Friend having trouble bonding with youngster! What would you do?

cblover

cblover

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So peeps, need some advice please.

I have a friend with a 2.5yr old that she has owned since a weanling. He's a gelding and lives at home with her other older horse. Periodically she has told me that she can't seem to bond with him or have the same affection for him as her other horse. She's competent, experience with youngsters, logical and all the things you want in a horsey friend. She just can't put her finger on what is going on with her feelings but says its hard to trust him for some reason. He's done nothing wrong really....well until today!

Today she'd rode her older horse and put it back in the field with the youngster, then caught youngster with head collar from older horse with the intention to do some pole work with him in the field. This happened with a bit of arguing from youngster (but he's just learning) and she duly told him he was a good boy and released him. As she went to walk away, he watched her and waited until she was in reach with his back legs and lashed out....wanting to catch her but thankfully didn't. She believes he was calculating enough to do this with intent.

Now what would you say to her if she was your friend? Baring in mind that she has had negative feeling about him anyway. She's not sure if she should sell him, keep him, put it down to wanting to get away and back to his friend, take it personally.....you can imagine the emotions. I'm not sure what to tell her really....I respect her and trust her judgement but is a horse that age really sly enough to do that and why? Cheers peeps!
 
Hard to say without actually seeing it. I do hope that she gave him a darn good what for with the halter!

If she doesn't like him then the best thing to do is to sell him either now or in the spring.
 
If she's had him that long and hasn't bonded with him it seems unlikely to happen now. Sounds like it would be a happier solution all around if she were to sell him on. My friend's cob has shown similar attitude to the YO who also does not like him. She's got a bit of a grudge against him as he's been a bit disruptive in the herd and had to be separated from the rest and kept with her mare. He seems to know how she feels about him and keeps his distance from her.
 
She believes he was calculating enough to do this with intent
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I think that this (how she views him) is the route of the problem. Now I do think that this 'bonding' thing is a bit OTT, but it is important to me that I actually like the horses that I own.

She doesn't like him or trust him. If a good home for him can be found then she should sell him. However she might find that she needs to wait until he is backed and riding nicely to find the good home.
 
If he had really meant to get her he would not have missed. Just high spirits and perhaps two fingers for making him work but no murderous intent. Just a typical teenager, they are not always very loveable I am afraid but neither are human ones and they all end up growing up. I would tell her not to make a mountain out of a molehill, do her best for him and wait and see how he turns out when he grows up. I bet she will be glad to have waited in a couple of years, I was and I still have the horse, 13 years later, and we have a wonderful relationship now. I remember I used to wake up thinking "oh no, I have to go and deal with A..., why on earth did I ever think I wanted a young horse?"
 
Thanks, I think she should give him the winter off with just general handling where necessary and she'll find he's different again come spring. Plus I reckon he'll make one beautiful horse. I'll discuss things further with her. Thanks again!
 
I've had Arnie since he was weaned. Tbh, there were many times when I thought "I dont really like you much" :(. He is now 9 years old and the bond we have is amazing :D. I cannot imagine life without him - he is just perfect.

For me, what changed it was a bit of natural horsemanship. We did lots of ground work and it really did change our relationship. I stopped being a bit wary of him and he settled right down and started to want to be around me.
 
She just doesn't get on with him. It happens.

In her shoes I'd keep him eighteen months and think of him as a project, and work on him with the aim of putting him on the market at four.

I wouldn't read anything into the kicking out, to be honest.

She might feel it's not acceptable to fail to bond with a horse, or to seem like she's giving up on him - lots of people worry about that. If I were you, I'd just make sure she feels comfortable talking about any of the possible options open to her, don't pass judgement, just be objective and let her know you'll support her no matter what she decided to do :)
 
My goodness its not a baby. You have to have a respect for each other boundries but its a horse and it hasn't read and book that says you have to bond with an animal with two legs. I have 10,aged from two to twenty six, each one has their own personality and place within the herd, I just make sure I am the top one. This is not done by agression but by having my own space and they move out of it.
If your friend can not cope with a young horses its better for it and for her to get rid of it, and non of this bonding nonsense, it will all end in tears.
 
A friend had one from weaning and did not especially like or trust her until she was backed at 4 and they started riding out when she was great. Now at 11 she really thinks the world of her. It can take a very long time. Only your friend can decide what is right for her.
 
Is the older horse a mare? How long has she had that one? I think sometimes you don't really feel a 'bond' when you don't do much with a horse other than look after it. I started to feel quite resentful of my old horse when I fell off and was injured, for obvious reasons but it was mainly that I wasn't riding him and couldn't even do lungeing or anything for a while, so I was pretty much just poo picking! She obviously does some things with him on the ground, but maybe it will all change when he is ridden etc.

I like my horse to be happy to see me (dont mind if this is food related!) and at least differentiate me from other people, mostly by being polite and respectful and knowing my body language, we're not psychically linked or anything!
 
Agree with both Faracat and Honetpot.

Bonding is vastly over rated and a recent phenomenon, a load of mumbo jumbo; it's a horse, not a person; you either enjoy riding/handling it or you don't and if you don't, then change it to one you do, there are plenty more to go around, you'll find one somewhere.
 
