From a wilkie snaffle to a hanging cheek snaffle?

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horseless jorge!

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Ok, so Sam the pony. Me and his owner have been discussing bits to try him in. He's currently in a Wilkie ;
loopringfrenchlinkwilkie.jpg
and I don't particularly like riding him in it.
I would like to move him to a hanging cheek snaffle ; http://www.richandson.co.uk/ekmps/shops/richandson/images/hanging-cheek-snaffle-mrs023-353-p[ekm]652x300[ekm].jpg, but I wondered what other people thought?

The reason I don't like the Wilkie is, even though it does have action to stop him, it just doesn't allow me anything other than him having his head forced into his chest. :/
 
well i dont understand then! if you think of the top ring thats attached to the cheek pieces which in turn in connected to the headpiece... surely when pressure is applied to the reins there will a lever type action which will surely apply poll pressure?
 
I'm not very good at writing things in words but I'll give it a go.

The mechanics show that to apply poll pressure the bit must have "loose rings" than can slide to create an angle like a dutch gag, the hanging cheek has "fixed rings" so cannot create this.



I used a hanging cheek on a mare I used to ride because she like the "stability" in the mouth of the fixed rings :)
 
You just have to think about the physics of it - the sustainable dressage site explains the action of the hanging cheek and the dutch gag well.

OP I'd try a loose ring snaffle with the same mouthpiece as the wilkie you have and see how you get on. A lot of horses get overbent in wilkies, universals and dutch gags, so take out the gag action and see what happens. A plain loose ring will give a similar feel to the horse but without the gag action, it is also cheap to buy and easy to borrow so would be my first port of call.

If the horse isn't happy in that, or if you need more brakes then try the hanging cheek or a full cheek with keepers and see how he goes.
 
monkeybum13 said:
I'm not very good at writing things in words but I'll give it a go.

The mechanics show that to apply poll pressure the bit must have "loose rings" than can slide to create an angle like a dutch gag, the hanging cheek has "fixed rings" so cannot create this.



I used a hanging cheek on a mare I used to ride because she like the "stability" in the mouth of the fixed rings :)
Click to expand...

the stability bit i can understand... the rest i cant :( surely with loose rings theres more play? ohh my days i think wel just have to agree to disagree lol!!

eta- i can see how a hell of a lot of pressure would have to applied to the reins for much poll pressure to come in...
 
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I absolutely HATE Wilkie's - they aren't snaffles! They are gags that someone decided to name 'snaffle'. I really get annoyed when they are used on Lead Rein and First Ridden ponies. They have their place and purpose but I personally hate them. Not overly keen on Hanging Cheeks either.

I'd go for a loose ring or an eggbut snaffle and see how you got on.
 
horseless jorge! said:
loopringfrenchlinkwilkie.jpg



I've got one of those, but it's a Jeffries make, with rotational lozenge

Loopringbit.gif


My lad is in one of these:

Rotatingbit.gif


They are better, a little less strong, and I know quite a few people who use the hanging cheek (in fact I was surprised at how popular it is!:)

Each side of the bit works independently of the other, so the horse can't get a grip on it, and can't snatch :) My lad loves it :)
Click to expand...
 
Sustainable dressage and monkeybum are right. It is physics, not just someone's personal opinion. Put a hanging cheek snaffle on your bridle and take up a rein contact and look what happens to the cheekpieces. You will notice that they go loose as the contact is taken up, showing that there is no poll pressure. The reason that there is no poll pressure is because unlike on a gag type bit such as a dutch gag (or yes, a wilkie snaffle) the reins are not fixed in place so they cannot move the bit ring around.
I love hanging cheek snaffles and have found a myler hanging cheek to be an absolute godsend with my difficult to bit mare who was scared of a contact and resisted it by hollowing. She just gave me the most beautiful ride yesterday :D
 
MrVelvet said:
a hanging cheek snaffle has the same action... if not more so! if you dont want poll pressure just try him in a normal snaffle :) x
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Hanging cheeks don't have poll pressure :)

OP, is the reason you're playing with bits that he's strong? Or is he unhappy in current bit?

J&C
 
MrVelvet said:
the stability bit i can understand... the rest i cant :( surely with loose rings theres more play? ohh my days i think wel just have to agree to disagree lol!!

eta- i can see how a hell of a lot of pressure would have to applied to the reins for much poll pressure to come in...
Click to expand...

Wouldn't the extentions above the mouthpiece (the top rings) simply act as an extension of the cheek pieces? If the reins are attached to the same point as the mouth piece there is no real point of leverage, the bit simply rises up in the mouth towards the back teeth. This makes the bit more stable in the mouth, but doesn't pull down on the cheekpieces, it pulls the bit up.

If, like a gag, it had some form of shank below the point of the mouthpiece, it would pull down on the mouthpiece, as there is a point around which the bit can rotate, am I making sense?

J&C
 
JessandCharlie said:
OP, is the reason you're playing with bits that he's strong? Or is he unhappy in current bit?
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He's not unhappy in the bit, it's good for him in walk and trot. He IS strong, but it's not anything to be worried about. When he bolts in this bit, and I ask for him to halt, his head immediately comes in and he bucks, broncs and totally loses his mind. I think in a different bit, it would be much easier for me. Also, in this bit I can't get any 'true' bend, I can just get his head in and that's it.
 
Aah, ok, so am I right in thinking he has tanking tendancies? :p So he's good most of the time but has 'moments' where the bit (which is usually fine) is a bit...useless? ;)

J&C
 
poppymoo said:
I was always told/taught that hanging cheeks DO have poll pressure....

And my very sensitive-polled arab would also agree......
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I thought they would have poll pressure. That's what I was taught anyway!

JessandCharlie said:
Aah, ok, so am I right in thinking he has tanking tendancies? :p So he's good most of the time but has 'moments' where the bit (which is usually fine) is a bit...useless? ;)

J&C
Click to expand...

Yes, most definitely! He does have tendencies to just go off on one, and when I ask him to stop, the Wilkie just gets his head in, he broncs and then we're off, unstoppable! :rolleyes:
It's also not good over fences, cause when he takes off, I ask for a half halt, and then we kind of, roll over to the other side. His head comes in, his bum goes up and we lose all control. :p
 
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