Friend wanting to breed her dog..help needed!!

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hannah87

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Hi, have a little dilemma and was wondering if you guys could give me some advice.
A friend of mine wants breed from her spaniel bitch this summer.
The doggie is very sweet, but not a pedigree nor is it a a good example of the breed.
While it is not a nasty dog at all, she is completely loopy and a little nerouotic (sp?)
My friend also has no clue about animals, obviously she cares for her dog but has no experience other than looking after this one dog.
she is talking about breeding it to a completely random breed, not a spaniel.
I really think she should not be breeding her dog full stop and a trying cautiously to talk her out of it.
IMO there are so many unwanted dogs out there that breeding a litter of crossed pups is madness.
She thinks she will make some decent money out of it but i beg to differ
Can anyone give me some advice as to how to talk her round? Or am i being overdramatic?!!
 
what if she loses the bitch and the pups?
what if it needs a c-section?
Where are the pups going, what happens if they need sent back when they are older?
 
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nor is it a a good example of the breed.
While it is not a nasty dog at all, she is completely loopy and a little nerouotic

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Sounds like a perfect example going by that description, lol!

You can tell her that she should put out of her mind immediately the thought of making any money on these puppies. My puppies, last year, cost me $1,200 to raise 4 puppies till they left here. 3 of my puppies were sold for $200 which brought the amount down to them only costing me $600.

I was all set up for having puppies so wasn't a huge deal for me, however I did have to bring my Springer into the house to birth and she remained inside until the puppies were around 3 weeks old. The heating had to be left on 24 hours a day at this time to keep the puppies warm.

Once the puppies moved out to the dogroom I used heat lamps, which were costly to run. The puppies went through tonnes of puppy food and evaporated milk. They were very time consuming, although I do admit I absolutely loved having them!
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If her bitch has a larger litter than my bitch had, then she can look at having to spend an awful lot of time with them, and the financial input will be much greater and even though percentage-wise, yes she will make more money when she sells, they will also cost her more to keep.

If she raises these puppies correctly, then I can absolutely, 100% guarantee that she will NOT make one penny profit on them. Only commercial breeders, breeding pedigree dogs, can make good money from pups as they are all set up for it and market value of some pedigrees are high.

Out of interest, what breed is she thinking of breeding the spaniel to?
 
Thanks for your replies so far..
I think she is hung up on having "cute puppies" to play with...
However she and her partner both work full time - so IMO will not have enough time to look after puppies
She has mentioned several breeds along the lines of a friend of a friend has a nice labrador etc etc
I do not know a whole bunch about breeding dogs but i do know how many are in kennels. It just reminds me so much of the old "my mare is pigeon toed but oh so pretty so il breed her to a friends stallion" saga
hmmm
 
Ask her, how she would feel about, half of the litter, ending up in kennels, banging their heads of walls, and sleeping on freezing cold concrete with no bed, and scraps to eat.......as if she cannot take them back, and the buyers get shot of them at any stage in their life, they cound end up on death row in the local pound.

A C section, as Triplasand suggests......can cost anywhere between £600-£1000 depending on whether it runs in emergency hours, and has to be paid up front.

She will have to worm, and atleast first vax and poss second vax the puppies, if homes fall through....this will be somewhere between £30-£40 for a full and half of that for a first, for each puppy, plus vet checks for mother and puppy.
 
She won't be thinking they are cute little puppies when she has 8 lots of poop to pick up a number of times every day starting from the pups, for weeks on end. Well I didn't mind as I was with them all the time and by that time, mine were all out in the dog room so no smell/mess in the house. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to come home to it after a long days work; it would likely stink by that time ... oh and tell her that puppies love nothing better than to run through it all!
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Usually the moment you go to try to pick up a fresh one so no-one does run in it!
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Labrador x spaniel isn't such a wacky cross, but yes I do agree that she needs to be taken on a trip to the local rescue centre as she clearly isn't paying attention to what is going on out there in the big wide world.

My bitch's pups were an accident however I had homes for them before they were even born. Actually I had more homes than puppies and those who missed out asked me to breed her again ... not on your life! Took her straight down to the vets and had her spayed with my "earnings" from the sale of the pups
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They were darned cute though!
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And I did thoroughly enjoy having them all around the place.
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If you PM me I can give you my phone-number so she can hear me go AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH...


No seriously, I'm not against all breeding, the Backyard Breeders wont stop only because the ones trying to breed good quality dogs stops. But when the bitches best quality is that she's very sweet and not nasty, she's not breeding material. Put a pink rosette on top of any bitches head that walks by on the street and ask others that pass by if they think she's very sweet?



Read The Backyard Breeders' and Puppy Millers' Big Book of Old Excuses on http://www.boxerworld.com/rescue/excuses/


Here's great "ammunition" http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/showdogs/breedingreproducing.htm

It begins with "So you want to breed

So you want to breed, and your dog passes conformation, temperament, health, genetic testing. First you have to find a compatible / non related Stud, with all the same background testing as your female, i.e. conformation, temperament, health, genetic testing and good non related pedigree.

