French link or lozenge??

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CBFan

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Been told by my instructor to get a new bit for my big youngster who is currently taking the Pee... would usually go for a french link mouthpiece so ordered one but it has arrived and it is a lozenge... have previously avoided them as someone once suggested that they don't sit as nicely on the tongue / take up more room in the mouth. Thoughts?
 
I'd always go for a lozenge - I don't like how the two proud ring parts of the middle link of a French link stick out. Lozenges are ergonomically designed to sit correctly in the mouth - have a look a the Sprenger Dynamic (expensive but normally a few on eBay second hand) or at the Neue Schule range which are similar quality but cheaper.
 
Faberge said:
I'd always go for a lozenge - I don't like how the two proud ring parts of the middle link of a French link stick out. Lozenges are ergonomically designed to sit correctly in the mouth - have a look a the Sprenger Dynamic (expensive but normally a few on eBay second hand) or at the Neue Schule range which are similar quality but cheaper.
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Thanks... I'm hoping this is only a very temporary thing before we can switch back to a normal snaffle so I don't want to spend huge amounts of money.

What you say about the lozenge makes sense.. I am sat here comparing the two now...
 
Well my boy can't vote on here so I'll do it for him by saying that he prefers a lozenge to a french link. He's always been fussy in the mouth but is much quieter with a lozenge :)
 
I've been umming over this too.. my boy has a single jointed snaffle (he came with it) but always carries his head really high and is constantly fighting to open his mouth. Not a huge change since having his teeth done so looking to change to a lozenge as heard these are the kindest!
 
timorliste said:
I've been umming over this too.. my boy has a single jointed snaffle (he came with it) but always carries his head really high and is constantly fighting to open his mouth. Not a huge change since having his teeth done so looking to change to a lozenge as heard these are the kindest!
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Well anything would be better than a single joint I'm sure ;)... my boy goes quite happily in a normal french link... just didn't want him objecting to a lozenge really.. guess I'll try it and see.
 
timorliste said:
I've been umming over this too.. my boy has a single jointed snaffle (he came with it) but always carries his head really high and is constantly fighting to open his mouth. Not a huge change since having his teeth done so looking to change to a lozenge as heard these are the kindest!
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I have known horses to hate the nutcracker action of the single joint bit before. Many have settled down dramatically in the contact after being swapped to a lozenge bit - IME they like the ones with the curved arms as these sit over the tongue rather than pressing down on it, hence recommending the Sprenger Dynamic. Also, it used to be believed that the thicker the bit, the kinder, but tests have shown that a thin bit (14-16mm, say) is actually optimum as horses were not designed to have a bit in their mouths so the less bulky, the better (though obviously too thin would damage).
 
Faberge said:
I have known horses to hate the nutcracker action of the single joint bit before. Many have settled down dramatically in the contact after being swapped to a lozenge bit - IME they like the ones with the curved arms as these sit over the tongue rather than pressing down on it, hence recommending the Sprenger Dynamic. Also, it used to be believed that the thicker the bit, the kinder, but tests have shown that a thin bit (14-16mm, say) is actually optimum as horses were not designed to have a bit in their mouths so the less bulky, the better (though obviously too thin would damage).
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Yes, my boy definately prefers a thinner mouthpiece... hense my struggle to get what I want as a lot of them are very chunky...
 
My boy has a sweet iron french link which i really struggled to find, he isnt over keen on stainless steel, and i dont like happy mouth so this was a compromise. He seems to go really well in it. But on that path to arriving at this choice I had one with a lozenge which he hated with a vengeance from the word go, think the lozenge was too much for him, he has a large tongue, but i gave up with it on about the third ride.
 
I had my mare in a french link which she didn't mind but did fuss a little bit sometimes. Switched to a lozenge and now she dosen't fuss at all :)
 
A lozenge is usually more ergonomically designed, the French link would surely be cheaper to produce so maybe you got a more expensive one? I don't like single joint and think a French link or equivalent is usually kinder and more effective.

If the french link turns in the mouth so the edge is against the tongue is it probably a bit more uncomfortable which wouldn't happen with a lozenge?
 
Faberge said:
I'd always go for a lozenge - I don't like how the two proud ring parts of the middle link of a French link stick out. Lozenges are ergonomically designed to sit correctly in the mouth - have a look a the Sprenger Dynamic (expensive but normally a few on eBay second hand) or at the Neue Schule range which are similar quality but cheaper.
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this... I use a lozenge... loose ring with a copper mix... it works on most horses
 
Lozenge here too for both of ours.

Our CB girl has a cotswold sport tongue saver with eggbut cheeks, and my ISH pony has a NS verbindent (12mm as she just has no space) with loose rings.

