Front shoes vs. boots... how too choose?!

ShadowFlame

ShadowFlame

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Right. I need some opinions, as my head is about to explode!

My cob has never been shod. He has relatively good feet (there's a thread on here somewhere with hoof pics on), and we've had no real problems up to this point. I struggle with his weight as he's a very good doer, so he's ridden as much as possible. Now we have the lighter nights, we're doing a lot more hacking, those hacks are mainly roadwork / stony tracks and we're doing upwards of 2hrs at a time. In terms of fitness, he's coping great - 2.5hrs will barely break a sweat and his weight is finally looking better. However, his feet are looking to be more of an issue.

He's not lame, but his front feet seem to be wearing faster than I'd like and he's becoming footy. He's struggling on stony surfaces, and he's will seek out verges to walk on where he can. Obviously I want to catch this before he really does become sore, but I'm torn on the shod / barefoot debate. I'd rather not let up on the riding - he's done an awful lot of schooling over the winter, he's enjoying hacking a lot more, and I need to keep it up because of his weight.

So. Easy option seems to be front shoes. I'm not against shoes, but I'd rather keep bare if at all possible which leads me to the option of boots. However, a girl on our yard has a set of Cavallo Simples for her laminitic pony, and I can't help but notice how clumpy and awkward they look? My boy has big(!) feet anyway, and I'm wondering if they're just going to be too bulky? He also has heavy feathering which I refuse to take off, so anything that comes above the hairline isn't really going to work.

Opinions, please? :) I have chocolate concrete on offer!

Edit: Just realised the horrendous grammar in the title... *to, not too. That's going to annoy me now. Bah.
 
I used Boa's on my Welsh x TB who has fairly big feet. They worked really well. We don't use them anymore because his feet are brilliant now - rockcrunching and self-trimming. You wouldn't be able to get to that stage with shoes but you might well with boots.
 
I would definitely find some boots for him, but then I'm against shoes for my navicular prone TB
The benefit of boots is you can take them off after the ride, you can't with shoes.
I would get boots on for a day or two just to give his feet a rest but then you can carry on riding bare. His feet will grow faster and catch up with the extra work, so you should need them less and less over time.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I'm going to revise the question after measuring his feet tonight - which boots go up to massive sizes and are worth looking at? :( He's a smidge under 7" widthways(!!!), and he's slightly wider than he is long. Most of the boots don't seem to go above 6"... any ideas? :o
 
Sorry to hijack ShadowFlame but will be watching your post with interest as am in exactly the same situation and was just about to put up a similar post!Not sure if you are but I am now soaking hay at night and weighing, also feeding micronised linseed and pro hoof since Jan, same as you though more work means fronts wearing and footy over stony ground - if I have to shoe I will but really dont want to!
 
janei said:
Sorry to hijack ShadowFlame but will be watching your post with interest as am in exactly the same situation and was just about to put up a similar post!Not sure if you are but I am now soaking hay at night and weighing, also feeding micronised linseed and pro hoof since Jan, same as you though more work means fronts wearing and footy over stony ground - if I have to shoe I will but really dont want to!
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By all means! He has weighed, soaked hay, no supplements right now but he hasn't struggled up until now. With the size of his feet, I'm debating if shoes are our only option? :(

As a comparison, this was taken a couple of weeks ago:

IMG_20130329_084304_841_zpsfb27b4ef.jpg


And this was taken tonight, obvious wear at the toe so it's no wonder he's getting footy :(

IMG_20130407_183206_135_zpsb5935afe.jpg


Farrier is taking a look at him on Wednesday (soonest I can get one out), if he recommends shoes he'll have them on. Just trying to check out other options first though!
 
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OP - photos can be very misleading. But from these alone it does not look like that there is too much wear at the toe, quite the reverse. The walls at the quarters need addressing. You might also then find that he doesn't measure quite so big.
 
I agree with Lucy, from those photos his feet are too long, not too short and they do not look as if they account for him going footie. The grass might though, especially as he is already overweight.

He has more hoof wall at the toe than any horse I have ever had.
 
I'm going to make a point now that I'm slightly clueless when it comes to feet. Up until now I've trusted farrier's judgement.

LucyPriory said:
OP - photos can be very misleading. But from these alone it does not look like that there is too much wear at the toe, quite the reverse. The walls at the quarters need addressing. You might also then find that he doesn't measure quite so big.
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Okay, fair enough. The first pic was taken a week only about 2 weeks after a trim - I take it he wasn't trimmed down correctly in that case??

cptrayes said:
I agree with Lucy, from those photos his feet are too long, not too short and they do not look as if they account for him going footie. The grass might though, especially as he is already overweight.

