Foster Mare scandal

[spanishmustangs]

Many of you may know this, but I only recently found out...
Many high profile TB studs keep "Foster Mares" for the sole purpose of fostering TB foals. The foster mare foals are often quietly done away with, either shot, or bashed over the head in the back yard, or (as my friend saw with her own eyes) given to dealers to raise and sell. Some of these poor little mites are just days old and never make it at the dealers.

Not all TBs are mares that have problems or have died either.
I think this is a barbaric practice myself!! There are even businesses that hire out foster mares on a yearly basis and hand-rear the foals...

 

[S_N]

Well if you stated in your profile I may invite you to come here! We have just had to foster one of our TB foals onto one of our foster mares. The TB mare badly injured her hock 3 weeks before she foaled (night before last) and as such is on box rest - which is no life and not fair on her foal!! Her foal was succesfully fostered last night and the foster mares foal has happily been adopted by one of our other foster mares, who is happily bringing up her own foal and this foal - she's done it before and is worth her weight in gold! If this had not been possible, then the foster foal would have been taught to drink from a bucket/hand raised - there are always LOTS of volunteers for this! BTW FYI some of the foals out of the foster mares have gone on to lead very successful lives - one even went to HOYS!!

 

[spanishmustangs]

Well I guess that is an altogether happier outcome in your case. But I definitely don't agree with the other scenarios!

 

[wonkey_donkey]

OMG

 

[nikkiportia]

My last horse was out of a foster mare from a large stud, and all the foster foals are raised on the farm, then usually given to the staff, or sold when ready. Some are evn backed and ridden away on the stud! They go on to lead good lives. I have NEVER heard of foals being shot, or 'bashed on the head'. Ridiculous.
Giving the TB industry a bad name is not appreciated. You obviously have no experience of this yourself, and are posting this on 'hearsay'. Absolute rubbish!

 

[spanishmustangs]

If you are interested I can give you the name of the dealer that ended up with a few of these foals...

 

[appyjude]

We were offered several foster mares from this sort of route last year when we had an orphan foal - one fellow even offered to ship a mare from Ireland for us. I saw one of these setups - all the foals were raised in barns with feeders set up and 24hour supervision - they even had nanny horses to go in with them when they were established on their feed.

That is the scenario in the greater majority of these business set ups - that is what it is, a business. There are always going to be those that are underhanded and do things 'on the quiet' or 'to make a quick buck' but tarring the entire industry with this brush is unfair and wrong. Just as not all dealers are dodgy, not all trainers are crooks and not all in the TB breeding industry have the mighty £ as their sole motivation.

J

 

[AmyMay]

I know of one foster mare foal born at Coolmore - raised by hand so that it's mum could raise a TB foal. Certainly no head bashing going on there......

 

[southsidestud]

im lost why would they do this? keep foster mares to foster TB foals and kill the foals it dosent make sense

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
im lost why would they do this? keep foster mares to foster TB foals and kill the foals it dosent make sense

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think they do. A lot of the foster mares are actually coverd by very good stallions. Quite often to check for fertillity at the beginning of the season - or to help the younger more inexperienced stallion to get some covering experience, prior to covering TB mares.

The foals therefore do have some financial value. A lot will go through the sale rings ultimately. Some are given away to their hanlders.

Bits & Pieces I believe is a result of one of these 'couplings'.

 

[nikkiportia]

Amymay is right, first season sires are often used on foster mares, although the teaser usually get a few too

There are some lovely foster foals out there, although their true breeding is often kept quiet.
My last horse's passport said his breed was 'pony', haha. His mum may have been a big hairy cob, but his dad was a pure bred arab (the teaser) and an ex racer.

I'm not denying that some places may sell on to dealers, but I've never heard of this happening.
Just to add though, not all foals are whipped off their mum at birth. Mine was on his mum for 4 months. And at birth they get treated the same as TB's, IgG levels taken etc, and vaccinated. If they were due to be shot, why would the studs bother?

The foster mares provide a vital service, and often chosen for their great temperaments. But I can understand why many find it morally questionable.

 

[eventrider23]

I can’t speak for all the horses but I do know for a fact that Carol Mailer’s coloured horse (in all the Your Horse mags and Poly jump ads, etc) is a foster mare foal. He was imported from Ireland as a 3/4yr old and was out of a coloured cob foster mare and by a very successful son of Sadlers Wells…so very well bred. He has certainly inherited mountains of talent from somewhere as Carol herself would say that he would be Grade A if she were pushing his competition more as he can jump literally anything!

He is a successful one out of this programme however I have also heard of foster foals being ‘disposed of’ through disreputable methods both here in the UK and abroad as these places deem the TB foals as being more important than the disposable foster foals. Note though this is not, to my knowledge common practice as the reputable studs will do this properly and rear the foster foals/re-home them properly.

