Fox attack on baby.
- Thread starter kirstykate
- Start date
VoR
Well-Known Member
Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
Sheer class Maesfen 
I'd agree that people feeding foxes in the city is a problem.
I'd agree that people who are crap dog owners are a problem.
Seems to be a pattern here.
I'd agree that people feeding foxes in the city is a problem.
I'd agree that people who are crap dog owners are a problem.
Seems to be a pattern here.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
Lol, just sorry I can't take the credit for them!
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
It's not just people feeding foxes, our rubbish is collected every two weeks, you have to use the council provided and rationed wheelie bins which are usually overflowing by day 5 and for food waste we are given plastic bags to put it in which not only attracts foxes but much worse imo rats.
Add to that half eaten takeaways which even if they are put in a bin are easily accessible.
There is a patch of ground opposite me where foxes live, there are cubs every year. No one feeds them, they don't have to as there is plenty of food around anyway.
Add to that half eaten takeaways which even if they are put in a bin are easily accessible.
There is a patch of ground opposite me where foxes live, there are cubs every year. No one feeds them, they don't have to as there is plenty of food around anyway.
Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
Interesting that on a forum like this where people are keen on fox hunting, that the mention of urban foxes has people running around like headless chickens, excuse the pun,
. Most city dwellers appear to like to see foxes about. In reality foxes pose little threat to anyone, babies or whatever and all this is hype and a bit suspect too, if reports of the latest incident are true. However, country people like to display their superior knowledge of foxes and spout the biggest load of old twaddle they can make up, so we hear of packs forming who have lost their fear of humans stalking our children in the dead of night.Urban foxes scavenge, and take rats, thats about the size of it, and have been in the cities for decades, well before WWII.
The relationship between rural folk and foxes is an odd one where the fox takes care of the hunt and the hunt take care of the fox. I well remember discussions in our kitchen when I was a child about the best place to let a fox go on the hunt days.
kirstykate
Well-Known Member
So who or what controls the number of Urban Foxes? Which obviously needs to be addressed?
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
Availability of food, cars and mange.
The average lifespan of an urban fox is 15 - 18 months, it was 18 a few years ago but saw some recent figures which suggested it had gone down to 15months. Most are hit by cars but mange is enough of a problem that some get it bad enough to succumb to it.
How much food is available will also control numbers.
There are a few round here and don't cause any problems but then I wouldn't approach one and would treat it like the wild animal it is. I would also never leave any accessible window or door open as living in London I'd be worried about far worse getting in than a fox.
BTW there is a theory among local people that the attack was probably a dog about the same size but because the family were not allowed pets as part of their tenancy and would be evicted they are lying.
kirstykate
Well-Known Member
I see I have never lived in a city so I wouldnt have a clue. As for the theory well the family should be............
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
But why on earth would pro hunting people talk with one voice , it's a group of individuals and within the group there will differing views on all sorts of things ,it's not like the moonies holding different thoughts on things is allowed if you are pro hunt.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I find this extremely unlikely. I read that they were council tenants in a house, not a flat. Every Council/Housing Association house tenant I know is allowed to keep pets.
Neither would they be evicted for keeping a dog, they would simply be told to rehome the dog.
It sounds like just the kind of "blame the parents" stuff that comes up every time a child is injured by an urban fox. Why would any self-respecting fox who's been fed by humans and lost its fear NOT try to take a soft plump helpless little animal that smells of milk and poo?
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Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
Sarcoptic mange has severely reduced fox numbers and the total number of urban foxes in Britain is probably much the same as a decade ago, depending.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Why is this thread in "Hunting"?
This incident has absolutely no relationship to fox hunting whatsoever, other than it was a fox.
This incident has absolutely no relationship to fox hunting whatsoever, other than it was a fox.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I can't recall with certainty if they did or they didn't but it stands to reason that a ban would have an effect: fewer foxes being killed through hunting = more pressure on natural habitats = more foxes being pushed into urban living = urban foxes gradually losing their fear of humans (especially silly humans who think they're cutesy-wutesy pseudo-dogs and feed them
Except that it is widely accepted that there are FEWER foxes in the countryside since the ban, partly because the farmers remove them instead of leaving them for the hunt.
Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
I suppose if you demonise urban foxes it may have a knock on effect and people may decide the fox hunting ban was a bad idea.
If fox rural numbers are falling though, no need to reverse the ban.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Probally because the fox was errr.... hunting.
Pale Rider
Well-Known Member
Lol, there really should be a like button on some of these.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
I personally think it could just as easily be a fox or a dog and it is pure gossip from people in the area who claimed other inaccuracies in the news reports.
but a no animal clause in a tenancy or even in the leasehold terms (remember most london houses as well as flats are leasehold ) is very common in both local authority and private sector housing. Maybe it's a London thing.