Both of them are massively better in these than other lozenge and flat link bits. Tried the sprengers and they really didn't get on with them. Settled for around 20 mins and worked really well, but then started getting quite agitated and bothered. The 45 deg angle they have the lozenge on leads to quite a powerful tongue pressure - not something either of ours got on with at all.
 
Hi CBfan. My cob started to misbehave when I was putting her bridle on. I changed her bit to a Neue Schule Verbindend and she loves it, it has the lozenge. Just wondering why you only want to change bit temporarily?
 
I'll go against the grain.

I used to use lozenge bits a lot but funnily enough my last 3 horses have improved when changing back to normal french link snaffles and one is now in a Hippus.

I think the lozenge can sometimes sit on the tongue and with a fussy horse or one who likes to move their tongue a lot, I think it can feel a bit restrictive and suffocating and then they mess around in their mouths even more.

There was a good thread in CR about lozenge bits a few weeks ago if you can dig it up?
 
millitiger said:
I think the lozenge can sometimes sit on the tongue and with a fussy horse or one who likes to move their tongue a lot, I think it can feel a bit restrictive and suffocating and then they mess around in their mouths even more.
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Def agree with this, the angles and shapes are so important. Some really do give alot of tongue pressure, not always a 'kind' option.
 
katherine1975 said:
Hi CBfan. My cob started to misbehave when I was putting her bridle on. I changed her bit to a Neue Schule Verbindend and she loves it, it has the lozenge. Just wondering why you only want to change bit temporarily?
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The bit my instructor has recomended is a dutch gag... and he only wants me to use it to get him listening to me and respecting my aids. He's a big boy - 17.2hh Pure Cleveland bay and he's going through a bit of a kevin the teenager phase ;) I'm a very slight 5ft11 weighing just 9 and a half stone ;) ...

I tried him in it this morning and he went very nicely... and listened :) Happy bunny :)

p.s. Thank you everyone!! just had a momentary wobble - worrying about getting things right for my boy again!
 
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millitiger said:
I'll go against the grain.

I used to use lozenge bits a lot but funnily enough my last 3 horses have improved when changing back to normal french link snaffles and one is now in a Hippus.

I think the lozenge can sometimes sit on the tongue and with a fussy horse or one who likes to move their tongue a lot, I think it can feel a bit restrictive and suffocating and then they mess around in their mouths even more.

There was a good thread in CR about lozenge bits a few weeks ago if you can dig it up?
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I agree. my lad doesn't like tongue pressure and has a massive tongue so when in a lozenge he snatches alot as he's not happy. He's much better in a thinner french link
 
Going from a' normal' snaffle = pony head shaking looking like a giraffe, mouth open & getting its tongue over the bit, not much breaks. Loose ring sweet iron snaffle with lozenge = pony stopped head shaking, kept its mouth shut and gradually lowered head & accepted bit. Good breaks not needed any longer because pony not running away from bit. Schooling coming on beautifully & owner then turns up & demands a ridiculous amount of £ because pony is so good now ( my hard work) & takes pony away.....I'm still bitter, but that s another thread.!
 
I've swapped mine back to single joints - albeit shaped ones that dont hit the roof of the mouth - after realising that lozenge bits moved about to much for them, not ideal when you want to give a horse a consistant contact to work into. IMO a lot of horses prefer something that sits a bit stiller in the mouth.

If you want good lozenge bits but don't want to pay a forune then this place does their own make and they get great reviews from the folk on here that have used them.

http://cotswoldsport.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65
 
Scarlett said:
I've swapped mine back to single joints - albeit shaped ones that dont hit the roof of the mouth - after realising that lozenge bits moved about to much for them, not ideal when you want to give a horse a consistant contact to work into. IMO a lot of horses prefer something that sits a bit stiller in the mouth.

If you want good lozenge bits but don't want to pay a forune then this place does their own make and they get great reviews from the folk on here that have used them.

http://cotswoldsport.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65
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They look fine but I think they are cheaper because the lozenges are not angled — Sprenger & NS have done extensive research into their designs and angled them accordingly.
 
Cortez said:
I would suggest that you don't ask the forum; just ask your horse, he'll tell you which he prefers.
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Thanks... the only trouble with this option is that you can end up spending a hell of a lot of money. At least asking a forum you can get a general concensus before giving horse the final say on the matter ;)
 
CBFan said:
Thanks... the only trouble with this option is that you can end up spending a hell of a lot of money. At least asking a forum you can get a general concensus before giving horse the final say on the matter ;)
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I believe you have a wonderful thing called the Bit Bank over there which allows you to hire a bit to try before you buy?
 
I have both and find that my youngster prefers the sweet iron with copper lozenge. If you look on robinsons they are really reasonable - you can always sell again if it doesn't suit him? Or if someone you know has one ask to try first.
 
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