Friend/fellow livery - need some advice please

PolarSkye

PolarSkye

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OK, so a friend of mine (someone I like very much as a person but don't know THAT well) was recently in a pickle at her livery yard, needed to move quickly and I introduced her to my YO and, hey presto, she and her lovely horse are now on my yard. It is lovely to have her around . . . she is good company, kind and her horse is very sweet. However . . . there are a number of issues/teething problems - none of them particularly major on their own - but added together are annoying people and I'm getting stuck in the middle.

Issue One - Help . . . said friend - we'll call her R - doesn't work, but has a full and busy social life and has been used to having her horse on full/part livery enabling her to only be at the yard once a day. Before she moved, I said I'd be happy to turn her boy out in the mornings . . . and YO made sure she was introduced to the livery on our yard who will muck out, turn out/bring in, etc. (for a reasonable fee). Other than the aforementioned livery, our yard is strictly DIY . . . but friends do turn out/bring in for each other. All fine and dandy. Except I feel like now R is dropping hints (to me) that she needs more help . . . e.g., she has a bad back and really shouldn't be mucking out (did I mention I have fractured seatbones?), handling the hay is bringing her out in hives (I did suggest antihistamines). All I am willing to do is turn her horse out. I don't mind doing it. But I am not prepared to do anything else. Period.

Issue Two - Knowledge . . . she says she has worked with horses for years before owning her current gelding, but sometimes displays a cluelessness that just baffles me. Last night she actually left her boy's door open and, instead of a stall chain (although I wouldn't leave my boy's door open overnight or leave him unattended for any lengthy period of time even with his stallchain) she rigged some rope doodad from (closes eyes and takes a deep breath) a parelli line! Horse escaped, snaffled his immediate neighbours' breakfasts and was only discovered by chance by liveries closing all the gates before leaving the yard late at night. When the liveries who found him, rang her and pinged her on FB to let her know last night they got no answer . . . and this morning instead of being mortified (I would have wanted to crawl under the nearest rock) was rather breezy about the whole thing. Sigh. She was also worryingly vague/clueless about worming her boy before he went into his new field . . . couldn't tell her field sharers when he was last wormed and with what, didn't know where to get hold of a wormer, didn't know that she needed to wait 24 hours for the wormer to do its job before putting her boy in with the other two (or why) . . . I get that she's been used to being on full/part livery for a while and may be out of practice, and I'm not a horse expert by any means, but her apparent lack of knowledge could cause an accident :(.

Issue Three - Her Posse . . . two of the liveries from her previous yard seem to stick to R like glue . . . they spend pretty much all day, every day together . . . walking, at the gym, at the pub and are ALWAYS up at our yard . . . we/I/YO don't mind visitors and I certainly have my fair share of friends who come up to see me/have a cuppa/help me with the GD especially while I'm crock . . . but not every day and certainly not for a few months while I settled in/made friends with/got to my fellow yard mates. From Day One, she is accompanied by The Posse . . . which is making it difficult for the people on the yard to actually get to know her and vice versa. This is a minor irritation, but the other day they made themselves very comfortable in the tack room . . . pulled up chairs, etc., which would be fine if the tack room was set up like that, but there simply isn't room . . . where they had chosen to sit blocks the way to the loo, people's tack lockers, the kettle . . . and it ISN'T THEIR YARD. This particular issue has irritated the YO too who has commented to me a couple of times.

I feel in a bit of a pickle. I could certainly take her aside and have a quiet word . . . but I really don't want to end up being the "go to" person when people have a problem with her . . . and I don't want to change our friendship by "policing" her (if that makes sense).

What would you do?

P
 
I think it's up to the yo to sort it out. Ok you introduced her but that's irrelevant the yo let her on and she gets the money for the livery. Something similar happened with me as a kid. Helped someone else out and they ended up ousting me from the stables I worked at ( late teens). Some folk just kick you in the teeth. :(
 
paulineh said:
Poor you. Trying to help someone out and it not turnin out as you thought.

I would speak to the YO and get them to speak to her.
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She's a lovely person . . . and I do like her . . . she's just turning out to be a bit scatty/unreliable . . . and I don't want to get stuck in the middle, nor do I want comeback from the YO for introducing her :(.