And yes they would evict someone, especially if they were looking for an excuse if the family had been problematic. With such a long waiting lists and pressure on housing they are getting much quicker to evict and if someone is evicted because they have broken the terms of a tenancy agreement they would be deemed to have made themselves voluntarily homeless and the council would not have to rehouse.
What I can say is that I don't walk home at night dodging packs of foxes, there don't seem to be any more than when I first moved to London 20 years ago and they don't seem any more aggressive though they have always been much less wary of humans than in the country.
There will always be foxes while there is so much available food waste lying around like a buffet and maybe people should treat them like the wild animals they are and keep their doors shut to keep out foxes, rats, dogs, kids, burglars and the occasional tramp who you might find sleeping in your hallway. (the latter actually did happen a couple of weeks ago)
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
It's something that is said to me by pro hunters on every single discussion I have had with them on this forum Alec. I assume that they are telling me the truth.
Whatever, this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with fox hunting in the HHO sense of this particular forum.
happyhunter123
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Should be in news section.
Anyway, I don't think it looks good for hunting people to look like they're involved or bothered with incidents like this. They shouldn't comment on them publicly (in the press). Hunting should stay out of it. Otherwise you end up with stupid stories like this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/07/stop-hounding-britain-urban-foxes
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cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Do you live on that council estate, Criso or is this Chinese whispers? Who exactly told you this local gossip and who told them?
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
I'm up in North London, different class of foxes up here
Friend of a friend was posting on fb claiming to live on the estate. Claimed there were factual inaccuracies in the Daily Fail story
Did I ask my friend how long they had known this person? how reliable they are? No
That's why I referred to it as gossip and theories not fact or a reliable report.
Ps I didn't notice this was in the Hunting forum, I always browse via New Posts so sometimes don't notice.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
I can't accept your first paragraph, for the simple reason that very few farmers actually give a flying fig, about, or know anything of, their very own fox population. Despite what they may tell you, your advisors are leading you astray! Your second paragraph, I agree! This is a strange section for such debate!!
Alec.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
That might have happened where you are but not around here.
VoR
Well-Known Member
It's all a huge conspiracy, clearly the parents and any witnesses are hunting folk or alternatively are totally incapable of identifying a fox from a dog....
That said, I agree with those that say this has nothing to do with hunting BUT, I have noticed of late, largely due to the weather/being flooded out I dare say, that foxes near us (countryside btw) are getting bolder and are being seen more often near houses and in daylight...............will 'an attack' happen in the countryside? Who knows. Will it have any relevance to hunting? Probably not, just an observation!
Also, (I agree with Maesfen) whilst we as a hunt get reports of many foxes being shot, there do seem to be as many, if not MORE foxes in our area (this is by no means scientific I accept again, just an observation).
That said, I agree with those that say this has nothing to do with hunting BUT, I have noticed of late, largely due to the weather/being flooded out I dare say, that foxes near us (countryside btw) are getting bolder and are being seen more often near houses and in daylight...............will 'an attack' happen in the countryside? Who knows. Will it have any relevance to hunting? Probably not, just an observation!
Also, (I agree with Maesfen) whilst we as a hunt get reports of many foxes being shot, there do seem to be as many, if not MORE foxes in our area (this is by no means scientific I accept again, just an observation).
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cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Sorry Maesfen, I thought I had made it clear but obviously not. It is not what has happened in my area, because it's clear from many of my previous posts on hunting that my area has not been hunted on horseback for 20 years.
It is, however, what I have been told in posts by supporters of fox hunting each time I participate in any long running discussion about fox hunting on this forum.
I don't know what area you are in, but maybe it is one of the many with a hunt which is again hunting fox, or perhaps your farmers just don't snare and shoot them like they do in other areas?
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Well I stick my head up and say I see far fewer foxes than I did before the ban ,
Not a scientific view in any way just my impression based on hacking around.
Not a scientific view in any way just my impression based on hacking around.
happyhunter123
Well-Known Member
That's quite an allegation to make. One of the many areas is going a bit far. Which reminds me that I was going to PM Countryman. Anyway, lets not get onto that.
Fox numbers around me have probably dropped in the past few years, partly to do with the loss of hunting (the pack that I hunt with carries out no form of fox control) but largely due to the growth in shooting. I rarely see a fox now.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
Actually, that was a surprisingly sensible article - considering the author is RABIDLY anti-hunting and has been a thorn in our sides for a long time. He has received quite substantial funding from LACS (though that was 'laundered' in an attempt to keep it secret) and from IFAW (there were attempts to disguise that too!)
I haven't seen too many hunting people jumping on this bandwagon though - these attacks ARE by urban foxes, who are very different to rural foxes. They're unlikely to happen in rural areas as rural foxes tend to have more fear of both humans and dogs!