Foul mouthed child on hound exercise ride - what to do?

jumptillyoudrop said:
I would just like to remind everyone that this is a public forum. The Law takes a very dim view of people making accusations against people, particularly children, who are unable to defend themselves. Naming an Organisation on such a public forum and in such circumstances is also unwise from a legal point of view. Not naming, but in any other way identifying a child, and making allegations against them without first putting that child and an appropriate adult, on notice that this is going to be done and offering them the opportunity to put the record straight is extremely unwise. Please remember that this forum, like all social media spaces is not an ungoverned place in which to say things that may be actionable at law.
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A bit of an overreaction!
 
Tiddlypom said:
Steady on. It was me who suggested a possible name of the pack involved. Not much detective work required. I am currently looking at a colour half page ad in the Kelsall Hill BE horse trials programme detailing on which date CBH hound exercise starts, and listing the day of the week and the start time. It's hardly a clandestine activity.

It's good that people who follow this pack have posted to say that hound exercise is, in fact, well organised. It would have to be, with 100 followers out.
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I agree Tiddlypom and I did the same thing. The OP gave enough information and that's the problem. It was not you making the original accusation.

There have been a few times when the Bloodhounds have had over 100 riders out and 60-70 is a normal field. It really is superbly organised.
Of course we don't know for sure that the OP was referring to this pack as they did not name them but I agree that there is plenty of information, which would lead to you, I and several others making that assumption.
 
Speedyfluff said:
A bit of an overreaction!
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Not really. Just imagine if people assumed from a post that your child and/or you had been foul mouthed when this wasn't actually true.

I've been unfortunate enough, in the past, to have someone on another forum make up the most vile lies about me allegedly abusing my horses. The law is there to protect people from this sort of defamation and it cannot be acceptable for people to post things that result in others making incorrect assumptions.

I don't know for certain that the incident referred to was the same one that I saw but it could be - and if this is the case, then I would like to put the record straight and say that I didn't hear the child swear, at least ten people around me did not hear any swearing and neither the child nor his mother are anything but very polite.
 
Nancykitt said:
Not really. Just imagine if people assumed from a post that your child and/or you had been foul mouthed when this wasn't actually true.

I've been unfortunate enough, in the past, to have someone on another forum make up the most vile lies about me allegedly abusing my horses. The law is there to protect people from this sort of defamation and it cannot be acceptable for people to post things that result in others making incorrect assumptions.

I don't know for certain that the incident referred to was the same one that I saw but it could be - and if this is the case, then I would like to put the record straight and say that I didn't hear the child swear, at least ten people around me did not hear any swearing and neither the child nor his mother are anything but very polite.
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The OP has not given names, others have given a name of a hunt but there's nothing to say it is the correct hunt. Most bloodhound packs meet on a Sunday and will be have hound exercise meets now which are very popular, more popular than hunting proper and have many people out, children included. I know this from experience and I've only hunted round this neck of the woods, which is a fair old way from Cheshire.

Can't for a moment see how the law would be interested at all, the case you mention above states they were lies told about you. can't imagine the OP would make some random story about someone she doesn't even know. The very fact the thread is still here proves that.

The parents of the child should thoroughly ashamed, I would be.
 
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I do realise I am rather old fashioned but I hate hearing anyone use bad language and if my child, he is 17, spoke to someone like that he would be reprimanded for being so disrespectful! Completely unnecessary way to speak to anyone and horses do kick, deal with it with a bit of dignity. I am completely fed up with the use of foul language being the norm, my Mum always told us as children that the reason people swore was because they lacked the intelligence to use a more appropriate word. I think she was right. Rant over.
 
