From hairy cob to sport horse and a colored showing question.

Thats my opinion yes MG, if it is fitted correctly I can certainly see why it never took off as a popular bit. Actually worn with a weymouth bridle I think that its quite a clever bit.
 
Vizslak said:
Thats my opinion yes MG, if it is fitted correctly I can certainly see why it never took off as a popular bit. Actually worn with a weymouth bridle I think that its quite a clever bit.
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Isn't that what rugby pelhams are really for?

ETA - No, its all right, I've got my head round it now. They can be used with slip head to look like a double, this belton actually works a bit like a double? That would make sense and means it is definitely incorrectly fitted.
 
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Well, put it this way, whether it's fitted correctly for the horse is redudant - it is NOT correctly fitting for the show ring as there is no sliphead and, unless as Patches says a very loose one is fitted to the top ring, it is impossible to fit a sliphead without reintroducing poll action.

Which, if I'm honest, I'd put one on just to prevent the curb chain from nutcrackering.

Patches - Because Dorey hates her pelham I only use it for shows and dress-rehursals. The rest of the time she's in a loose ring french link snaffle - just about the only thing lighter than that is a straight bar, I think!

Thing is, because I only use it for showing, Dorey has now been conditioned that the pelham means party time, so as long as I keep that curb rein slack she will ignore her hatred of it to show off (never have I ever met a horse who loves showing off so much!).
I absolutely cannot hack her in it as she bolts to make her displeasure clear, even if I were to drop the curb rein entirely!!

I'll probably get slammed for this, but IMO if you can't ride a horse correctly in a pelham then it is no good as a show horse. The point is that everyone shows off their animals in the same tack to give an even playing field. To remove the poll action of the pelham says the animal is poorly schooled and I wouldn't place it higher than animals working properly in pelhams or double bridles with poll action.

Truth is, whether it suits the horse or not, that bit is just no good for showing cobs in!
 
Flame_ said:
Isn't that what rugby pelhams are really for?
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Yes but they arent dressage legal (neither is this but I think that was what was being aimed at). They also produce pressure on the bars of the mouth when the curb is used, this bit wouldnt as the curb moves independantly of the mouth of the bit.
 
can any body tell me if this bit was made and designed to be worn like this, or, if it has been adapted by some, to be worn this way. That might clear up some debaiting issues.
 
I dont think its a witch hunt, I'm generally really interested in this bit and why there is so little information on it.
 
jesstickle said:
Honestly, who cares. The horse looks happy and in good nick and clearly cared for.

Why turn it into a witch hunt?
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Who's turning it into a witch hunt? certainly not me!
I would purely like to find out more about it, it is interesting.
I thought you never stopped learning about horses, how can we learn without asking questions? I you never just take one answer as gospel.
 
So was I v, which is why I asked. I'm probably being over sensitive but it just seems like some people are determined to prove her wrong in that way that sometimes happens on HHO.

I must be hormonal or something!
 
I think I may have to email Paul Belton for a definitive explanation as to the bit, its intended use, its design and how it is properly fitted!
 
That is because, unless I'm missing something, the rider we're talking about thinks she is using a specially developed bit which in spite of its appearance is no harsher than a snaffle, when actually used the way she is using it, it has a harsher action when the curb rein is pulled than any other curb bit I can think of. That is pretty ignorant really. If you need to start using specialist bits you ought first to learn how they work and how to put them on correctly. That is standard horsemanship in my book and it is the sort of thing that gets picked up on on this forum and has been since I joined like four years ago. I don't think this is a witch hunt.
 
I like kerilli's answer. Bit of a contrivance but if it works and is 'kind' by it's lack of ability to crush and press due to how it's fitted, then... Thing is, if it doesn't come with instructions and gets lent to someone who fits it to the cheeks, like a pelham, then what?

And the horse should be slimmed back down and ridden as a sports 'cob' and left with a mane. Was that the original Q?
 
