Foxhunting! Help!

[Jade and Dolly]

I have heard loads of people talk about how fun Foxhunting is and i really wanted to give it a go with my horse!

However I've been told by my mums close friend not to go as they don't care about the horses and it's the most dangerous thing , as horses are always breaking legs and getting damaged! And the horse get there hooves stuck down rabbit holes and torn apart by thorns, I understand it's very dangerous and it's more dangerous than eventing!

But how dangerous is it truthly for the horse and rider like do horses break damage legs often?!

Any advice and views will be really appreciated!

 

[Fairynuff]

it's not fun for the fox and certainly more dangerous for him. Drag hunting is safer for everyone

 

[spacefaer]

Of course we care about our horses - we spend hours in the saddle, getting them fit and taking them hunting - we know them incredibly well, and they are wrapped in cotton wool to make sure they are fit and well enough to take hunting.

Ours have a fab life - they get most of the summer being horses in the field, and spent the winter cantering round the countryside with their friends - what's not to like??

I have evented and hunted all my life - my worst falls have been eventing, and the most damage any of my horses have had, was at a hunter trial over a 2'9 fence.

Of course, there are risks, to both horse and rider, but we do everything possible to minimise them.

Never had a broken leg, hoof stuck in rabbit hole and I have had the occasional thorn in a leg, but certainly not "torn apart" and it was no worse than you might get cantering across a common!

Just to add, since we are trail hunting (following a man made scent), fairynuff's comment is irrelevant. Drag hunting is no more or less "safer" than any other form of hunting.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

it's not fun for the fox and certainly more dangerous for him. Drag hunting is safer for everyone

Do you hunt foxes in Italy? We haven't for some years in the UK.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

I both event & hunt, and have to say, I think it's certainly no more dangerous than eventing, in fact, I think you hear about more eventing accidents happening than you do hunting. Hunting is a truly wonderful sport, and pretty much every horse loves it!

With regards to not caring for our horses, well that certainly, or at least in the large majority of cases, isn't true. All our horses mean the world to us, and we certainly take every measure imaginable to ensure no harm comes to them. I love my horses, and if it doesn't sound too cheesy, with all my heart. I'd never wish any harm upon them.

Broken legs out hunting - very rare indeed. Of course there's always a risk, however, it's certainly no greater risk than racing or eventing. There's a risk that they can break a leg in the field grazing, but, most of us take that risk by turning them out, don't we?

I've recently lost one to a catastrophic fracture, sustained in her field. She was a retired mare, who simply spent her days eating grass. So I guess there's always that risk, with anything we do with our horses, be it leave them in the stable, or race them.

Falling in rabbit holes - That can also happen out hacking. In the time I've hunted, I've never seen yet a horse fall through one.

There's a small chance that, if jumping hedges, they can get a thorn stuck in them, but it's not that common.
Most packs will have a non-jumping option, so if you don't wish to jump a hedge, you often don't have to. It depends on the pack.

Have a go at hunting, perhaps autumn hunting first, the pace is slower and more relaxed. As I said, most horses, and their riders, love it, and, it's really no more dangerous than other equestrian activities

 

[Orca]

I don't hunt now but everyone I have known who does, cares a great deal about their horses. I was present at a hunt where someone was killed (a Whip, my friend and neighbour) but this was an unfortunate accident. I've seen many more accidents eventing and more horses injured at xc than hunting. It's possible to gather thorns out hacking and the only time I've ever had a horse get her leg into a rabbit hole was also out hacking. I would say hunting is no more or less dangerous than any other cross country ride at speed, for horse and rider at least

 

[Shay]

Of all the untrue, biased misconceptions on hunting your mum's friend's view is one of the oddest. I would echo others' responses that hunting is almost certainly less dangerous than eventing. I have hunted all my riding life (pre and post ban) and seen only a small handful of horses injured at all. In contrast my daughter events and I fence judge BE and I see more horses injured in a weekend at some events than I have seen my entire life hunting. We broke more kids at PC camp this year than injured riders last season - although I accept we had a bit of a rough PC camp!

And to suggest that we don't care about our horses is - to be honest - offensive. Absolutely we care - massively. Equiequestrian's response to that is eloquent.

As Fuzzy Fury says we haven't actually hunted foxes in the UK for 10 years - although the name foxhunting, as opposed to drag hunting, blood hounding, beagling etc, remains to differentiate what the hounds are trained for and how they are worked. All hunts follow a trail laid one way or another.

The only way to really know what hunting is like is to try it. Don't let others uninformed views put you off.

