s4sugar
Well-Known Member
If you say French bulldog you mean that breed...American Bulldog is another breed and Bulldog is the original breed and Bulldog is the full title. Not difficult.
Foxhound v Pointer
- Thread starter Shrimpy
- Start date
If you say French bulldog you mean that breed...American Bulldog is another breed and Bulldog is the original breed and Bulldog is the full title. Not difficult.
millitiger
Well-Known Member
I've got a GSP and he is great.
Endless energy (mine would not be suitable living in a town with owners at work all day), unfailingly loyal and generally just the best canine friend I could ask for.
They are bred to be working dogs and imo, not suited to a domestic home where they are walked for 30 mins 2x a day and shut in the rest of the time- too much energy and too intelligent!
I've never had any recall issues with mine; he loves hunting and stalking things but always comes straight back when I whistle and I'm really no great shakes at dog training!
Endless energy (mine would not be suitable living in a town with owners at work all day), unfailingly loyal and generally just the best canine friend I could ask for.
They are bred to be working dogs and imo, not suited to a domestic home where they are walked for 30 mins 2x a day and shut in the rest of the time- too much energy and too intelligent!
I've never had any recall issues with mine; he loves hunting and stalking things but always comes straight back when I whistle and I'm really no great shakes at dog training!
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
Correct. The Pointer is the English Pointer. The other pointers of which others speak, are Hunter/Pointer/Retrievers, a generic term known as HPRs, and they are all of Continental origin. The HPRs are not JUST Pointers, they have other duties.
The English Pointer was bred to range for anything up to 1000 yards from its handler. There may be those which now walk to heal off a lead, but they were never bred for that purpose. They tend to be free spirits, and though my experience of watching them on moorland, is very limited, from what I've seen, they are captivating. They were never bred for a domestic or an urban existence.
Well, that's what I think! Dry Rot's the man to talk to about "Pointers"!
Alec.
competitiondiva
Well-Known Member
Correct. The Pointer is the English Pointer. The other pointers of which others speak, are Hunter/Pointer/Retrievers, a generic term known as HPRs, and they are all of Continental origin. The HPRs are not JUST Pointers, they have other duties.
The English Pointer was bred to range for anything up to 1000 yards from its handler. There may be those which now walk to heal off a lead, but they were never bred for that purpose. They tend to be free spirits, and though my experience of watching them on moorland, is very limited, from what I've seen, they are captivating. They were never bred for a domestic or an urban existence.
Well, that's what I think! Dry Rot's the man to talk to about "Pointers"!
Alec.
Thank you for that. (smiley face)
Springy
Well-Known Member
I disagree
my fox hound isnt agressive
He likes cats and dogs and people he is left in the house when we go out and he doesnt trash it
He is loveing and loyal
He can sometimes go off the lead but not alot as when the nos goes down the ears go off
LIKE A STAFFY OR SIMILAR ITS DEED NOT BREED
dont dismiss dogs just because you are thinking of hunting packs of hounds not a pet who eats dry dog food and lives as part of a family
my fox hound isnt agressive
He likes cats and dogs and people he is left in the house when we go out and he doesnt trash it
He is loveing and loyal
He can sometimes go off the lead but not alot as when the nos goes down the ears go off
LIKE A STAFFY OR SIMILAR ITS DEED NOT BREED
dont dismiss dogs just because you are thinking of hunting packs of hounds not a pet who eats dry dog food and lives as part of a family
competitiondiva
Well-Known Member
am curious springy, did you have yours from a pup or was it previously a pack/hunting dog?
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
Well, that's what I think! Dry Rot's the man to talk to about "Pointers"!
Alec.
...and Dry Rot is keeping his hypothetical mouth firmly closed....
Springy
Well-Known Member
He as 6 when we got him he is now 8.5 (estimated)
He was used by poacher effectively for rabbits seagulls and other small animals
He was kept in an allotment with his brother and they both worked as a pair.He was in foxhound rescue for about 10 months or so to be rehabilitated.
Most of them going through there havent been in a hunting pack as that isnt the done thing these are dogs where numpties have had them to 'hunt' in their own stupid way or people have bought the as pups like big beagles when they look cute then forget the need walked etc
He is now fine with bunnys and birds etc
I have hundereds of photos of him being a 'dog' not a savage hunter as people would assume he is
The postman is scared stiff of him as he howls rather than barks lol
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Springy
Well-Known Member
is is the savage hunting unsuitable for a house beast right now as I type...