I have owned the warmblood for 5 years (well she belongs to my daughter in theory :rolleyes:)

I had never felt happy around her, possibly because she was completely unhandled when we bought her as a 3 year old. She is fine with my daughter and my 80 odd year old uncle.

I would have said I could sell her without a second thought, until she was ill and I had to leave her at Liverpool. I was gutted :(

When she was better our slightly uneasy relationship continued. Would never trust her. The other two are my pets, she never has been.

Funnily enough things have changed recently. She got an abcess and I had to poultice her :eek: She tolerated it for 3 days then decided to remove it, 3 times in a row and about 3 feet up in the air. Although she was doing airs above ground she actually avoided kicking or landing on me. At that point I realised its all show. She is the bottom of the pecking order in the field so she had to have someone to bully :D
 
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I know someone who bred a lovely colt, this was going to be her 'special' horse. She then went through a load of anthropomorphic rubbish with him and decided they could not bond and because he was kicking at her at every opportunity, he hated her.

When she started treating him like the young horse he was, things improved. Now they have a good relationship.
 
I really struggled bonding with my youngster. Had her from 8 months but by 6 years old I called it a day. Well behaved well backed and schooled little horse but I just didn't like her or she me. She loved ppp but sadly too small and dressagey for ppp and happy with new mommy. I tried but was like staying in the wrong relationship for wrong reasons - it made both of us unhappy.
 
Sounds like he's just not the horse for her! U don't say her intentions for him but if he's just her "pet" then I would sell him. In her shoes I would only keep him if he was hugely talented and I had big plans for him - he would b my "employee" as such rather than my pet. Hard to explain!
 
No Go it's not hard to explain. You describe what horses are mostly for, a "working" relationship which does not have to mean high level comp horse. Can be anything you wish to do. But we are also talking about a baby here.

I know you say your friend is experienced with youngsters, but she should know that magic bonding really isn't the be all end all. And when he went to kick out at her she should have immediately walloped him with the headcollar and rope on his butt. Not stood there gutted because horsie doesn't like her. That would have gone a long way into showing who's boss and in charge.

I have a 2yo filly the same age as your friend's horse. If I took offense every time my filly dissed me I'd be on Prozac. But she's very respectful and you can do anything you want with her. She's obviously not in work and sees me as a means to an end. I bring food, I get her to her nice comfy stable at night. This is what she needs from me. No more, no less. For her part she has simple rules to follow.

People really have been messed up with the word bonding. It took some common sense away in dealing with horses. It was promised to make everything better with horses. And yet more horses now call the shots and their spoiled to the point of being a headache for their owners. Horses need leaders and respect, not best friends from humans. If you have those things from your horse then you will find they will do anything for you.

Terri
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
People really have been messed up with the word bonding. It took some common sense away in dealing with horses. It was promised to make everything better with horses. And yet more horses now call the shots and their spoiled to the point of being a headache for their owners. Horses need leaders and respect, not best friends from humans. If you have those things from your horse then you will find they will do anything for you.
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Nail. Head. Hit.
 
Morning peeps....you have made me laugh with your excellent responses. I will be sharing them with my friend. She's a lovely person with a good heart but I think her desire to ensure this is a success is taking over her rational thought patterns! lol

Doesn't help cos last night youngster trashed the elec fence (I think tried to jump but took it with him) and now she's feeling even more down!

Her other horse is a cob type that she does hacking and riding club stuff with and she had her for 10 years. She backed and educated her herself and they are very good together.

Thinking about it though, I don't think she's ever had a horse between the ages of 2-4....I'm sure this is the time they will test you the most.

I really hope it works out for her!
 
If he's a youngster and she's still training him, I would suggest she has a try at clicker training some key things such as leading, backing up, foot handling, touching and following a target.

It is a very effective way to train a horse, but in addition, the fact that the trainer is completely focussed on looking for the right responses to reward means that they often end up with a more positive feeling about the horse they're training. And since the horse is trained using rewards, they in turn end up with more positive feelings towards their trainer.

And over time, you end up with a close relationship with a well trained horse - win/win situation :). I can suggest a few books and online support if she's interested.
 
I think this pressure to bond can be a bit of a rod for the owners back as long as at 2.5 she can catch him pick up his feet and lead him about a bit I would leave him alone until she's ready to start him to do his job.
The whole bonding question is an interesting area I buy horses to do jobs and get on with producing them to do that job I feel no pressure to get that special bond thing it just happens when it does if it does.
 
Thanks for that. You don't need to catch him, he'll happily come over for a stratch and to be caught. Leading is fine, feet are done every day. He's also been loaded, travelled and shown a few times. Rugs on, seen the dentist and been introduced to clippers.

He's still very young and I'm sure he'll come good!
 
I can only really like one horse at a time, the others tend to just be animals to look after. I am probably emotionally deficient! I like my 2 year old the most then my riding horse and finally the old retired boy.
I would say I haven't met a calculaing youngster, I don't think they plan ahead too much. I would have walloped him and thought nothing more of it. Piper kicked me once, I didn't take it personally but nor did he sulk over the kick I gave him back, we moved on.
 