 

[Orangehorse]

Get horses galloping and jumping over unknown ground and there are always going to be the occasional accident. In fact I think that hunting has quite a good record when you think of the numbers involved and what sort of terrain (unknown) they are going over. The fact that the ground is soft, I always think. Yes, I have known of horse fatalities, serious accidents and human deaths, but they are rare.

As a previous poster says, horses can damage themselves at grass. The best preventative is to get the horse properly fit, well schooled enough so it isn't going to be completely out of control and run itself into danger, and for the rider, keep alert to hazards and make sure the horse is presented correctly at any obstacle, so it knows what the question is, be brave and kick on.

 

[Fairynuff]

there is very little 'fox hunting, (one pack in Rome ) the rest drag hunt.

 

[Fairynuff]

Of all the untrue, biased misconceptions on hunting your mum's friend's view is one of the oddest. I would echo others' responses that hunting is almost certainly less dangerous than eventing. I have hunted all my riding life (pre and post ban) and seen only a small handful of horses injured at all. In contrast my daughter events and I fence judge BE and I see more horses injured in a weekend at some events than I have seen my entire life hunting. We broke more kids at PC camp this year than injured riders last season - although I accept we had a bit of a rough PC camp!

And to suggest that we don't care about our horses is - to be honest - offensive. Absolutely we care - massively. Equiequestrian's response to that is eloquent.

As Fuzzy Fury says we haven't actually hunted foxes in the UK for 10 years - although the name foxhunting, as opposed to drag hunting, blood hounding, beagling etc, remains to differentiate what the hounds are trained for and how they are worked. All hunts follow a trail laid one way or another.

The only way to really know what hunting is like is to try it. Don't let others uninformed views put you off.

Fox hunting has not stopped in the UK.

 

[Fairynuff]

Fairynuffs comment is not 'irrelevant', thankyou very much! Drag hunting has its risks too but as the hounds follow a prelaid scent the chances of finding yourself in unknown country with unknown risks the chances of having an accident is limited. The jumps are usually ' jump friendly having been built by the hunt. It can be fast and accidents can happen, as they can in any sport' and as someone pointed out-horses can be injured in their field. The wonderful thing about draghunting is the absence of the fox

 

[Luci07]

Fairynuffs comment is not 'irrelevant', thankyou very much! Drag hunting has its risks too but as the hounds follow a prelaid scent the chances of finding yourself in unknown country with unknown risks the chances of having an accident is limited. The jumps are usually ' jump friendly having been built by the hunt. It can be fast and accidents can happen, as they can in any sport' and as someone pointed out-horses can be injured in their field. The wonderful thing about draghunting is the absence of the fox

Its not unknown country for the hunt. The hunt staff know where they are going and you seem to be forgetting that as we follow a laid scent, not a fox, the route has been agreed and set. Even in the time of proper hunting, hunt staff know the general lie of the land and where to take care. I have hunted across land where the entire hunt was told they had to follow a single line due to conservancy.. and did, or steer clear of a headland to avoid wrecking fields.. and we did. Personally, having tried drag hunting, I found hunting much safer as the manners seemed to be better! I could hunt my horse quite happily for the majority of the day but we only lasted 1 hour out on the drag. Too many people seriously out of control who wound my horse up badly.

 

[Templebar]

Most in the UK is drag hunting now, but the main difference being foxhounds where the scent is laid as a fox may have gone in days gone by, twisting forth and back and patches of lost scent so followers might get to see how hounds work and make their way through a cover. Some legal fox hunting is allowed but this still follows a degree of planning on which areas will and wont be covered, both types with fox hounds is over all slower with fast sections and stops to wait for the hounds to find the scent.

The other is blood hounding or what was drag hunting in the times before the ban, this follows a scent over a predetermined trail, mainly designed for enjoyment of the follower, so tends to be faster runs over a number of fences, which are mostly designed by the hunt so deemed safe. This has fewer breaks and tends to be faster.

The pack you go with will determine the type of hunting you do and between foxhound packs can vary greatly, hill packs can be quite slow paced and allow more time for watching the hounds work but lower land packs are more often faster and jumping packs, so find one that suits you.

 

[spacefaer]

Most in the UK is drag hunting now, but the main difference being foxhounds where the scent is laid as a fox may have gone in days gone by, twisting forth and back and patches of lost scent so followers might get to see how hounds work and make their way through a cover. Some legal fox hunting is allowed but this still follows a degree of planning on which areas will and wont be covered, both types with fox hounds is over all slower with fast sections and stops to wait for the hounds to find the scent.