As a non-hunter and therefore one who is unaware of hunting etiquette, I'm intrigued by the comments that blame the girl for "allowing" her pony to kick the other child's pony. Just wondering - and this is a genuine question - how she was supposed to have stopped it? Should there not be an onus on the rider behind not to put himself / herself in a position where he/she is likely to be kicked? I was always taught at my riding school and then pony club to always leave a one-horse length gap in front and do all I can to avoid encroaching on another horse's space in a warm-up arena, does this not apply when hunting? As I said, a genuine question as I've never hunted.
 
annagain said:
As a non-hunter and therefore one who is unaware of hunting etiquette, I'm intrigued by the comments that blame the girl for "allowing" her pony to kick the other child's pony. Just wondering - and this is a genuine question - how she was supposed to have stopped it? Should there not be an onus on the rider behind not to put himself / herself in a position where he/she is likely to be kicked? I was always taught at my riding school and then pony club to always leave a one-horse length gap in front and do all I can to avoid encroaching on another horse's space in a warm-up arena, does this not apply when hunting? As I said, a genuine question as I've never hunted.
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Totally agree, as for vilifying the child, who quite possibly hadn't hunted before, for the actions of her living, breathing pony with a brain of it's own who also may not have hunted before is yet another example of hunting people doing themselves no favours at all.
 
I did think that we didn't know if her pony had been used as a stop.

I saw a visiting master's horse get kicked last year and he made the teenage rider feel pretty bad, however on the basis that he rammed up her backside when the field stopped I rather thought he should have been more careful :p. I'll assume that most won't kick unless told/red ribbon but I also don't take liberties with other horses who I and my mount don't know and I don't expect people to take liberties with mine. Frank was lucky to be allowed back after one particularly disasterous cubbing morning and a very nice huntsman- but they knew he wasn't normally like that and had just boiled over that day. It just makes sense to try and keep out of range ;).
 
marmalade76 said:
The OP has not given names, others have given a name of a hunt but there's nothing to say it is the correct hunt. Most bloodhound packs meet on a Sunday and will be have hound exercise meets now which are very popular, more popular than hunting proper and have many people out, children included. I know this from experience and I've only hunted round this neck of the woods, which is a fair old way from Cheshire.

Can't for a moment see how the law would be interested at all, the case you mention above states they were lies told about you. can't imagine the OP would make some random story about someone she doesn't even know. The very fact the thread is still here proves that.

The parents of the child should thoroughly ashamed, I would be.
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Some interesting points here.
I do say, in several places, that I can't be sure that it is the same hunt.
It's possible in theory that another bloodhound pack was out on Sunday on hound exercise with 100 riders and a small number of hounds and a male child of around 10 was riding a pony that got kicked by a teenage girl's pony but there was no damage done.
But just in case it was the same pack, I'm here to give a different version of the story as I was there. I've also spoken to other people who were there, just to check in case others heard any swearing, but no-one did.


Why would a person make up some 'random story about someone she doesn't even know'... do you know, for certain, that this is the case (ie, she doesn't know them?). And unfortunately people have all sorts of motives for saying things. I am absolutely not accusing anyone here because I don't have the evidence that we are talking about the same thing. But what I am questioning is people's total acceptance of stories posted on forums. It actually goes beyond this because there was then reference by the OP to someone saying the child got it from his mother - again, did the OP just accept this without question? It would seem so, but how do we know that the person who allegedly said it was telling the truth?
When you think about it, the whole OP is academic because it isn't even a 'what should I do' or 'WWYD" post, but a 'what should I have done?' The incident is over, it was an unfortunate thing that resulted in no particular injury and has been blown out of proportion. There is very little value in discussing what someone should have done.

if the story refers to the incident I witnessed on Sunday then I would contest it in the strongest terms as I don't believe it is acceptable to sling mud in this way. If - and the 'if' is very important here - it is the same child and mother, then they are friends of mine and I do not like my friends being falsely represented in this way. I assume that you would defend your own friends in a similar situation if you thought there was a danger of others getting hold of the wrong end of the stick.

If it refers to a completely different story then all is well and I cannot say whether it happened or not.

However, the pack was (innocently) named and people then started to make comments linked to the rides being 'badly organised'. This is not the case at all.