The hairiest pic I can find...
meanddibbssnow.jpg


Clipped out (although not exactly a sport horse)...
002-2-1.jpg


Sorry about the size of pics I've resized them 3 times on photobucket but still appear massive on here :S
 
OP, I can't post a photo as I'ma computer numpty, but we have a little coloured cob of a similar stamp to yours. We pull his mane, trim his feather, and plait his mane and tail for shows. He does all classes at pc, and has won just about every WHP he has ever been in, and placed well in ridden hunter pony. He also does SJ,XC and dressage, as well as mounted games and handy pony (he is a total all rounder star!) He looks like a little sport horse,and really suits being trimmed up. I'm so not a fan of hogging personally - think he would look really plain. I think your horse is a bit lightweight for cob classes as well.

It really depends if you're just going to do showing, or other things too..
 
Flame_ said:
That is because, unless I'm missing something, the rider we're talking about thinks she is using a specially developed bit which in spite of its appearance is no harsher than a snaffle, when actually used the way she is using it, it has a harsher action when the curb rein is pulled than any other curb bit I can think of. That is pretty ignorant really. If you need to start using specialist bits you ought first to learn how they work and how to put them on correctly. That is standard horsemanship in my book and it is the sort of thing that gets picked up on on this forum and has been since I joined like four years ago. I don't think this is a witch hunt.
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must say i agree totally with this.
it does not work 'just like a snaffle' UNLESS you do not have a curb chain on it. as she does, it has leverage when the curb rein is used... very strong leverage actually (because of the lack of a sliphead.)
it's not a witch-hunt, it's an attempt to find out whether it is fitted correctly. it's an interesting bit, anyway.
 
Can i just comment and say that if riverdale wanted/needed advice on her bitting she would ASK for it. If you are interested do it on your own time, not hi-jacking another thread. Thank you.
 
What Riverdalec said is that she was introduced to the bit at a LR clinic - presumably LR herself. Whether LR uses the bit on any of her current horses or not is irrelevant!

To the person who said that you need a sliphead for showing - that is completely and utterly incorrect. There are plenty of people at the top level of showing who use pelhams without a sliphead. The only pelham that requires a sliphead is a rugby pelham and it was designed specifically to look like a double bridle.

As regards the bit itself - my understanding of why Riverdalec uses the bit is that her horse does not like poll pressure and this bit eliminates the poll pressure that one normally associates with moving from a snaffle to a pelham or double. Fitted as it is on her horse, whatever the curb chain does do (and how harsh people think it is) is irrelevant in this case. No matter how tight that curb chain is/goes, it will NEVER contribute to exerting poll pressure which is what she is trying to avoid! Perhaps it is also worth mentioning that, at a showing camp that Riverdalec attended recently, not one of the instructors (ALL top level show producers/riders/judges) suggested it was fitted incorrectly.
 
DiablosGold said:
The hairiest pic I can find...
meanddibbssnow.jpg


Clipped out (although not exactly a sport horse)...
002-2-1.jpg


Sorry about the size of pics I've resized them 3 times on photobucket but still appear massive on here :S
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Looks a lovely pony. :)
I can't comment on showing as i don't have the knowledge, but good luck whatever you decide to do.
And sorry we hyjacked your thread!
 
"What Riverdalec said is that she was introduced to the bit at a LR clinic - presumably LR herself. Whether LR uses the bit on any of her current horses or not is irrelevant"

In fact LR has never heard of, come across, used or has any idea whether a sliphead should be used on this bit or not!
 
Ok, I give up! I was simply trying to clarify the situation and do my best to explain what I interpreted as misunderstandings on the parts of other posters. If I have been misinformed or misread Riverdalec's post then I do apologise.

This thread is, however, a timely reminder about why I don't bother posting on here very often!
 
What because people are curious about something, related to horses that they would like to find out more about??? Isn't that the point of posting on the forum?
 
I checked with LR earlier today purely so we could ALL educate ourselves given what the OP had said.

I really dont see that there is anything wrong in that!

Anyhow. I think its still as clear as mud. However if it works for OP then thats great.
 
spaniel said:
I checked with LR earlier today purely so we could ALL educate ourselves given what the OP had said.

I really dont see that there is anything wrong in that!

Anyhow. I think its still as clear as mud. However if it works for OP then thats great.
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I could be wrong but I dont remeber RC saying LR introduced her to it just that it was introduced to her at a clinic, completely different, why would she lie when so many people are friends of LR and can easily ask her??
 
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