bute at one time or other!)
Shetlands - mostly small foals (negative equity!), lame ducks or rescues with no 'papers' (are passported) except one driving pony who is awesome - but I doubt anyone else would cope with her as she was a rescue and won't even allow anyone but me to hold her (unless you want her rearing and striking at you...)
Basically I want to have formal valuations ready to be able to say - we still consider them to be mum's property, but even as "my" assets they aren't worth anything. I spoke to my vet months ago and it was him who (helpfully) remembered every single flaw, defect and injury which would have implications for sale price - eg I had almost forgotten the sarcoid issue!
He is happy to outline their medical/behavioural problems ( I have extensive bills relating to those accidents/insurance payouts for sarcoids so I have solid proof) and he thinks they are all pretty much worthless - but I haven't asked him for a value as I didn't know a vet could value them?
The foal - by Branco (Parco/Darco line) Belgian Warmblood. 6 months.
Sadly no flaws!
 
Groom42 said:
OP - I do feel for you, and am watching this with more than a little interest, as I am heading down the same path, albeit apparently backwards, as it's so slow! My OH doesn't appear to recognise the term "matrimonial assets" and keeps telling me, and everyone else, the horses are his. This is despite me paying everything for the last "X" numbers of years, and him having nothing whatsoever to do with them. I can see me saying "Ok, just tell me where you want me to take them ,then". Now, that WOULD be interesting.
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Ouch. It would be interesting right up until he wants them taken to the local auction to release their value into cash I suspect. How awful for you. At least my ******* doesn't actually lay claim to them - yet! God I wish I had never said those 2 little words....
I'm in court on tuesday for a preliminary hearing. Absolutely terrified.
 
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