The general goal, when you breed, would be to better the breed. That is the MAIN reason to breed.

Breeding IS not as EASY as it looks. Lack of experience can risk the life of your Dam. Having puppies, so your Children can witness the miracle of birth, sometimes takes a twist....... Be Prepared, and ask yourself about how you will handle things, when things go wrong? Is it worth it? Most Whelpings do not follow the text instructions, most whelpings require experience. Also, There is no money in breeding, it is a Hobby and usually costs money to do it right.

Many unexpected costs, can break your bank, you need to have funds set aside, in case you have trouble while pregnant and whelping. 25% of births, have a $1000 Vet bill for a middle of the night c-section, Then fading puppies, can cost thousands of dollars to save, your puppies can get many virus' from mild coccidia, Giardia, to a more serious Parvo. Your Dam could have no milk, or too much and get mastitis. Your dam could hemorrhage. This list goes on."

After reading that, you can choose between titles like f. ex. "To Breed or Not To Breed?", "Sometimes things do not go as planned" and "C-Sections".







Just fact that she's not planning to breed purebreds, is no excuse for not health testing the potential brood-bitch. F. ex. OptiGen in USA offers prcd-PRA (eye disease) test for Cockapoo crosses.


And then we have the fact that less people wants to buy a new mouth to feed when they have less money... What will she do if the puppies don't sell? If a puppy-buyer wants to return it 6 months later, because it eats half the house when the owner leaves it alone? Wants to return the puppy because it needs more training and/or exercise than what they thought?

In Sweden puppies are usually sold from 2 months old, some weeks ago, my morning-paper had an add from a breeder who had 4 about 5 months old unsold GSD-puppies wanting their own home...







Maybe take a look at a few Rescue web sites.

Then the bitch will cost more to feed during the pregnancy, she should be de-wormed and up to date on vacc so she can give the puppies some of her vacc-protection through the milk the first weeks, the puppies will need gnaw bones and toys, and they pee and poo several times a day and the bitch only cleans that up for you the first week or perhaps two, when the bitch stops feeding the puppies they also needs dog food, before delivery they should have got their first vacc by the vet...




I really hope you can find something that at least gives her a more realistic idea about what breeding is about.

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I think she is hung up on having "cute puppies" to play with...


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The hardest type to disuade..........the ignorant
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Show her the for sale ads in the paper, get her to phone one of the numpties who's trying to sell crossbreeds for £100 to see how many he has left, go to the rescue sites on the internet and show her the reams of unwanted dogs already in the country WITHOUT her little contribution and tell her to volunteer at a rescue centre if she wants to play with puppies
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Oh No!! Please try and dissuade her, there are thousands of unwanted dogs already in the rescue centres.
On the champdogs forum was a recent thread about someone who bred a litter of labradoodles as they were so popular and fetching silly money. She took the whole litter to the vet at 12 weeks to be PTS...... (think they went to a rescue place)
In MHO no-one should breed if they are not prepared to take the pups back and ensure they have a safe and happy future. We had a litter of 12 last summer, I don't think we will ever do it again, the emotional cost (never mind the vet bill when they all got diarhhea) was too high and my hubby and me wept buckets when one died at 6 months old.
You CAN'T work full time and raise a litter of pups, it is impossible unless you are prepared to just abandon them.
I could cry........
 
Try to make her see sense!!As already said in other posts,doing it for the money make me very cross,there alot of time,money need to go into having a litter without thinking about making money!!Its hard work as i know as i,ve had a litter,but carefully planned and keeping two out of the litter and making sure they go to the right homes and take a puppy/dog back anytime in its life.You bring them into the world so its your responsibilty!
 
Since many (including myself in my first reply) mentions talking about rescues, I want to say that personally I wouldn't talk to much about how many dogs there's out there that needs home, I would mention it, but I would focus on the risks and the responsibilities.

I just have this feeling, from talking to other owners who's dogs best quality is their super-sweetness, that they often simply don't get that there might not be buyers for 10 little mini-copies of their super-sweet dog/bitch. And/or that all others wouldn't put up with the same or similar completely loopy and a little neurotic behaviour from an adult dog as they do.

So I think it's better to emphasize the risks and what it could cost for the bitch + the cost, time and risk with the puppies.

Maybe ask why she wants to breed, if it's to calm the bitch down, there's a little bit better chances of achieving that by sterilization.
 
Unfortunatley i also agree with most of the comments being made. The most important thing to most breeders is temperament above most other things i dont believe by mixing 2 breeds you can be sure how the temperment will turn out. If she used a soft springer male she may be lucky, however at the current state of the country people are holding back on buying puppies, i predict by the end of the year cross breeds will only be making £50 which in my mind is a good thing. This will help stop the back yard breeders, hopefully.
 
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