Fox cubs found in a barn near Middleton Hunt kennels

[Alec Swan]

Alec, whatever happens to the cubs now, I think we can be certain that they won't be tossed to hounds. I hope that, once old enough, they will released into the wild at a suitable locality, to take their chances.

Yep, apparently no offence has been committed, so after due questioning to establish this, the person arrested was allowed to walk. However, “police need further information as to how they got in the barn, why they were there, and who put them there.”

So, plenty of unanswered questions.

Para 1: The practice of the rspca, so we're advised, releasing semi-domesticated foxes in to the wild, with no chance of any sort of life. It isn't 'freedom' as they've not the faintest idea how to care for themselves following a diet of Chum!

Para 2: 'How they got in to the barn, why they were there and who put them there', are irrelevancies if there has been no criminal offence.

para 3: What questions would you like answered?

Alec.

 

[Tiddlypom]

para 3: What questions would you like answered?

Alec.

The questions raised by the police in para 2.. Someone knows, but they aren't telling, and aren't likely to, either.

It's hardly the fault of the RSPCA, or whichever organisation currently has the cubs, that they may be semi domesticated, is it?! Its the fault of whoever put them in the barn and kept them there.

 

[Alec Swan]

The questions raised by the police in para 2.. Someone knows, but they aren't telling, and aren't likely to, either.

It's hardly the fault of the RSPCA, or whichever organisation currently has the cubs, that they may be semi domesticated, is it?! Its the fault of whoever put them in the barn and kept them there.

If the person keeping the cubs is released without charge and if no criminal offences have been committed, then the Police have no business asking questions, or none that the previously charged person needs to answer. The Police are officers of the Law, they aren't a moral mirror!

If the cubs concerned, and whoever now has them, rears them in a semi-domesticated fashion, then yes, they certainly are responsible and would carry a greater degree of culpability than the person from whom they were taken.

Alec.

 

[Tea Drinker]

T_D,

I would never allow a dog of mine anywhere near a sow and her piglets. Sows are the most protective of mothers and potentially dangerous! Similarly, I would be most surprised if a fox managed to get away with predating piglets. A screaming piglet will have the 'pigman' looking over his shoulder, never mind Toby!

I would wonder if your tenant isn't exaggerating his woes in an attempt to stay any increase in his rent! I'm sorry, but claims that foxes are predating pigs and in a fashion likely to have any economic effect, would stretch credulity, a trifle! We have many outdoor pig units here and we also have foxes in high numbers, but the damage done by Toby, is of little importance. It may well be, of course, that your pigs differ from ours.

Alec.

You can be very arrogant at times, Alec.
Yes, clearly our pig unit set up must be different to those in your area. Amazing. Imagine that?!
If you would be "most surprised" to find out a fox could nab a piglet, then I would be "most surprised" if you had any hands on experience of pig breeding in a unit as large as ours.
We have a number of pens without sows where piglets are raised orphan style. We produce about 2000 piglets a month off this unit and there are plenty of rich pickings for the foxes that abound in the neighbouring forestry. 14 down one earth is the record so far.
The foxes also 'worry' the sows which is never good for pregnancy.

 

[Tiddlypom]

If the person keeping the cubs is released without charge and if no criminal offences have been committed, then the Police have no business asking questions, or none that the previously charged person needs to answer. The Police are officers of the Law, they aren't a moral mirror!

The police have every right to continue asking questions if they still suspect that an offence may have been committed, or was going to be committed. They may reckon that they only have been told part of the of story about the cubs. If they get further information which is relevant, they could well rearrest the original suspect.

If the cubs concerned, and whoever now has them, rears them in a semi-domesticated fashion, then yes, they certainly are responsible and would carry a greater degree of culpability than the person from whom they were taken.

Alec.

I imagine that whoever has the cubs now, is doing their damnedest to avoid domesticating them any more than they already were after their sojourn in the barn. The RSPCA has four dedicated wildlife centres, such as this one in Cheshire.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/local/stapeley-grange-wildlife-centre/

Hopefully the cubs will have been taken to somewhere like this, with experience of determining the best course of action to be taken. Maybe they may have to be culled. A fox who has not/cannot learn how to hunt or forage for itself may well turn rogue if released to fend for itself. Foxes are hardly an endangered species, are they?

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

https://www.rspca.org.uk/local/stapeley-grange-wildlife-centre/

Hopefully the cubs will have been taken to somewhere like this, with experience of determining the best course of action to be taken. Maybe they may have to be culled. A fox who has not/cannot learn how to hunt or forage for itself may well turn rogue if released to fend for itself. Foxes are hardly an endangered species, are they?

Foxes as individuals aren't 'rogues', that would assume that there are those foxes which have some understanding of what's acceptable! A Fox is a Fox, no more or less. I'm more than surprised to read that you consider that they may be 'culled', when had they been left where they were, they would have leached out of their former home, as they would from an 'earth', returned for feed until they were able to stand on their own feet, and then melted in to their local environment.

Assuming that the packs local to Cheshire are aware of the 'rescue' programme of the rspca, I'm left wondering if the charity concerned are aware that they are performing the very same service to our countryside and our vulpine population as the chap who previously held the cubs! Do you see the irony, or are you suggesting that the cubs should be euthanised to be certain that they never run before hounds, and also of course, that they never fulfil any normal purpose, their lives?

There is evidence, so I'm advised by an rspca inspector chum, that adult foxes are routinely rescued and released without the faintest idea where they are, or how to survive. The said chum has voiced his concerns, regarding the practice, and within the rspca and was warned of his future employment!

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

Alec,

We sublet land for a an outdoor pig breading unit. When foxes go plundering, it is lost revenue to the pig farm.

……...

You can be very arrogant at times, Alec.
……..!
If you would be "most surprised" to find out a fox could nab a piglet, then I would be "most surprised" if you had any hands on experience of pig breeding in a unit as large as ours.
We have a number of pens without sows where piglets are raised orphan style. We produce about 2000 piglets a month off this unit and there are plenty of rich pickings for the foxes that abound in the neighbouring forestry. ……...

So we've moved from 'plundering' which would affect, as you say, a serious economic influence upon those who farm pigs, to 'nabbing' which would imply the loss of the odd single piglet. No one would deny that the odd fox has taken the odd piglet, but as with lambs, the young are generally dead before being taken. I will again assure you that our vulpine population is of no (or at least very little) economic detriment, despite the advice which you appear to rely upon.

As for 'orphans' being reared in individual units, most who breed pigs commercially, will place piglets from the larger litters with those sows which have but a few. If you trouble yourself to check, you'll learn that sows will generally accept just about anything which relieves the discomfort of a burdensome milk supply! Rearing piglets artificially isn't economically feasible, and why do it when there are existing sows who will readily accept piglets which aren't actually theirs?

Do I have any factual experience of livestock? I'm not a Landlord who gleans what they can from their tenants, I'm a tenant farmer, and livestock are my life. Beyond that I'll make no claims to be an authority.

I'm sorry that you find me to be arrogant, and can only assure you that it's one of my more desirable traits!

Alec.