They arent for everyone they are like big beagles and like all hounds ie beagles bassets etc he has his own quirks Selective hearing etc
But we love him
They arent for everyone they are like big beagles and like all hounds ie beagles bassets etc he has his own quirks Selective hearing etc
But we love him
Bedlam
Well-Known Member
...and Dry Rot is keeping his hypothetical mouth firmly closed....
You have a hypothetical mouth....?
My Pointer was working bred and a beautiful, gentle creature with the capacity to run for miles and miles. I had her for 18 months without a problem and thought I was doing really well with the field trial training.......and then she ran off on Salisbury Plain on a Pointer club training day.
I sent her to the Lake District to the best man in the business to see if he could train her....and after 3 months he offered to shoot her because she wasn't good enough to work and in his opinion wouldn't settle as a pet. I went a bit soft and went to pick her up saying I'd give her 6 months to settle.
She kind of did and kind of didn't - always a total loony, but never a moment of malice. We had her pts last week at 16 yrs old. A super, super dog.
She would point. She would never hunt or retrieve. All she ever did was tell me that whatever I wanted was over there. She never went to get it for me. I would have needed a Labrador to do that. I loved her and her breed for that!
Huge difference between a Pointer (no need for the English prefix) and the German Short or Wire Haired Pointer - the GSP or GWP will hunt, point and retrieve. The Pointer just points. Bless it.
Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
You have a hypothetical mouth....?
Hypothetical, metaphorical...it's still staying shut!
Star_Chaser
Well-Known Member
How about a Fenlander- Springer x Weimaraner????
They are absolutely gorgeous- look like mini pointers and have the best of the two breeds!
But I am a fan of cross breeds personally
But out of the two of your choices I would probably choose a Pointer over a Foxhound, I adore FH but wouldn't own one as a family pet....
Couldn't think of anything worse crossing two breeds like that
Of the two breeds I'd opt for the pointer over the foxhound really down to commitment and the breed requirements but the one thing I do agree with the above post is that if your OH wants a larger dog of the gundog ilk there are some fabulous breeds Weimaraners are not as far ranging as the GSP and tend to be loyal to family both can be a bit aloof, if you want a wirey you have the options of the Slovak, Wirehaired Vizla, Spinone, German Wirehaired Pointer (these really need a job and are not for the faint hearted, if you want a long hair then you have the lovely Munsterlanders which are cracking dogs, the Weimaraner has a long coat version but you don't see many around. Then there are the Brittany Spaniels... I rather like these fabulous dogs go forever and have big personalities.
Why not pick a couple of breeds and go along to one of their events or contact the clubs and they can match you with local people who will come and meet you so you can see and talk about the breed on the end of the lead.
Of course if you fancy a jolly Crufts is coming up soon and they will have discover dogs... you'll see all the breeds there and might come home with something you least expected
galaxy
Well-Known Member
GSP aloof?? Never met one that isn't really into their owners and wanting to love all people they meet! H thinks he's a Chi and tries to sit on my lap!
I'm surprised by all the replies saying how far ranging they are. I have never experienced this with H (on walks he never is that far away from me and if he pops out of sight it is only for seconds) and he always recalls. He is half show lines, Half working. Maybe that makes a difference. H has about a dozen GSP friends and they all behave the same as far as I've seen. Some work and some are show lines.
I'm surprised by all the replies saying how far ranging they are. I have never experienced this with H (on walks he never is that far away from me and if he pops out of sight it is only for seconds) and he always recalls. He is half show lines, Half working. Maybe that makes a difference. H has about a dozen GSP friends and they all behave the same as far as I've seen. Some work and some are show lines.
Venevidivici
Well-Known Member
None of ours,or any others I know, are aloof. Can't say as they've ranged overly far compared to other dogs either(&came back better than my ESS ever did!) but the GSP youngster we've got is a monkey&recall is tricky at the mo,so I may be amending that soon...
millitiger
Well-Known Member
My GSP is pretty aloof.