Ponies get kicked out hunting. Mine has been kicked. I wouldn't blame the rider of a 'hyper' pony for a kick, but if the unfortunate does happen, then
it's reasonable to expect that person to check that the kicked pony and its rider were OK. In the case I witnessed, this did not happen.
 
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Tbh I am kind of shocked at some of the posts here.

Saying the teenager who could possibly also be a minor deserves 'all she gets' for her living breathing animal kicking another horse is quite sad.. especially when you don't have all the facts to the how's and whys surrounding the incident.
 
risky business said:
Tbh I am kind of shocked at some of the posts here.

Saying the teenager who could possibly also be a minor deserves 'all she gets' for her living breathing animal kicking another horse is quite sad.. especially when you don't have all the facts to the how's and whys surrounding the incident.
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I agree rb, especially when we're not certain exactly what she did 'get'.
In the incident that I witnessed on Sunday the girl did not 'get' anything, certainly not any foul mouthed abuse.
 
Is it not possible that the girl didn't actually know what she should do, and was shocked and worried about what had happened.
I know I completely froze and had to be reminded by a friend that it was appropriate to tell mine off for lifting a leg at a hound!- and I was older than a teen :p. It is of course obvious but I was at the time rather shocked.

ycmb doesn't strike me as the sort of person to have invented such an incident so it is quite possibly different ones.
 
annagain said:
As a non-hunter and therefore one who is unaware of hunting etiquette, I'm intrigued by the comments that blame the girl for "allowing" her pony to kick the other child's pony. Just wondering - and this is a genuine question - how she was supposed to have stopped it? Should there not be an onus on the rider behind not to put himself / herself in a position where he/she is likely to be kicked? I was always taught at my riding school and then pony club to always leave a one-horse length gap in front and do all I can to avoid encroaching on another horse's space in a warm-up arena, does this not apply when hunting? As I said, a genuine question as I've never hunted.
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When horses are hunting it's expected that horses will have to get quite close together and so shouldn't kick just because a strange horse gets close to them while your establishing it you put a green ribbon on your horse as a warning to remind people not to crowd your 'green out hunting' horse. So the one horse distance doesn't really apply. If your horse can't cope with this and kicks out you'd put red on them and then keep them at the back or away from the group so there's space so they don't feel the need to kick.
When I introduced my horse to hunting he was anxious about crowding so I mostly kept him clear of group and shouted at him if he thought of raising a leg (if he'd have kicked out i'd have used a stick to tell him it's not acceptable behavior).

On the other hand I personally wouldn't have blamed the girls horse for kicking if another horse had ran into the back of her or nipped her horse but in previous post was trying to take the view the boy might have had good reason for swearing.

I was going off trying to think of reason boy would have reasonable sworn.
 
Amicus said:
When horses are hunting it's expected that horses will have to get quite close together and so shouldn't kick just because a strange horse gets close to them while your establishing it you put a green ribbon on your horse as a warning to remind people not to crowd your 'green out hunting' horse. So the one horse distance doesn't really apply. If your horse can't cope with this and kicks out you'd put red on them and then keep them at the back or away from the group so there's space so they don't feel the need to kick.
When I introduced my horse to hunting he was anxious about crowding so I mostly kept him clear of group and shouted at him if he thought of raising a leg (if he'd have kicked out i'd have used a stick to tell him it's not acceptable behavior).

On the other hand I personally wouldn't have blamed the girls horse for kicking if another horse had ran into the back of her or nipped her horse but in previous post was trying to take the view the boy might have had good reason for swearing.

I was going off trying to think of reason boy would have reasonable sworn.
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Thanks for explaining. I get the ribbon thing, and that in the hunting field it's not always possible to keep distances but can also see that a horse may act completely out of character and that 'these things happen'. I suppose it's the "allowed to kick" comment I was surprised at mostly, I'm not sure how much a rider can do to stop it unless the horse is threatening first (in which case of course it should be taken away from the potential situation). I've seen many horses (in the field and one or two under saddle) go from standing quietly to lashing out in a split second.
 
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