CinnamonChristmasCookie
Fais pas chier!
Someone i know who is very passionate about animal welfare is claiming that the people who used to hunt are now those who are culling badgers. I just don't see the link myself. Thoughts?
Fox hunting = badger cull participants?
- Thread starter CinnamonChristmasCookie
- Start date
SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
**Shrugs** :confused3:
Im not up for the Badger cull personally, feels like yet another knee jerk reaction but I dont get the link to fox hunting..???
Im not up for the Badger cull personally, feels like yet another knee jerk reaction but I dont get the link to fox hunting..???
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
New one to me, though suppose (in a strange roundabout way, maybe?) it could be something to do with hunting folk volunteering to take part in the cull as they are more 'hardened' to the actual killing as opposed non hunters? Dunno!
AmyMay
Situation normal
Makes sense.
Luci07
Well-Known Member
Fallacy. I support hunting. Am ambivalent about the badger cull as have not found anything clear cut on either side.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
They are using marksmen to cull the badgers I can't think of one marksman who hunts with the hunt here.
lula
Well-Known Member
seems to me just another media myth perpetuated by the ignorant to try to make a case for rubbsih such as how fox hunters are by nature sadistic psychopaths who would jump at the chance to legally kill any wildlife available.
Festivepony
Well-Known Member
That's how it sounds to me too. I don't think people who hunt do it just because they like to kill animals regardless of the reasons or method.
pansy
Well-Known Member
Maybe the association is Farmers who let the hunt use their land may be pro the badger cull ? Therefore making anyone who is pro hunting or has had anything to do with the hunt pro the cull ??
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Bit of a leap , I hunt and am definatly not pro the cull.
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
Mmm I can sort of see where Pansy is coming from on that one. I think he/she is suggesting that a high percentage of farmers will be pro hunt, and therefore let the hunt use their land, and also by the very fact they are farmers, a high percentage will also be pro cull?
pansy
Well-Known Member
I am not saying that I agree with what I said but just that the generalisation may be made ,by people who do not have all the relevant facts & also people that further want to discredit hunting x
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
The cull which if I have it right is being organised by the NFU is a trial .
I have read a bit about it I have to say it just does not made sense to me .
But that's the advantage of a trial you get to see if it works.
Many farmers do not allow hunting on their land and many who have hunting on their land probally would not allow it if they owned the rights to prevent it .
It too simplistic to make a sweeping judgement like that.
There's no connection between hunting and the badger cull it's night shooting difficult to do even for the well trained I have no idea how they going to get through the numbers they need to .
I have read a bit about it I have to say it just does not made sense to me .
But that's the advantage of a trial you get to see if it works.
Many farmers do not allow hunting on their land and many who have hunting on their land probally would not allow it if they owned the rights to prevent it .
It too simplistic to make a sweeping judgement like that.
There's no connection between hunting and the badger cull it's night shooting difficult to do even for the well trained I have no idea how they going to get through the numbers they need to .
kentridingclubber
Well-Known Member
Their either joking or stupid! That's my thought !
I can only presume they mean farmers/country people which is a sweeping statement if ever i heard one.
I really enjoy reading a good debate on topics which are relevant to my way of living, but I find it difficult considering the against arguements when they are based on zero fact, knowledge or sense which is a shame as I enjoy having my views challenged.
Would agree with Lulas comments, statements such as this are very ignorant, which dilutes the persons cause greatly, which is a shame if they are passionate about their beliefs.
texas
Well-Known Member
I looked up a huntsman on Facebook earlier and he has liked several pro badger cull pages. I've no idea if he partakes or not but he obviously supports that opinion.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Of course many people living in the country support this trial cull many work in ,own or are close to people whose buisnesses are being damaged by TB.
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
Sweeping statement to discredit hunting.
The cull is a trial to see what the effect on TB in cattle will be - where is the connection to hunting?
There may be people who are shooting the badgers who must have prior experience and therefore almost certainly have shot foxes - again, where is the connection with hunting?
As for the badger cull itself, there was quite a long discussion about this on the Latest News when it first started, and I contributed quite a lot, so look that up if you need more information. There IS proof that getting rid of infected wildlife reduced TB in cattle and I can't understand why people still disagree with this, it is FACT.
Whether or not the Trial Cull will help much we have yet to see.
The cull is a trial to see what the effect on TB in cattle will be - where is the connection to hunting?