CBLover... You know me... and you know the troubles (I think) I had with my boy.

He wasn't the horse I chose... I ended up with him due to a bad run of events but he was better than having one that was totally crook at a year old right?! Wrong. Got him as an unhandled 16 month old... within 4 months he had broken my arm - doing pretty much what your friend's youngster was doing... I really struggled to 'bond' with him as he just wasn't the horse I wanted. But I did realise that I couldn't take his behaviour personally. He didn't have a problem with me... just with me asking him to do things... it comes down to respect... and with that respect comes a bond. You don't get a bond with all youngsters by being nicey nicey all the time... sometimes (especially the boys!) they have to be put him their place... and I can echo what Equilibrium Ireland said, If he were my youngster, he would have got a wallop for that - after all that is what any other herd member would have done to him had he shown such disrespect.

Now... I know if I lost my boy, I would be devestated. He's still a bugger at times and tests me to the brink and in hindsight I wish I had been tougher with him sooner but he's a lovable rogue and we're working through it.

If I met your friend I would tell her to take a step back and stop taking his behaviour personally :) and just get on with it. He sounds like a naughty boy to me.
 
Hi CBFan....I do indeed know you!

If he was mine I would of given him a smack with the head collar or what ever was in my hand but how I understand it, he lashed out and immediately galloped off to see her other horse. To me, on this occasion, she couldn't do anything to repremand him. I've seen him a good few times and he's always been gentle to be honest....he's just being a typical boy!

Concentration span of a goldfish....like some grown men! lol
 
Look it, they still can push it when older too. When my mare Abba was born it was if all my dreams came true at once. My first 2 foals taught me nothing. They must have read the foal and youngster handbook while being in the womb. Abba presented all manner of problems for me, chief amongst them was my attitude in that she had to love me and be my special horse. Cue an absolute nightmare. At one month I turned her over to my husband. At 2 months she had a head injury we didn't even think she'd live from. More of me being a numpty with her. I mean honestly I sat there for 2 hours with her head curled up on my lap waiting for the vet. My numpty brain assumed she would know how much I loved her. Yup, me still in fairy land. Anyway, let's just say I pretty much left the handling to my husband until she was broken at 3. We were cool then. This was her job. Still it wasn't like she ever really adores humans. We are a means to an end. Normal horse behavoir.

But, when I sent her away for jumper training it became apparent that on some level she did enjoy me being there. She couldn't see my car pull up but I never failed to get a whinny as I was getting out and I'd see her desperately peaking around to see me. Something my trainer said she never did when he arrived. I pulled up one day when she was working and was told to go in the barn as she had lost all interest in working at that point.

She came home and her normal indifference to me returned. But that's how I know she's happy and well. Trust me if something is bothering her or she's in pain I know in an instant. I usually get her head buried in my chest.

Do I wish she just adored me in that human way? Well of course because I'm a soppy ole cow. But at the end of the day she is a horse. She works well for me under saddle and in general is good to be around. But a few weeks ago she got a bucket upside her blanketed butt. When I went in to feed her I was lazy and didn't make her stand paitiently by her pot. As I was ducking under the chain she let a hind one fly. Not near me, but being a brat for her tea and telling me to get out. It's not tolerated. And she knows better. Bucket on butt and she got me as a dinner guest. And she was very pleasant.

I only tell these stories because it helps to listen to mistakes we've made. So that when I give advice it's not because I read it and think yeah, that's good. Nope, it's normally because I've screwed up royally. All my youngsters since I've just let be. They do the basics as Goldenstar mentioned, and get to be babies. I no longer take it personal. And once that happened I was a much better horse person.

Terri
 
Terri that was a pleasure to read and inspiring that you were truthful. I appreciate that. We are indeed very different creatures and we are both learning all the time. Thats the beauty isn't it! I'll be sure to pass your story on. x
 
Just to add to this thread as some people have said that if owner hasn't bonded, she wont by now... this is not necesarrily the case. I owned my boy from 6 months old, I did love him but, it was a detatched love and I went through the motions, handling, disciplining, fixing fences:rolleyes: I wouldn't have got rid of him because he was my responsibility, I could see he was happy and ebony was so happy with him... but it wasn't that overwhelming love for him and that bond, it was all rather clinical despite me giving him affection and in some ways some of it was a conscious decision as I didn't want to be 'soft' and let him walk all over me, testing my boundaries, which I knew he would be able to do more easily if I 'adored' him, I would make excuses for him :rolleyes: but in truth, I couldn't have forced that bond it just wasn't there.

The day I put ebony down it hit us both like lightening, my entire world shifted to being wholly focused on him, his happiness, his safety and well being. He was 3 when this happened, and six months on that bond is as fierce as ever... Sadly it took losing the one that I had the bond with to enable me to open up to him, infact, out bond now is a direct result of losing Ebony. This may be the case with your friend, that she has such a strong bond with her older horse, but it also illustrates that you can have a horse for a long time before that 'lightbulb' moment hits you. I always loved him and was proud of him, but we didn't click fully for a long time.
 
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