P
 
FfionWinnie said:
I think it's up to the yo to sort it out. Ok you introduced her but that's irrelevant the yo let her on and she gets the money for the livery. Something similar happened with me as a kid. Helped someone else out and they ended up ousting me from the stables I worked at ( late teens). Some folk just kick you in the teeth. :(
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I don't think YO will be best pleased when he hears about her leaving her horse in a stable with an open door/some heath robinson rope thing overnight . . . and I so don't want comeback from it. R is a lovely person and I like her, but I don't want/need to get involved further in how she behaves on the yard :(.

P
 
I'd be totally upfront with YO.

I'd respectfully ask YO that if there is any problem with new lady on yard, please could he deal direct with her as tho you introduced her to him, you didn't know her in depth, nor did you realise the possible lack of knowledge and that maybe she needs more services than we (you) as a collective livery owners group can give her.........

Good luck - but try to let YO deal.
Tho I understand he lets you lot get on with it all, its worth mentioning to him your concerns now rather than leaving things to fester :)

ps: am around end of next week if you want to pop over for a cuppa & biscuits! :D
 
It's an awkward situation, but not unsolveable I think. This is what I'd do...

The first issue. I would a) ignore her comments totally, changing the subject. Let her figure it out. b) reply to her hints by saying how you can see her predicament, then asking what she thinks she will do to solve it? That way you're acknowledging her and being helpful without offering any help yourself. c) tell her outright that you can't help with that problem but the livery who provides those services may be able to.

Second issue. Many people working with horses do no more than bring in/turn out, groom, muck out and ride. So its possible she is both telling the truth about her experience and ignorant of basic horse care too. The people involved need to take the escape and worming issue to the yard owner and ask that yard rules are enforced, YO needs to tell her horse is stabled with door shut and wormed with the others. This assumes a yard rule on worming. If there isn't one, then much as everyone hates it, she's entitled to do her own thing. Though people could try discussing with her the benefits of worming such as lower feed bill and less colic etc. People whose horses breakfast hers ate should tell her they've taken a scoop of her horses feed to replace it, in a friendly just-letting-you-know kind of way. This will let her know that people will hold her responsible for the consequences of her actions.

Third issue. Ignore them. If she wants to set herself apart and not make new friends that's up to her. If they are physically in the way, be friendly but interrupt them mid-sentence if necessary, to point out you need to be where they happen to be sitting, then wait for them to move. If they ignore you and don't move, simply ask them to! There's nothing rude about saying "could you move pleased?" They probably have no idea they're annoying people. Look to my advice for issue one for how to deal with the YO's hints, but perhaps be just a tad more polite and appologetic with it.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
I'd be totally upfront with YO.

I'd respectfully ask YO that if there is any problem with new lady on yard, please could he deal direct with her as tho you introduced her to him, you didn't know her in depth, nor did you realise the possible lack of knowledge and that maybe she needs more services than we (you) as a collective livery owners group can give her.........

Good luck - but try to let YO deal.
Tho I understand he lets you lot get on with it all, its worth mentioning to him your concerns now rather than leaving things to fester :)

ps: am around end of next week if you want to pop over for a cuppa & biscuits! :D
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Good idea . . . I'll take him a Magner's and have a quiet word. I don't want to drop R in it, but nor do I want to be held accountable for her actions. I don't mind helping her by doing what I can to help her settle in, turning her boy out for her, but I don't want to end up responsible for every little thing.

Cuppa and biccies would be great! What day is good for you?

P
 
Oh dear; it seems that your good intentions are coming back to bite you. I too think that the YO needs to manage this livery; you're not responsible for her behaviour any more than you are for any of the others. The contract is between the YO and this person and he has to explain the yard etiquette to her, however she was introduced!
 
Also YO is possibly thinking of your friendship with this person and giving you a chance to speak to her first out of respect for your friendship and not wanting to upset you. If you make it clear that you have no problem with YO having words with her and in fact feel its necessary and appropriate for them to do so, hopefully they will get on and sort it out.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
It's an awkward situation, but not unsolveable I think. This is what I'd do...

The first issue. I would a) ignore her comments totally, changing the subject. Let her figure it out. b) reply to her hints by saying how you can see her predicament, then asking what she thinks she will do to solve it? That way you're acknowledging her and being helpful without offering any help yourself. c) tell her outright that you can't help with that problem but the livery who provides those services may be able to.