There may be people who are shooting the badgers who must have prior experience and therefore almost certainly have shot foxes - again, where is the connection with hunting?
As for the badger cull itself, there was quite a long discussion about this on the Latest News when it first started, and I contributed quite a lot, so look that up if you need more information. There IS proof that getting rid of infected wildlife reduced TB in cattle and I can't understand why people still disagree with this, it is FACT.
Whether or not the Trial Cull will help much we have yet to see.
CinnamonChristmasCookie
Fais pas chier!
hnmisty
Well-Known Member
Well, I don't hunt but I support the badger cull!
Totally agree that if this rumour is going round, then it is an attempt to further discredit hunts. Let's face it, I expect most of the badger huggers are very anti hunt.
Badgers are being culled by marksmen. Some of them may hunt. Some of them won't. Some of them will drink tea, and some of them won't. It's a bit irrelevant really.
Totally agree that if this rumour is going round, then it is an attempt to further discredit hunts. Let's face it, I expect most of the badger huggers are very anti hunt.
Badgers are being culled by marksmen. Some of them may hunt. Some of them won't. Some of them will drink tea, and some of them won't. It's a bit irrelevant really.
pony&cow
Well-Known Member
Oh dear!!!!!!!!!
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
It is really the same as saying that huntsman helped with the F&M travesty. They did, as they are efficient with a humane killer/gun and volunteered to take part to help the farmers. They were genereally regarded as much better than the fairly useless general slaughter teams.
BUT I don't know that many hunting people who are marksman, a couple yes and I expect they would be pleased to go and help but I can't see the fact that they hunt being the deciding factor.
The people doing the badger cull will be enjoying the shooting - if you didn't why would you have a rifle and jump through all the hoops to get a firearms license? No reason why they shouldn't, either.
BUT I don't know that many hunting people who are marksman, a couple yes and I expect they would be pleased to go and help but I can't see the fact that they hunt being the deciding factor.
The people doing the badger cull will be enjoying the shooting - if you didn't why would you have a rifle and jump through all the hoops to get a firearms license? No reason why they shouldn't, either.
MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
I wonder if the link is because of Charlotte Townshend, the joint master of the Cattistock hunt ? She is allowing the cull to take part on her land, part of which is in the second cull area and part is in the standby zone.
Due to public outrage, she has had to step down from her roll as patron of the Dorset Wildlife Trust (!)
No one knows who the marksmen are as the whole cull is shrouded in secrecy but the two companies organising the marksmen are Gloscon and HNV Associates Ltd.
The Shadow Environment secretary has asked for numbers of culled badgers to be released as reports indicate only a 100 badgers have been killed which is far below the 2000 target. If the cull is botched, TB in cattle could increase as a direct result.
There is pressure from some quarters to use snares and gassing if the targets are not reached. I hope not.
Due to public outrage, she has had to step down from her roll as patron of the Dorset Wildlife Trust (!)
No one knows who the marksmen are as the whole cull is shrouded in secrecy but the two companies organising the marksmen are Gloscon and HNV Associates Ltd.
The Shadow Environment secretary has asked for numbers of culled badgers to be released as reports indicate only a 100 badgers have been killed which is far below the 2000 target. If the cull is botched, TB in cattle could increase as a direct result.
There is pressure from some quarters to use snares and gassing if the targets are not reached. I hope not.
Centauress
Well-Known Member
How about Stopping the Governments Cull Of the Sick and Disabled???????
Sorry So VERY Annoyed That the Badger Cull is News and NOT a Dicky is Said about All those that Have Lost Their Live Due to the Cruel Welfare Reforms!!!!!
Sorry So VERY Annoyed That the Badger Cull is News and NOT a Dicky is Said about All those that Have Lost Their Live Due to the Cruel Welfare Reforms!!!!!
MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
100% agree.
Echo Bravo
Well-Known Member
People believe what they want to believe, no matter what the truth is.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I don't see why any link would even be relevant or of interest to anyone? Using marksman means that they probably hunt in some form or other previously 
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
A possible explanation is that someone has their wires crossed!
A lot of fox control is done at night with a rifle using a powerful spotlight by an experienced person who has the landowner's permission and is licensed by the police to own and use firearms. That, to many, will be fox hunting as it is done by someone who hunts foxes -- but with a rifle and not hounds!
Culling badgers in this way is probably more acceptable to Joe Public because it sounds more humane and there are already quite a few people in the countryside who can do it.