He has more hoof wall at the toe than any horse I have ever had.
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His feet have always been that thickness at the hoof wall, regardless of being out of work, in work, just trimmed, etc. He is a little overweight at the minute, but he's the lightest he's been in a long time. The field he's in is still very bare, obviously muzzles will be coming out if this weather continues though. He's never been sensitive from grass before (to my knowledge), but this is the first spring / summer he's been in full work.

cptrayes said:
How deep does that split in the central sulcus go??
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I don't have any pics to show how deep that goes, I can get one later on tonight if it's helpful. In all honesty, I'm not too sure. I'll investigate... numpty question but could that be causing footiness...?
 
ShadowFlame said:
I don't have any pics to show how deep that goes, I can get one later on tonight if it's helpful. In all honesty, I'm not too sure. I'll investigate... numpty question but could that be causing footiness...?
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OP your horse should be landing on his heel first.

If that deep slit is very sore from a fungal infection your horse will do everything he can to avoid landing on it because it hurts him. The other place for him to land will therefore be his toe. ie wearing it If he has a fungal infection and you get rid of it he won't be sore any longer, will land on his heel as he should and problem will be resolved. Therefore your horse, who looks to have nice feet will not need shoes.

There is no problem with the thickness of the hoof walls. It is the length of them
If you look at the left hand side of your first pic. You can see at the toe the sole is level with the hoof wall.
Move around the left side towards the heel. Can you see as you get half way around to the heel that the wall sticks up above the sole?
 
paddy555 said:
OP your horse should be landing on his heel first.

If that deep slit is very sore from a fungal infection your horse will do everything he can to avoid landing on it because it hurts him. The other place for him to land will therefore be his toe. ie wearing it If he has a fungal infection and you get rid of it he won't be sore any longer, will land on his heel as he should and problem will be resolved. Therefore your horse, who looks to have nice feet will not need shoes.

There is no problem with the thickness of the hoof walls. It is the length of them
If you look at the left hand side of your first pic. You can see at the toe the sole is level with the hoof wall.
Move around the left side towards the heel. Can you see as you get half way around to the heel that the wall sticks up above the sole?
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Ah okay, I see what you mean. The farrier checking him on Wed is (intentionally) not our usual farrier, just for a second opinion. He appears to be landing heel first, but he is stumbling on stones and seeks out grass verges to walk on rather than tarmac - hence me assuming his feet are getting too low.

It's interesting to hear different opinions guys, thank you. I'm guessing I should be changing farriers if that's the way he's trimming his feet?
 
ShadowFlame said:
His feet have always been that thickness at the hoof wall, regardless of being out of work, in work, just trimmed, etc.
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It's not the thickness it's the height.

He is a little overweight at the minute, but he's the lightest he's been in a long time. The field he's in is still very bare, obviously muzzles will be coming out if this weather continues though. He's never been sensitive from grass before (to my knowledge), but this is the first spring / summer he's been in full work.
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I live at 1100 feet and so far the temperature is still minus at night and never above 8 during the day, usually less. Even I have got grass showing in the poo, and a serious behaviour change in my sensitive one. You aren't seeing it because he is eating it. It's there.


I don't have any pics to show how deep that goes, I can get one later on tonight if it's helpful. In all honesty, I'm not too sure. I'll investigate... numpty question but could that be causing footiness...?
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BIG time if it's deep or sore at the bottom or both! Stick a hoofpick in it and see how deep it goes. Be careful, it may be sore but you need to know where the bottom is.
 
cptrayes said:
It's not the thickness it's the height.

You aren't seeing it because he is eating it. It's there.

BIG time if it's deep or sore at the bottom or both! Stick a hoofpick in it and see how deep it goes. Be careful, it may be sore but you need to know where the bottom is.
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I would trim the foot differently for sure. The heel buttresses are not established and this is a strong indicator that the heel is not being loaded/used effectively. High heels like this also unbalance the pedal bone and can overload the tip.

Many many peeps are in denial about grass :-) As CPTrayes says, it's not there because they have eaten it. A bit like the cakes in my house......... Footiness at this time of year is often down to the new grass coming in.

Re central sulcus, you can also try coating a good quality cotton bud with sudocrem or nappy rash cream in order to clean out and depth test the central sulcus. Cheap cotton buds tend to break.
 
cptrayes said:
I live at 1100 feet and so far the temperature is still minus at night and never above 8 during the day, usually less. Even I have got grass showing in the poo, and a serious behaviour change in my sensitive one. You aren't seeing it because he is eating it. It's there.

BIG time if it's deep or sore at the bottom or both! Stick a hoofpick in it and see how deep it goes. Be careful, it may be sore but you need to know where the bottom is.
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I'm aware grass is starting to come through :confused: hence the comment that the muzzle will be out if the weather keeps up. We're still at minus numbers here overnight aswell. As already stated, he's never been footy as a result of grass. There are no behaviour changes, at all.