Second issue. Many people working with horses do no more than bring in/turn out, groom, muck out and ride. So its possible she is both telling the truth about her experience and ignorant of basic horse care too. The people involved need to take the escape and worming issue to the yard owner and ask that yard rules are enforced, YO needs to tell her horse is stabled with door shut and wormed with the others. This assumes a yard rule on worming. If there isn't one, then much as everyone hates it, she's entitled to do her own thing. Though people could try discussing with her the benefits of worming such as lower feed bill and less colic etc. People whose horses breakfast hers ate should tell her they've taken a scoop of her horses feed to replace it, in a friendly just-letting-you-know kind of way. This will let her know that people will hold her responsible for the consequences of her actions.

Third issue. Ignore them. If she wants to set herself apart and not make new friends that's up to her. If they are physically in the way, be friendly but interrupt them mid-sentence if necessary, to point out you need to be where they happen to be sitting, then wait for them to move. If they ignore you and don't move, simply ask them to! There's nothing rude about saying "could you move pleased?" They probably have no idea they're annoying people. Look to my advice for issue one for how to deal with the YO's hints, but perhaps be just a tad more polite and appologetic with it.
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Thanks S&S . . . all great suggestions :). My issue, though, is not how to solve the individual problems, but more how to distance myself from the problems without distancing myself from her. She was in a real bind . . . I was glad to help and I'm very hapy that her lovely horse is in a safe, happy place now (he is so chilled at our yard) . . . I'm just getting caught in the fallout from the aforementioned issues.

I just need to keep saying to liveries who come to me to moan, and to YO, that I don't want to be in the middle/I am just the person who turns her horse out in the mornings.

As a "for instance" YO had a moan at me when R didn't come up the morning after they arrived at the yard - I turned him out. Not what I would have done . . . I'd have wanted to reassure myself that my boy was happy/turn him out myself . . . but it's her choice and I am not accountable for her behaviour.

See what I mean?

P
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
Also YO is possibly thinking of your friendship with this person and giving you a chance to speak to her first out of respect for your friendship and not wanting to upset you. If you make it clear that you have no problem with YO having words with her and in fact feel its necessary and appropriate for them to do so, hopefully they will get on and sort it out.
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As much as I like my YO, I'm not sure he's that subtle . . . bless him ;). But, yes, I think I do need to have a quiet word with him and let him know (while letting him think it's his idea - we do have to stroke his ego a bit) that he's in charge/needs to sort things out with her directly.

I'm sure all of this can be worked out. I just hate conflict/confrontation ;).

P
 
Could you maybe have a quiet word, just to try, before you get the YO involved? I know it's not your place to manage her, but if she is nice and well-meaning, maybe she genuinly doesn't realise what she is doing wrong (not sure how but hey ho!)

Maybe her 'posse', so keen to be at the yard, could help her out with the jobs that she's trying to palm off on you? Could you not subtly tell her about the escaping, like 'GD is a bugger for escaping-(even if he isn't!) so I'm paranoid about locking the door at night, I triple check it!'....

Bit of an awkward situation though, good luck! x
 
Hmm so everyone on your yard is moaning :s Maybe you should join in and moan about something different to take their minds off moaning about your friend? I think some people just enjoy moaning, lol. If you see your friend outside the yard then she'll know you don't hate her, even if you don't stick up for her much on the yard either. I don't see how you can say much in her defence without upsetting the others. Livery yards are like the police, everything you say will be used against you in evidence and if you say nothing that will be used against you too. Just tell them all straight what you think, then go muck out while they decide if they all hate you or not? I don't know, lol, people do my head in :)
 
I think this quite hard for you to get right.
In the ideal world you could say to a friend you are being a bit of pain do you realise you are irritating people and talk it though with her.
But in the real world It is never that easy.
Yards are difficult places to negotiate and as you indroduced this irritant into the mix I totally understand why you are feeling concerned .
The posse I laughed at that but I would ignore that that's down to yard manager
The hints for help either go deaf or go say up front I am not mucking out for you sorry.
The general daffiness I would try to handle this even if it meanlt getting involved it strange how your view of people changes when you move them into different area of your life .
Good luck hope the seat bones are not too sore.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
Hmm so everyone on your yard is moaning :s Maybe you should join in and moan about something different to take their minds off moaning about your friend? I think some people just enjoy moaning, lol. If you see your friend outside the yard then she'll know you don't hate her, even if you don't stick up for her much on the yard either. I don't see how you can say much in her defence without upsetting the others. Livery yards are like the police, everything you say will be used against you in evidence and if you say nothing that will be used against you too. Just tell them all straight what you think, then go muck out while they decide if they all hate you or not? I don't know, lol, people do my head in :)
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Everyone moaning? Well, no . . . but those who are unhappy with some of the things R has done are moaning to ME instead of having a quiet word with either YO or R herself. I don't see R outside of horsey/yard stuff . . . that's the extent of our relationship but I am trying to maintain a middle ground, i.e., I won't participate in general moaning/but am prepared to listen to those moaning and offer solutions while holding my hands up and saying "please don't put me in the middle."

