From a wilkie snaffle to a hanging cheek snaffle?

poppymoo said:
Thankyou!

I am trying desperately to find a picture of a wilkie bit to illustrate the difference...but essentially- a wilkie bit has the top 'bubble' on the outside of the cheekpiece, not on the inside. The pictures shown here are of a beval bit.....
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Ok, so now I'm seriously confused. When I google 'Wilkie' it comes up with Sam's bit. :/ And when I google 'beval' it also comes up with Sam's bit! :confused:

Oh well, the point here is I don't like the bit he's in cause it makes him an awful ride when he's in a bad mood. :rolleyes:
 
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So THIS is a wilkie?
 
unbalanced said:
Sustainable dressage and monkeybum are right. It is physics, not just someone's personal opinion. Put a hanging cheek snaffle on your bridle and take up a rein contact and look what happens to the cheekpieces. You will notice that they go loose as the contact is taken up, showing that there is no poll pressure. The reason that there is no poll pressure is because unlike on a gag type bit such as a dutch gag (or yes, a wilkie snaffle) the reins are not fixed in place so they cannot move the bit ring around.
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This. :) Think it just needs to be seen to be believed by some...

Dan in his myler hanging cheek. Which actually has slightly flattened rings for the cheekpieces - apparently (according to the woman who did the bitting talk who sold them whose name I forget) is supposed to encourage some poll action as the cheekpieces can't rotate (although the reins still can...) yet you can clearly see the cheekpiece bowing away from his face, slack. Therefore can't be causing any form of poll pressure.
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Awful picture, but it was from 2yrs ago... We don't use the hanging cheek anymore.
 
Horseless gerorge! you can have the same effect as a hanging cheek snaffle using the same bit.

PLace the cheek pieces in the slot and the reins in the gap between the slots - the bit will then not tilt as it does with the hanging cheek.

Please note their is no poll pressure with a hanging cheek - you need the bit to be held down in the mouth (curb chain) and the rein below the mouthpiece to create leverage.
 
Evelyn said:
Horseless gerorge! you can have the same effect as a hanging cheek snaffle using the same bit.

PLace the cheek pieces in the slot and the reins in the gap between the slots - the bit will then not tilt as it does with the hanging cheek.

Please note their is no poll pressure with a hanging cheek - you need the bit to be held down in the mouth (curb chain) and the rein below the mouthpiece to create leverage.
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I see, so that won't have as much leverage then? So it would just be a full snaffle action bit?

Evelyn said:
NO that is not a Wilkie snaffle - this is - also known as a Bevel

BITBEVEL.jpg
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I'm so confused. I think the wilkie bits are the same as the beval bits. :/
 
Agree with Evelyn, have a play with putting reins in the middle slot between the loops :) Problem is, you might find poll pressure useful generally if he's a bit strong (although everyone on HHO knows schooling is the way forward ;) :p) but, if he puts his chin on his chest when he sods off the poll pressure won't help that one iota IMO. When he tanks, have you tried asking for some shoulder in, or putting your legs on to try and make him work a bit more through and stop him going BTV? (I know the last thing you want to do on a tanking horse is put your leg on, but it does work for some :))

Sorry if I'm not making any sense, I think I have concussion :p Blimmin' horses, who'd have 'em, eh? :rolleyes:

J&C
 
JessandCharlie said:
Agree with Evelyn, have a play with putting reins in the middle slot between the loops :) Problem is, you might find poll pressure useful generally if he's a bit strong (although everyone on HHO knows schooling is the way forward ;) :p) but, if he puts his chin on his chest when he sods off the poll pressure won't help that one iota IMO. When he tanks, have you tried asking for some shoulder in, or putting your legs on to try and make him work a bit more through and stop him going BTV? (I know the last thing you want to do on a tanking horse is put your leg on, but it does work for some :))

Sorry if I'm not making any sense, I think I have concussion :p Blimmin' horses, who'd have 'em, eh? :rolleyes:

J&C
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I have definitely tried the leg on when bolting, and it does work. However, if he's bronced and got me off, I can't put leg on as I'm on the floor! :p
The poll pressure is greatly helpful, and as we can't school (no arena) then it's the only thing I rely on! :rolleyes:

Haha, what does BVT mean? :confused:
 
horseless jorge! said:
I have definitely tried the leg on when bolting, and it does work. However, if he's bronced and got me off, I can't put leg on as I'm on the floor! :p
The poll pressure is greatly helpful, and as we can't school (no arena) then it's the only thing I rely on! :rolleyes:

Haha, what does BVT mean? :confused:
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Ah, that's good! But broncing isn't much fun, hats off to you for sitting it out :p Good luck with him :)

J&C
 
Hmm just to put my two pennith in!