He loves immediate family who he lives with but can be quite quiet and shy with new people and doesn't like to be fussed unless he knows the person.
He is not rude or snappy but he definitely likes his personal space around people he doesn't know- which is fair enough as that's how I feel too!
Never had any issue with recall though and surprised they are known for it as all of the ones I know would be mortified to find themselves without their human nearby.
He loves immediate family who he lives with but can be quite quiet and shy with new people and doesn't like to be fussed unless he knows the person.
He is not rude or snappy but he definitely likes his personal space around people he doesn't know- which is fair enough as that's how I feel too!
Never had any issue with recall though and surprised they are known for it as all of the ones I know would be mortified to find themselves without their human nearby.
Tillypup
Well-Known Member
It is the Pointer that is known for a bit of a lack of recall I think!
The galloping/ranging of a Pointer can come as a bit of a shock to the first time Pointer owner, it certainly did to me! We then spent some very frustrating times trying to get her to come back with helpful people suggesting certain treats etc etc to encourage her to come back! they are NOT food orientated when out and about at all!!
Through trial and error with the oldest one we now keep a close eye on her and call her back before she gets too far away or too much "in the zone", once she's gone she's gone until she decides to come back and get you!! She's now 8, the light of my life but every so often a complete and utter PITA!
The other two are far more biddable (perhaps because we knew a bit more about what to do when we got them?!?) They both have very good recall and will drop on the whistle even when a distance away.
They are wonderful in the house, relaxed and chilled out, though will bark on occasion. They love love love the people that they know, sometimes with people they don't know they are very friendly, other times they are not really bothered by them.
They are brilliant with my daughter.
They leave little white hairs everywhere and on everything!
The galloping/ranging of a Pointer can come as a bit of a shock to the first time Pointer owner, it certainly did to me! We then spent some very frustrating times trying to get her to come back with helpful people suggesting certain treats etc etc to encourage her to come back! they are NOT food orientated when out and about at all!!
Through trial and error with the oldest one we now keep a close eye on her and call her back before she gets too far away or too much "in the zone", once she's gone she's gone until she decides to come back and get you!!
She's now 8, the light of my life but every so often a complete and utter PITA!The other two are far more biddable (perhaps because we knew a bit more about what to do when we got them?!?) They both have very good recall and will drop on the whistle even when a distance away.
They are wonderful in the house, relaxed and chilled out, though will bark on occasion. They love love love the people that they know, sometimes with people they don't know they are very friendly, other times they are not really bothered by them.
They are brilliant with my daughter.
They leave little white hairs everywhere and on everything!
FinnishLapphund
There's no cow on the ice
I've read something about that, in general, dogs that is bred for showing have a little less demanding need of activation, than those dogs that is solely bred for their working ability.
After all, dog shows can be a lot about waiting, there is lots of other dogs and people around them, there could be busy areas where people sell things, maybe an agility, obedience or similar competition is going on in one corner of the show area etc., so breeding dogs for showing tends to be in favour of those dogs which, to some degree, is mostly relaxed in that environment. Which, in turn, could lead to dogs that have a little less demanding need of activation.
But first and foremost, maybe it has to do with that you and the other owners that you know of, simply are providing your German Shorthaired Pointers with both proper training and a suitable level of regular activation, possibly sometimes in combination with what I mentioned above, and that is why you don't recognise the description of them as aloof?
Anyhow, I thought Pointer referred to the English Pointer, which over here, is described as a breed that will be at its best in a hunting home, they're bred to hunt a good distance from their owner, have a high game/prey interest, and needs to run loose on a daily basis, but in a suitable home, they will be somewhat of a couch potato indoors.
My impression is that if a Pointer is not properly activated, they might disappear into the distance out on off leash walks, which is really not what I would want to see happening at any time, but especially not if I had walked, let's say, halfway up a mountain.
Ditto what Cave Canem said
eatmyshorts
Well-Known Member
Agree with the above re making sure the type of dog you get suits your lifestyle. I did an online Perfect Dog checker fairly recently & out of the 10 breeds it recommended, i'd had five of them, almost had another, lusted after three more, & would say only one was something i'd never consider. Not usually into these sort of things, but i was quite surprised how accurate it was. There seems to be a trend at the moment for people getting pet mals & sibes - yes beautiful dogs, fantastic in the right homes, but certainly not for everyone.