I don't want R to feel ganged up on so soon after moving (it's been a week and a half) as she doesn't know people yet/people don't know her . . . but she isn't doing herself any favours by having her outside "posse" around her much of the time - it puts distance between her and the other liveries at a time when she needs to be integrating/getting to know people and letting them get to know her.

Although the yard is quite big (28 livery horses, plus YO's two) we're quite a close-knit, family-oriented yard . . . it's family run and YO and his family are very present on the yard . . . they throw a yard barbecue every year, make all the horses Christmas stockings, etc. We're all very sociable, friendly, etc., and it's a very supportive atmosphere . . . the YO is quite suspicious of outsiders having been burned by theft in the past, and sees the yard as an extended family . . . so R's Posse has put his back up, right or wrong.

P
 
PolarSkye said:
Everyone moaning? Well, no . . . but those who are unhappy with some of the things R has done are moaning to ME instead of having a quiet word with either YO or R herself. I don't see R outside of horsey/yard stuff . . . that's the extent of our relationship but I am trying to maintain a middle ground, i.e., I won't participate in general moaning/but am prepared to listen to those moaning and offer solutions while holding my hands up and saying "please don't put me in the middle."

I don't want R to feel ganged up on so soon after moving (it's been a week and a half) as she doesn't know people yet/people don't know her . . . but she isn't doing herself any favours by having her outside "posse" around her much of the time - it puts distance between her and the other liveries at a time when she needs to be integrating/getting to know people and letting them get to know her.

Although the yard is quite bigf (28 livery horses, plus YO's two) we're quite a close-knit, family-oriented yard . . . it's family run and YO and his family are very present on the yard . . . they throw a yard barbecue every year, make all the horses Christmas stockings, etc. We're all very sociable, friendly, etc., and it's a very supportive atmosphere . . . the YO is quite suspicious of outsiders having been burned by theft in the past, and sees the yard as an extended family . . . so R's Posse has put his back up, right or wrong.

P
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OK brace PS I think you need to speak to R about the posse before it gets out of control.
What are the posse on ? Don't they have horses needing riding houses needing cleaning work to go to strange thing to do.
 
I think the YO should definatly be having a word about the "posse". If they are they all day every day, they dont really have any right to be there tbh. They are not paying for anything, and for all YO knows, the could be nicking stuff.
 
Goldenstar said:
OK brace PS I think you need to speak to R about the posse before it gets out of control.
What are the posse on ? Don't they have horses needing riding houses needing cleaning work to go to strange thing to do.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's strange . . . the Posse carshare and live in Twyford . . . which considering where our yard is is a bleeding long way away . . . it's all a bit Stepford Wives for me . . . may have to have a word with R. Nicely. Over a glass of wine.

P

Edited to say: without being unkind or sounding like a raging snob, all three of these women fall into the category of "ladies who lunch" . . . they have money, work part time (if at all) and spend their days at the gym, shopping, lunching at the pub and the horses fit round their lives, rather than the other way around . . . this was brought home to me when R didn't come to yard the morning after she moved him . . . without wanting to sound judgmental, I was surprised b/c I'd have been eager to have found out what sort of night my boy had had and would have wanted to turn him out myself . . . I was happy to turn her horse out for her, he's a poppet to handle, but given how picky/careful she is with him at other times, I was a bit taken aback (as was YO)
 
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It sounds as if your friend really isn't cut out for being responsible for the day to day care of her horse & would be much happier on a full livery yard where basic care is all handled by the yard staff & she was free to come up & ride / spend time with her horse as & when she wanted to. I see nothing wrong with that, but do see that it would be awkward on a DIY yard, which isn't set up to provide that level of care.
 
