Friday afternoon discussion - 'feel'

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sfward

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I read an article in H&H a while ago which got me thinking about this. It was about 'natural' riders, whether they are born or made. The key criterium appeared to be 'feel' or the lack of it...
So - how would you define 'feel' and do you consider yourself to have it? How can you develop it? Is it natural or learned? Does everyone have a different idea of it or can it be defined and measured?

Thoughts please!
 
I had this discussion with my Instructor a while ago. Basically my transitions in and out of trot were not that great, she would just slightly poke her nose etc. It was my fault as I was rushing her, using too much leg etc. My instructor told me to actually think about what I was doing. Now they are fine, but I have to have timing right and THINK before asking. She described this to me as feel, which made sense really. Now just to get it right in so many other areas
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Yes I would agree, if someone were to ask me I would have said it's an awareness of the horse is doing underneath you and the ability to adjust what you're doing accordingly; often requiring split second timing and unconsciously... It's interesting the distinction between 'thinking' about what you're doing and doing it instinctively/naturally - should it be one or the other do you think?
 
I am impressed you understood me
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I think if you can do it instictively then you have true 'feel' but I wonder if there are actually any riders that this comes to naturally. Hmmmm
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Hi
I was told by an instructor that I have a good natural seat and soft hands , something that she said someone might have lessons with the best instructor and ride for years but never have !
I was taught to ride by my father a jump jockey no riding school lessons or instructor , and its only this year after returning to riding that I desided to go to riding school .
I would love to be as good a rider as some of the people on my yard , so I will carry on with the schooling I never had and hopefully in time it will come .
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I think feel can be both natural and trained.

For example some people can do perfect transitions without seeming to think and are described as a 'natural' rider.

I for example have had to train myself into being able to recognise the optimum moment for a canter transition. After a lot of practice I am now able to pick the right moment without having to consciously think about it.

I fence too and can honestly say that after 8 years of training, I am able to respond to my opponent with instinctive unconscious reactions. If I have to actively think of what move to do I am too slow and I lose the hit.

I think riding is the same, we condition our minds and bodies to react on a split second, removing the need for conscious thought. I for one am not a 'natural', I have to train myself to feel.
 
See it's interesting because if you do something without thinking you may not even be aware you've done it, and therefore you may think you have no feel, when actually you do, you're just not always aware of it?! If you see what I mean...
or should you be aware of everything you're doing when riding!!
sorry this is getting a little confusing!!
 
What about driving horses.. us drivers obviously don't use our legs or seat
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but when we are in the dressage arena our horses perform to the same standards as a ridden horse and it all comes from the hands.

When we are negotiating a hazard at a driving trial the horses require the same skills as a horse being ridden across country.. not jumping obviously, but they require the same collection and turning skills as a showjumper.

Is 'lack of feel' a matter of hindering the horses way of going with poor balance and poor hands?

Could it be that apart from the hands, good riding is largely being 'invisible ' to the horse, like there was nothing on its back at all?
 
I think this is a really interesting topic...

I also agree with your point that sometimes you may actually have feel but you are just not aware of it. I know with me when it come to transitions I can usually pick up on them very quickly, ie. wrong strikeoff before a stride is taken etc. I think I have a strong feel for my own horse though and Im not sure if its the same with any horse I sit on. However, I also find that if I over-think things I lose all feel, perfect example is jumping a big fence. If I dont think about it Im fine and can react to the horses' takeoff ect, when I do think about it, all natural feel goes out the window....
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Could it be that apart from the hands, good riding is largely being 'invisible ' to the horse, like there was nothing on its back at all?

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Interesting comment. I think you're right in that the ideal is that you should be able to sit quietly and in balance with the horse, only applying aids (with the seat, legs and hands) when you need to to actively influence what the horse is doing. In practice however I doubt many of us can actually manage that!
I've actually been a passenger with someone doing some driving dressage and it was really interesting. You certainly need to have very good hands and great feel through the reins, I wonder if perhaps this can be helpful in that driving horses only have one set of aids to think about, ie no one sitting in the saddle confusing them with poorly executed/unconscious/incorrect leg and seat aids?!
 
I can 'feel' what Beau does, and what to me feels right and wrong, but without having ridden the ultimate horse how can I compare it?? I have ridden better ones and many worse ones.