The wilkie has a ring on top of the cheek, beval has it underneath. The bit OP originally shows is a beval. Bevals were around first, originally invented for driving, Wilkies are a newer invention, made for showing ponies in. Many people get the two confused so don't worry OP, even on search engines it is difficult to find the right ones!

With regards your pony, I wonder if his broncing is because he dislikes the strength of this bit, if his head his pulled to his chest and also poll pressure from the lever action of this bit he will feel very restricted and broncing is the only way he sees to resolve the situation. As others have said lots of schooling will help. I nwould also change the bit to something milder, possibly a hanging cheek or even just a standard loose ring or eggbutt snaffle. I would work on schooling him through loads of transitions, intially very basic ones, walk to halt then walk on again then halt again, get him really listening to you in walk before you progress to trot, then do lots of trot to walk to trot to walk and also a few halt transitions thrown in, if you feel like you are loosing control come down a pace. Don't even attempt canter until you feel you have him listening and under control. Also do lots of circles and serpetine-type movements to get him supple and make it easier to turn him if he does try to gallop off. Initially try to avoid putting him in situations were he might bolt until you have his behaviour more under control, he must learn to listen to you rather than fight you. Of course this also requires consistent riding with lots of praise where it's due and being clear and firm if nessecary in what you want, though never harsh, don't give him reasons to want to fight you. Hope this helps, sorry it is quite long! Best wishes PL :)
 
jemima_too said:
BTV = Behind The Vertical
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Ah I see, yep that's him all over!!

JessandCharlie said:
Ah, that's good! But broncing isn't much fun, hats off to you for sitting it out :p Good luck with him :)

J&C
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Haha a few times he's suceeded, but he's very easy to sit to! :p

Paint it Lucky said:
Hmm just to put my two pennith in!

The wilkie has a ring on top of the cheek, beval has it underneath. The bit OP originally shows is a beval. Bevals were around first, originally invented for driving, Wilkies are a newer invention, made for showing ponies in. Many people get the two confused so don't worry OP, even on search engines it is difficult to find the right ones!

With regards your pony, I wonder if his broncing is because he dislikes the strength of this bit, if his head his pulled to his chest and also poll pressure from the lever action of this bit he will feel very restricted and broncing is the only way he sees to resolve the situation. As others have said lots of schooling will help. I nwould also change the bit to something milder, possibly a hanging cheek or even just a standard loose ring or eggbutt snaffle. I would work on schooling him through loads of transitions, intially very basic ones, walk to halt then walk on again then halt again, get him really listening to you in walk before you progress to trot, then do lots of trot to walk to trot to walk and also a few halt transitions thrown in, if you feel like you are loosing control come down a pace. Don't even attempt canter until you feel you have him listening and under control. Also do lots of circles and serpetine-type movements to get him supple and make it easier to turn him if he does try to gallop off. Initially try to avoid putting him in situations were he might bolt until you have his behaviour more under control, he must learn to listen to you rather than fight you. Of course this also requires consistent riding with lots of praise where it's due and being clear and firm if nessecary in what you want, though never harsh, don't give him reasons to want to fight you. Hope this helps, sorry it is quite long! Best wishes PL :)
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Many, MANY thanks to you! Unfortunately we don't have a school, and the times he's taken off with me have been when schooling in a big open field, very tempting for a pony! :rolleyes:
I can see how the strong action and poll pressure would make him bolt, so I think a loose ring or a hanging cheek will be fantastic for him.
 
You're welcome. Don't worry about not having a school, obviously it can help but schooling in a field can be very usefull too. Not sure if you say how old your pony is, I do find with a lot of young or unbalanced horses they find it hard to canter slowly or insmall spaces so it is usefull to have a big field to school this pace in, it can really help if you just take your weight off their back a little and let them run on for a while and just steer round until they gradually build strength and balance, trying to restrict to much particularly in this pace can lead to problems, maybe this would work with your horse? Depends why he is bolting. I hope you can find a solution :)
 
Paint it Lucky said:
You're welcome. Don't worry about not having a school, obviously it can help but schooling in a field can be very usefull too. Not sure if you say how old your pony is, I do find with a lot of young or unbalanced horses they find it hard to canter slowly or insmall spaces so it is usefull to have a big field to school this pace in, it can really help if you just take your weight off their back a little and let them run on for a while and just steer round until they gradually build strength and balance, trying to restrict to much particularly in this pace can lead to problems, maybe this would work with your horse? Depends why he is bolting. I hope you can find a solution :)
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He's just turned 8, but he's been out of real work for a while, and hasn't done an awful lot. He is predominantly a prance around the ring show pony, so he doesn't have a lot of bend/ transition schooling in him. :(
He does love a good canter in the field, but at the moment, I ask for canter and just get a broncing session, and I mean head between the knees and no chance of me regaining control. When I do kick on and make him work, he does give me all he's got, but it's just about me getting the confidence to do so!!
 
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