Goldenstar said:
I think this quite hard for you to get right.
In the ideal world you could say to a friend you are being a bit of pain do you realise you are irritating people and talk it though with her.
But in the real world It is never that easy.
Yards are difficult places to negotiate and as you indroduced this irritant into the mix I totally understand why you are feeling concerned .
The posse I laughed at that but I would ignore that that's down to yard manager
The hints for help either go deaf or go say up front I am not mucking out for you sorry.
The general daffiness I would try to handle this even if it meanlt getting involved it strange how your view of people changes when you move them into different area of your life .
Good luck hope the seat bones are not too sore.
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Just saw this . . . sorry for not responding. I'm choosing to go deaf to the hints and/or offer up other suggestion (pay Carol, wear a long-sleeved top, take antihistamines, etc.) but I won't get sucked into taking care of her horse for her - it will limit how much time I can spend with my own boy and I will end up resenting the time taken away from me. The daffiness . . . well, you're quite right that you don't ever know how mixing person a with environment b will work . . . lesson learned. Agree that I need to let YO deal with the Posse . . . but I dont' want to shoot myself in the foot because I do have friends visit me (but not every flipping day!).

P
 
lme said:
It sounds as if your friend really isn't cut out for being responsible for the day to day care of her horse & would be much happier on a full livery yard where basic care is all handled by the yard staff & she was free to come up & ride / spend time with her horse as & when she wanted to. I see nothing wrong with that, but do see that it would be awkward on a DIY yard, which isn't set up to provide that level of care.
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I think you might be right . . . and that we're a port in a storm b/c she had such drama at her previous yard.

Best case scenarios . . . either she settles in and sorts herself out and we remain friends . . . or she realizes she can't hack DIY and finds another full/part livery yard and we remain friends.

P
 
The only thing that is your concern is the agreement to turn the horse out. Worming issues are for the YO to sort out, and everything else is essentially nothing to do with you, so you should ignore/keep out of....
 
I think next time she drops these hints just point her in the direction of the service providing lady! Oh you don't like mucking out? Me either! I hear carol just loves it though! And I think it is totally fair enough and non confrontational to say that you wouldn't be able to help any more as you like to spend time at the yard with your own horse, plus you are injured!

The posse do sound quite funny, I can just imagine them being all ab fab in the tack room smoking cigarillos and drinking gin and tonic from a portable bar disguised as a grooming kit...

Knowledge wise she probably just didn't have to deal with some things like worming, and if she's been on full livery etc people have probably been guiding her all the way. The door thing was weird though with the parelli rope device!
 
PolarSkye said:
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's strange . . . the Posse carshare and live in Twyford . . . which considering where our yard is is a bleeding long way away . . . it's all a bit Stepford Wives for me . . . may have to have a word with R. Nicely. Over a glass of wine.

P
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Is R ..well very pretty I have seen that before girls who follow a pretty one around but though well assumed you are a grown up so your friends are a of adult age so thought they would be to old for that sort of thing.
I think a chat and a glass of wine is a great idea chat over two fine chat over three probally a mistake chat over four a definatly a mistake over five a disaster.
 
amymay said:
The only thing that is your concern is the agreement to turn the horse out. Worming issues are for the YO to sort out, and everything else is essentially nothing to do with you, so you should ignore/keep out of....
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You are, of course, right . . . but other people on the yard are bringing the issues to me.

Incidentally, YO has nothing to do with worming . . . that's up to individual fields to sort out . . . fieldmates manage their worming programmes within their own fields/amongst themselves . . . because R's fieldmates are also friends of mine (one of them is schooling GD for me) I feel caught in the middle. In any event, the worming issue is now sorted.

I think a quiet word with R over a glass of wine and then a separate word with YO over a Magners (his tipple of choice) should sort it.

Thanks.

P
 
Goldenstar said:
Is R ..well very pretty I have seen that before girls who follow a pretty one around but though well assumed you are a grown up so your friends are a of adult age so thought they would be to old for that sort of thing.
I think a chat and a glass of wine is a great idea chat over two fine chat over three probally a mistake chat over four a definatly a mistake over five a disaster.
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Well, you're right - it does seem a lot like that to me . . . these two "groupies" following the "cool girl" around . . . but we're all in our forties!

And, yes, you're also right that wine accompanying the chat needs to be limited to just one . . . ;).

P
 
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