 

[KarynK]

My only gripe with the process is deliberate fostering to facilitate sending the mare abroad to be covered.
There’s an easy answer to that AI!

Whilst there may be disreputable individuals disposing of foals to cash in I think that this would be very rare indeed, at least in the UK, where it would come to light quite quickly.

 

[S_N]

[ QUOTE ]
My only gripe with the process is deliberate fostering to facilitate sending the mare abroad to be covered.
There’s an easy answer to that AI!

Whilst there may be disreputable individuals disposing of foals to cash in I think that this would be very rare indeed, at least in the UK, where it would come to light quite quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never heard of that one!! We foal all our mares at home and then should they be booked to a stallion that is stoof in IRE, FR or GER then they ship over there when the foal is approximately 27 days old - all being well with the health of both mare and foal obviously!

 

[KarynK]

Know personally of at least 3 shipped to USA minus foals!

 

[S_N]

Hmm not heard of that one. We have a couple in the US - but they foaled there!

I should add, that our most recent addition to our foster mare band (we have 5 now) competed at HOYS - so our foster foals are decent horses...

 

[Minnies_Mum]

AI is illegal under jockey club rules.

 

[Tharg]

Are foster mares tb's or any kind of hoss?

I can just imagine a Shetland pony mummying an elegant long legged tb foal!

 

[nikkiportia]

Quite a lot of them are hairy coloured cobs

 

[Tharg]

So would nurture come into it at with regards the mare setting the example to the foal?

 

[Skhosu]

With all the fuss people make about inferior mares being used this doesn't make sense.
Unless the foster mares would have been bred anyway? Or are good quality?
Why can any orphan tb foals not just be fed by hand rather than this whole palaver?

 

[Tharg]

I mean mannerisms being passed from mare to foal.

I imagine feeding by hand is labour intensive and the foal may become too accustomed to humans.

 

[Laafet]

I haven't heard of any studs fostering the foals to send the mares away to breed and I've worked for three of the biggest TB companies. The foster mare foals that we had in Ireland had a huge value, every September there is an auction for stud staff to buy whichever foal they liked best and the money goes to charity. These foals made big prices as they were often coloured and the stud staff would take them on and either sell them straight on for a profit as the Irish like to do or break them and sell them. Which at the end of the day would have been outcome for them anyway. Some people kept them and they made really good riding horses.
Foster mares are really well cared for and have a nice life as far as breeding stock can. Ours are not simply shot when they cannot produce or care for foals anymore and money is no object in their health care. It is the same for our retired racehorses that are chosen to be kept as companions for the weaker colts, they have their jabs, feet and teeth done and I have seen the amount of money spent on them when they have an accident or get sick and it is more than most would bother to spend on a retired horse.

 

[KarynK]

There are some theories and limited research done principally around ET foals suggesting just that, that the temperament and attitude of the surrogate mother can alter to some extent the attitude and willingness to use it's ability in the surrogate offspring, I guess it can work both ways and there cold be advantages with some mares not bringing up their own foals!

 

[KarynK]

[ QUOTE ]
AI is illegal under jockey club rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually technically it is allowed under certain circumstances, the rules do allow for intervention and could well be open to interpretation.

 

[kerilli]

i heard this years ago, one of the top top Irish Tb studs has a yard close by with a load of comon mares (a lot are coloured for some reason), and gives them free coverings, timed through the season so that 2 foal a week, so that there's a ready-made mummy for a rejected or orphaned million-dollar-baby if necessary. the half-bred foals are killed so that their skins can be used on the orphans to reduce the chance of rejection by foster mare.
barbaric, totally, but i guess it all comes down to £££s.

 

[flyingfeet]

Is this really that shocking? Diary cows have their calves shot so humans can drink their milk and the calves have no value.

A foster mare to raise a £10,000+ foal is a bit of a no brainer.

Not standing up for this practise, but if are against this and you drink milk you are a hypocrite.

 

[Foxfolly]

I saw a foal from a foster mare at the national stud in Ireland last summer, it looked very healthy. The guide who was taking us around said that all their foster mares go to the teaser stallions. Then when the offspring are old enough they get sold on.

Surely the non TB foals would have to stay with their mums until their mum was needed as a foster otherwise the mares milk would dry up and then she'd not be any use to use as a foster mare!!

But .... knocking on the head is common practice in dairy cattle... a lot of the big dairy farms will dispose of all male calves at birth as they are no use to them and the meat market is so bad in the UK that they don't get enough money to make it worth while rearing them for beef!!
We have a bridleway that goes through a big dairy farm and I often see dead calves waiting for the knackerman to pick them up!!

 

[Skhosu]

yes, but why not just handrear the tb foals?
And in breeding these foals (who I presume would not otherwise have been bred) is it not furthering all the excess horses that end up unwanted at sales? How is that helping the horse industry?