I gather badgers are culled in Ireland using the same rifle/spotlight technique but also with snares. Snares are not politically correct here in the UK and there are moves to ban them outright (that may have been done already, I'm not up-to-date on such things).
To state a fact without an opinion, badgers are not difficult to snare but they are strong animals and can suffer in a snare more than foxes which are more difficult to snare. Badgers often have clearly defined runs, foxes do not and, unless young, foxes are generally trap wise. As I've said, I have no opinion on the methods used either way.
I do know Bovine TB is a terrible disease and it has increased exponentially since the badger was protected. Previous to this legislation, country people managed badgers (which have no natural predators) perfectly well. The problem badgers were removed and the harmless ones were tolerated. They were never in danger of extinction and never would be. The situation has got completely out of control.
A lot of fox control is done at night with a rifle using a powerful spotlight by an experienced person who has the landowner's permission and is licensed by the police to own and use firearms. That, to many, will be fox hunting as it is done by someone who hunts foxes -- but with a rifle and not hounds!
Culling badgers in this way is probably more acceptable to Joe Public because it sounds more humane and there are already quite a few people in the countryside who can do it.
I gather badgers are culled in Ireland using the same rifle/spotlight technique but also with snares. Snares are not politically correct here in the UK and there are moves to ban them outright (that may have been done already, I'm not up-to-date on such things).
To state a fact without an opinion, badgers are not difficult to snare but they are strong animals and can suffer in a snare more than foxes which are more difficult to snare. Badgers often have clearly defined runs, foxes do not and, unless young, foxes are generally trap wise. As I've said, I have no opinion on the methods used either way.
I do know Bovine TB is a terrible disease and it has increased exponentially since the badger was protected. Previous to this legislation, country people managed badgers (which have no natural predators) perfectly well. The problem badgers were removed and the harmless ones were tolerated. They were never in danger of extinction and never would be. The situation has got completely out of control.
RunToEarth
Well-Known Member
I think it is just the common misconception that anyone into what was traditionally seen as a bloodsport is just blood hungry and up for killing anything.
Good marksmen come from all walks of life but like GS I can't think of anyone involved with our hunt who would have the skills to become involved with the cull on that level.
I suppose there are a good deal of landowners who are supporters of hunting, and supportive of the cull, depending on their experiences with bTB.
I think we all have to remember that behind the science debate lies a very emotive subject. I personally can see the weaknesses with the cull, but I don't believe they should have had such exclusive protection in the first place. When you protect something which has no natural predators, the obvious consequence is population explosion...
Good marksmen come from all walks of life but like GS I can't think of anyone involved with our hunt who would have the skills to become involved with the cull on that level.
I suppose there are a good deal of landowners who are supporters of hunting, and supportive of the cull, depending on their experiences with bTB.
I think we all have to remember that behind the science debate lies a very emotive subject. I personally can see the weaknesses with the cull, but I don't believe they should have had such exclusive protection in the first place. When you protect something which has no natural predators, the obvious consequence is population explosion...
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
The badger cull is politically expedient to show farmers that at last the Government can be seen to be doing something about the massive and increasing TB problem, without upsetting the public too much - who seem to think that a badger is a nice fellow that the nasty farmers want to wipe off the face of the earth.
I suspect that anyone opposed to hunting would automatically be opposed to any sort of badger culling. I think it is extremely difficult to kill any wild animal humanely, but for the general public the idea of a "clean kill" is more acceptable than other methods.
When TB was virtually eliminated from the UK, the method used was gassing of whole setts. Since the setts go very deep and are extensive it was hard to prove that the gas reached the far ends, but it was generally effective and I believe that this is the method still used in other countries.
I suspect that anyone opposed to hunting would automatically be opposed to any sort of badger culling. I think it is extremely difficult to kill any wild animal humanely, but for the general public the idea of a "clean kill" is more acceptable than other methods.
When TB was virtually eliminated from the UK, the method used was gassing of whole setts. Since the setts go very deep and are extensive it was hard to prove that the gas reached the far ends, but it was generally effective and I believe that this is the method still used in other countries.
jrp204
Well-Known Member
And of course the Hunt Sabateurs Assoc are not encouraging the disruption or the cull http://hsa.enviroweb.org/index.php/news/recent-news/427-hunt-saboteurs-badgers-last-line-of-defence, seems that 'rent a mob' are in action too.