The other is blood hounding or what was drag hunting in the times before the ban, this follows a scent over a predetermined trail, mainly designed for enjoyment of the follower, so tends to be faster runs over a number of fences, which are mostly designed by the hunt so deemed safe. This has fewer breaks and tends to be faster.

The pack you go with will determine the type of hunting you do and between foxhound packs can vary greatly, hill packs can be quite slow paced and allow more time for watching the hounds work but lower land packs are more often faster and jumping packs, so find one that suits you.

Blood hounding and drag hunting are completely separate and always have been. Blood hounding is "hunting the clean boot" where the blood hounds chase the scent of a man (or woman) running with a head start in front of the hounds. Drag hunting is a man made scent, laid sometime before (earlier that day, or the day before) and followed by fox hounds. Different again from trail hunting, which pre-ban, was fox hunting, using fox hounds.

 

[ycbm]

Cross posted with spacefaer.

Legal hunting in this country, to clear up some confusion that seems to have arisen.

1. Trail hunting. This is carried out by hunts which used to hunt fox. The scent is set by man to mimic as far as possible following scent left by fox. Sometimes (usually?) the hunt has only a rough idea where the scent goes, again to mimic true hunting conditions. Hounds are fox hounds. Some hunts have no jumping, some have huge hedges, and there are a variety in between.

2. Drag hunting following a scent laid by a runner. The huntsman knows where the trail has been laid and will keep the hounds to the trail. The scent is generally stronger, and very recently laid. Hounds are fox hounds. All drag hunts have jumps but some guarantee a way round for non jumpers.

3. As 2, but the scent is laid by horse's hoof, which is much quicker. This can mean shorter checks, so the hunt can crack on if the weather is bad, for example. Otherwise, identical.

4. Hunting the clean boot. Following the body scent of a person who is running with a head start on the hounds. Tends to be slower because the hounds have such a weak scent to go on. Hounds are bloodhounds.

Is it dangerous? No more so than any other fast riding.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

Blood hounding and drag hunting are completely separate and always have been. Blood hounding is "hunting the clean boot" where the blood hounds chase the scent of a man (or woman) running with a head start in front of the hounds. Drag hunting is a man made scent, laid sometime before (earlier that day, or the day before) and followed by fox hounds. Different again from trail hunting, which pre-ban, was fox hunting, using fox hounds.

^^ This. Drag hunting & bloodhounding (what I do) are two different things.

 

[oldie48]

How dangerous it is to the rider depends on how sensible your horse is, how well you ride and which hunt you are out with. I don't canter my horse on the road, gallop through heavy going or on hard ground or jump fences when I don't know how safe they are and what the ground is on the other side, hunts do. Frankly to say eventing is more dangerous than hunting is rubbish. With eventing you walk the course, know what you are jumping, can choose not to run if the ground is unsuitable and don't have to queue to jump a fence or avoid fallers. there are many hunts who will be very welcoming to newcomers and others who frankly are snobby, so choose carefully. I am not anti hunt and my daughter evented at quite a high level and also evented, we had more horse injuries hunting than eventing! My daughter was never injured eventing, my friend who hunts regularly has clocked up a number of broken bones over the years. There are lots of hunting videos on youtube, have a look at some of them and make your own mind up.

 

[hackneylass2]

Personally I would say that there is more chance of injury eventing, because there is that competitive element, I have had many times I have thought, crikey, did I really chance that?

I would start with bloodhounds, see how you go and then try trail or drag. But in any event, you can choose your pace somewhat and there is no pressure to 'win'.
Contact the packs you are interested in and ask questions - then try the pack that made you feel most comfortable and welcomed.

 

[rachk89]

Any discipline can be dangerous for a horse even hacking. What makes it safer is how you approach it with common sense. If you see a hole in the ground steer around it. If you see a thorny bush avoid it if you can. It's simple haha. Just ignore her I imagine she just disagrees with the actual hunting a fox part even though that's now illegal in Britain though that doesn't stop people of course.

 

[char3479]

I'm interested in the idea that no-one hunts foxes in this country. It is illegal to hunt foxes with dogs. But, let's face it, it still happens, but the kill isn't made by the dogs in order to get round the law. The kill is made by an eagle owl, or a gun. And cubbing still happens.
To the people who say fox hunting doesn't happen in this country: do you really believe this?
I'm genuinely trying to get my head around the fact that so many people I know who appear perfectly normal, and are huge animal lovers, manage to thoroughly enjoy hunting foxes.