Re the aloof GSP question (they seem to be entering into the conversation now, despite the Pointer description!), i think it depends on the dog - my two are sisters & the smaller of the two could certainly be described as aloof - she will just sit back & watch - almost cat-like in her response to affection - she will come for a cuddle & enjoy it if she feels like it (although normally not for long) - but most of the time, she's prefers her own space - people are surprised when she will actually duck her head if you go to pet her (not in a wincing way, but just ducking out - she's never been mistreated as far as i know & we've had her from 16wks, so it's very unlikely). Her sister is the complete opposite, always asking for a cuddle, she loves nothing more than to be fussed, petted & close to you.
So, to the question, pointer or foxhounds - i'd say if you've researched them both & are sure they'd (in general) suit your lifestyle, go meet some & take it from there.
Re the aloof GSP question (they seem to be entering into the conversation now, despite the Pointer description!), i think it depends on the dog - my two are sisters & the smaller of the two could certainly be described as aloof - she will just sit back & watch - almost cat-like in her response to affection - she will come for a cuddle & enjoy it if she feels like it (although normally not for long) - but most of the time, she's prefers her own space - people are surprised when she will actually duck her head if you go to pet her (not in a wincing way, but just ducking out - she's never been mistreated as far as i know & we've had her from 16wks, so it's very unlikely). Her sister is the complete opposite, always asking for a cuddle, she loves nothing more than to be fussed, petted & close to you.
So, to the question, pointer or foxhounds - i'd say if you've researched them both & are sure they'd (in general) suit your lifestyle, go meet some & take it from there.
Shrimpy
Well-Known Member
This thread has been fascinating to read and I've learnt a lot about both breeds. We did a Perfect Dog checker online as suggested and the Pointer was on the list along with Border Terriers and Labradors. We haven't discounted any other breeds yet we just wanted the opinions of those people who have experience of the two breeds. And I've definately got a better idea now.
CorvusCorax
Stunning (and brave)
I disagree
my fox hound isnt agressive
He likes cats and dogs and people he is left in the house when we go out and he doesnt trash it
He is loveing and loyal
He can sometimes go off the lead but not alot as when the nos goes down the ears go off
LIKE A STAFFY OR SIMILAR ITS DEED NOT BREED
dont dismiss dogs just because you are thinking of hunting packs of hounds not a pet who eats dry dog food and lives as part of a family
So you think your one individual Foxhound is a typical Foxhound and on the strength of owning your one (a)typical Foxhound, you'd recommend them as a good pet? Really?
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Springy
Well-Known Member
It does say they are not for everyone..
but now as a foxhound owner I know know other foxhound owners and they are also enjoying the breed
Jackie matches the dog to the family/lifestyle and there are home checks and things to go through
My point was (and they are discover dogs at crufts) that dont discount them as no good as pets....
He is a lovely pet and acts like a lab... thats him though
so my advice was to contact the rescue and get more info not everyone rush out and buy one....
How can so many people discount them as a pet when they havent owned one......
s4sugar
Well-Known Member
I have "walked" hound puppies and have had several come to stay. Few people would have another as they took them on not knowing enough -as is often the case with lots of breeds.
I also grew up near a lot of Hamiltonstovaren and these are easier to live with than foxhounds but still not a dog for everyone. I walked them for pocket money.
CorvusCorax
Stunning (and brave)
I think with all breeds there are exceptions and rules - the nice quiet foxhounds who make excellent pets are the exception, I think we would both agree? And why they didn't make very good hounds, I'll wager?
I personally would not want a Foxhound (or a GSD) who acted like a Lab. If I wanted a Lab, I would get a Lab. There is a danger, as with my own breed, if people only breed the passive, non-working temperament types for pet homes, the overall breed and work ethic will be impacted. But maybe that's just me looking at the bigger picture.
Maybe this should be on the other thread
I personally would not want a Foxhound (or a GSD) who acted like a Lab. If I wanted a Lab, I would get a Lab. There is a danger, as with my own breed, if people only breed the passive, non-working temperament types for pet homes, the overall breed and work ethic will be impacted. But maybe that's just me looking at the bigger picture.
Maybe this should be on the other thread