I am much better at telling from the ground though, I can visualise which muscles are doing what and why the horse is doig what. But joining the two together I cant seem to do.

I was once thought of as a natural rider as I got on for the 1st time and in a few hours was able to jump and stay on and a week later fooled someone into thinking I had ridden for months.
 
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See it's interesting because if you do something without thinking you may not even be aware you've done it, and therefore you may think you have no feel, when actually you do, you're just not always aware of it?! If you see what I mean...
or should you be aware of everything you're doing when riding!!
sorry this is getting a little confusing!!

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Now you see this is complicated! As I don't think I have 'feel(natural)', I may be infact blinding myself to my hidden genius!! (Hurrah!)

But going back to fencing where it is more clear cut - you make the hit/parry or you don't, I can honestly say I am aware when I have fought a fight on 'feel (trained!)' - I will have felt during the fight that I have all the time in the world to deflect my opponent's attack and make my own. This is because my concious brain is taking a back seat and almost 'watching' my unconcious brain take over and make all the decisions.

Sadly my riding only rarely reaches this level! But maybe that is because not only do I have to be acting instinctively but so does the horse...?
 
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I can 'feel' what Beau does, and what to me feels right and wrong, but without having ridden the ultimate horse how can I compare it??

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Again I think you've made a really good point there. I do think that feel can be vastly improved and trained by the experience of riding lots of different horses. It's a problem I encounter every day trying to teach my baby horse to do dressage, in particular lateral work and extensions, as I've never really ridden anything that has been trained to do this properly - therefore if I am unclear how these movements are meant to feel how can you train a horse to do it?! I manage ok with the basics, but it must help to have had that background and training yourself. And I think this is a little different to the natural ability you develop from riding from a young age, galloping around bareback jumping things, which I did - I never did dressage really until my teens so whereas XC did and does come naturally, flatwork I have had to work at!
 
Liking the fencing analogy - I used to fence as a teenager, you are talking to the former U14 regional foil and epee champion! lol that was a long time ago...
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After having some good training and being encouraged to follow my instincts (rather than be worrying about what I am "supposed" to do) it turns out I do actually have pretty reasonable 'feel'.

Previously I just assumed I was rubbish and was ignoring my instincts!

So it seems to me that confidence in your ability is also wrapped up in this as you have to be confident enough to think that what you pick up an and react to could actually be correct!
 
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Liking the fencing analogy - I used to fence as a teenager, you are talking to the former U14 regional foil and epee champion! lol that was a long time ago...
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Ah ha - I can top that - I was Woman's Foil Chamption of Gloucestershire a few years ago (valiantly beating the two other competitors to claim that title...)
 
I have terrible trouble with 'feel' and don't think I have it when riding, for e.g. I find it hard to tell if George is on the wrong canter leg as I can't always feel it, to try and overcome it I try to make sure I'm looking up and concentrating on George with my instructor backing me up. Not sure you can ever properly learn feel.
 
It's something which is coming to me lol.

When I was a teen I would ride anything, and got o well with most horses. I certainally didnt think about 'feel' it didnt occur to me.

I was riding a friends show hunter and slowly realised I was starting to 'feel'. I think it's something that's naturally there, you just have to learn how to read it. For example, riding your normally ploddy horse, and feeling a sense of them getting excited, without them showing an physical signs of it (no tensing etc). It's hard to describe, but is about many things, down to feeling which side a horse works best on, or which side needs more work. Mainly it's about knowing your horse and learning to read minute signals and pick up 'vibes'.

That's what i think anyway
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Feel, for me, is the ability to pick up on something very minor and act on it at the appropriate moment without necessaily going through conscious thought.

I think it is a natural instinct but it can be practised. I dont think it can be taught but that doesnt mean that not everyone will be able to have feel. It requires lots of time and effort to acheive it it doesnt come that naturally to you.
 
I think I have natural feel for a horse in so much as I know what it is thinking and what it is about to do. But where I get let down is acting on that feel.

It's like being fluent in understanding japanese but when you try to talk it your pronunciation is all wrong.
 
I find my natural feel often differs depending on the horse im riding, i can get on some horses and it all 'works' - smooth, flowing, tiny little invisible corrections etc.

On other horses I do a reasonable impression of a thelwell carton.
Nothing goes right, i correct at totally the wrong moments, give at equally wrong moments and end up feeling like a numpty.
 
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