 

[Fairynuff]

I'm interested in the idea that no-one hunts foxes in this country. It is illegal to hunt foxes with dogs. But, let's face it, it still happens, but the kill isn't made by the dogs in order to get round the law. The kill is made by an eagle owl, or a gun. And cubbing still happens.
To the people who say fox hunting doesn't happen in this country: do you really believe this?
I'm genuinely trying to get my head around the fact that so many people I know who appear perfectly normal, and are huge animal lovers, manage to thoroughly enjoy hunting foxes.

sorry to say Char but the hunts are still killing foxes with hounds. They seem to think they are above the law Know what you mean about the animal lovers who enjoy hunting, can't get my head round it either. I hunted many years ago and still haven't managed to forgive myself.

 

[hackneylass2]

The day I see an eagle owl kill a fox is the day I will turn myself in as iving in cloud cuckoo land and believing I am God!

 

[char3479]

The day I see an eagle owl kill a fox is the day I will turn myself in as iving in cloud cuckoo land and believing I am God!

That sounds like a fantasy. The eagle owl, on the other hand, is a fact. It travels around on the back of a quad bike, in a metal box, until the fox is seen. I know, because I have seen it happen on more than one occasion. Those who hunt with that particular hunt will know what I'm talking about.

 

[Fairynuff]

The day I see an eagle owl kill a fox is the day I will turn myself in as iving in cloud cuckoo land and believing I am God!

me too!

 

[ycbm]

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jun/23/specieswatch-european-eagle-owl-foxhunting

The day I see an eagle owl kill a fox is the day I will turn myself in as iving in cloud cuckoo land and believing I am God!

 

[char3479]

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/jun/23/specieswatch-european-eagle-owl-foxhunting

Yup.

 

[hackneylass2]

The word was 'possible'. It's possible for a JRT ko kill a human in certain circumstances! When I hear or read an account from a hunt detailing a kill DIRECTLY from a bird of prey used by them I will most probably believe it. It's not illegal, so why are hunts not singing the praises of their birds? unless most of the birds are kept on fist throughout and are just there for show?

Flushing, yes...killing? I highly doubt it! Considering the cost of a trained Eagle Owl or Golden Eagle, the possibility of injury to the bird is real and as such it seems an expensive way of going about things.

I would be interested to hear from anyone with direct and not anecdotal evidence. Char, does that particular BOP flush or kill? I am genuinely interested. because I still don't believe it. As I said, it is perfectly legal to use a BOP in this way (as far as I am aware) so I would welcome an expert falconer's view.

 

[chillipup]

The day I see an eagle owl kill a fox is the day I will turn myself in as iving in cloud cuckoo land and believing I am God!

LOL

That sounds like a fantasy. The eagle owl, on the other hand, is a fact. It travels around on the back of a quad bike, in a metal box, until the fox is seen. I know, because I have seen it happen on more than one occasion. Those who hunt with that particular hunt will know what I'm talking about.

This owl may well be paraded around on the back of a quad bike but did you see it physically attack and kill a fox? If the answer is yes, please tell me exactly what happened, I'm intrigued.

 

[chillipup]

The word was 'possible'. It's possible for a JRT ko kill a human in certain circumstances! When I hear or read an account from a hunt detailing a kill DIRECTLY from a bird of prey used by them I will most probably believe it. It's not illegal, so why are hunts not singing the praises of their birds? unless most of the birds are kept on fist throughout and are just there for show?

Flushing, yes...killing? I highly doubt it! Considering the cost of a trained Eagle Owl or Golden Eagle, the possibility of injury to the bird is real and as such it seems an expensive way of going about things.

I would be interested to hear from anyone with direct and not anecdotal evidence. Char, does that particular BOP flush or kill? I am genuinely interested. because I still don't believe it. As I said, it is perfectly legal to use a BOP in this way (as far as I am aware) so I would welcome an expert falconer's view.

My sentiments exactly. No self respecting owner/handler in their right mind, would surely risk their bird being injured by a fox.

 

[Fairynuff]

The word was 'possible'. It's possible for a JRT ko kill a human in certain circumstances! When I hear or read an account from a hunt detailing a kill DIRECTLY from a bird of prey used by them I will most probably believe it. It's not illegal, so why are hunts not singing the praises of their birds? unless most of the birds are kept on fist throughout and are just there for show?

Flushing, yes...killing? I highly doubt it! Considering the cost of a trained Eagle Owl or Golden Eagle, the possibility of injury to the bird is real and as such it seems an expensive way of going about things.

I would be interested to hear from anyone with direct and not anecdotal evidence. Char, does that particular BOP flush or kill? I am genuinely interested. because I still don't believe it. As I said, it is perfectly legal to use a BOP in this way (as far as I am aware) so I would welcome an expert falconer's view.

I don't think you're going to get a reply any time soon...