I'll sack the farrier and get someone else to give his feet a going over, see where we can get. Thanks for replies.
 
I've been thinking of boots for the hairy highland as well for similar reasons to you ... Need to do more road work than his feet are up to. Friend has a barefoot welshie and uses Old Mac G2 boots which look great, fit well and don't bother him at all at any pace. A it expensive though!
 
quality of the trim to one side, I considered front shoes but have stuck with using renegades on the front for long road work, they are very easy to take on and off so I would do road work and then slip them of once off road (partly coz mud has been so bad no boots would stay on) We do about 10 miles a day on average on all terrain

If getting footy then as others have said look at the diet and hoof management first, once the shoes are on they may just mask the underlying issues
 
Just thought I'd update and say that we had front shoes put on yesterday. After doing some more research, the only boots that would go big enough for his massive feet were specially made ones and were obscene amounts of money. I had two different farriers tell me that the footiness is due to overwear, and I'm conscious that I want his work upped rather than slowed. We're going to revisit barefoot in the future, maybe whip them back off again for winter :)

Thanks for the advice.
 
Re : boots for bigger footed horses, the Boa boots come up quite big, my mares feet at 170mm all round and they fit her fine , also they are pretty tough - if the wires break you just replace that part which is quite handy
 
Thanks Jess, I'll bare that in mind in case we need them in the future :)

Haha. Gloi. I love the sarcasm. My farrier has been all for barefoot, and in all the times he's come out, yesterday is the only time he's suggested shoes. He's told me to keep him barefoot behind as his feet are more concave and are coping better, he's also told me that we can whip them back off again when circumstances allow - as it is, 6-10hrs a week on the roads is just a little too much for them right now. Damn me trying to keep my horse comfortable :rolleyes:
 
Mine can manage about 15 miles a week without shoes on but he wears his front feet unevenly and gets footsore if we do too much so any miles above that I put boots on him for :) . This works really well for us.
I don't have him shod because his feet don't grow very fast and break up around the nail holes which caused us no end of problems over the years until I started him in his boots.
If this summer is drier than last year we may be able to manage more miles without boots as his feet should be harder, touch wood.
 
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Fair enough, I'm glad your horse's feet are that good! :)

As it is, Rods has always been slightly uncomfortable on stoney tracks, and lately has been reluctant to stride out on even flat tarmac. His feet are very wide, and he wears more at the toe. I would love to be able to back off the work and allow his feet to balance themselves out, but he's getting bored of the school (which he's not much a fan of anyway), and all of our hacking is majority road work. He's overweight for the time of year, and moderate work just isn't shifting it. I'm doing what I (and various farriers) feel is best for him, taking a front shod pony over a sore-footed and obese pony, and I'll be looking to get them back off again when we can :)

IMO, barefoot is better, but shoes do have their place. Really makes me crave better hacking, though :(
 
ShadowFlame said:
Just thought I'd update and say that we had front shoes put on yesterday. After doing some more research, the only boots that would go big enough for his massive feet were specially made ones and were obscene amounts of money. I had two different farriers tell me that the footiness is due to overwear, and I'm conscious that I want his work upped rather than slowed. We're going to revisit barefoot in the future, maybe whip them back off again for winter :)

Thanks for the advice.
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Boas used to be made in sizes big enough for a shire. I think they still are, but no routinely stocked in those sizes in the UK.

The two farriers who have advised you that her soreness is due to excess work could well be right, if only your photos had shown worn feet, which they don't. Some horses need any increase in work built up very gradually, to allow a faster hoof growth to trigger to cope with it. Some horses can't do it at all unless their diet is spot on perfect, and it can be difficult to get that, especially in a livery yard.

Your description of 'wide but wearing away the toe', by the way, would more often be a description of a foot which has been allowed to grow too long than one that is worn too short. Your pictures appear to bear that out, the feet are too long, not too worn, unless the photos are deceptive. That might be of interest for when you try to take the shoes off next time.
 
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Thanks for the info. Perhaps pics are deceptive, but they were visibly shorter at the front than they were when he was fully sound. His feet looked to be wearing quicker than usual, and he was telling he was sore. It's the first time we've had issues with his feet, so I'm inclined to believe him. He was less sore after having a week off of roadwork, but I can't be doing that it routinely, unfortunately.

In terms of wide, I mean that his hoof is naturally wide. They're big feet anyway, and they're wider than they are long. They always have been.

Just realised that it was Boas I was told had been discontinued. Horses for courses and all that... all that matters is that he's comfortable while I try to shed some weight off him. Shoes aren't the be-all and end-all of everything, and he won't have them on permenantly :)
 
OK, well for what it's worth, and it may help others maybe, here's my take on what is going on with your horse.

He is overweight, and many overweight horses have sore soles. He did not feel the soles when he had hoof wall proud all around his feet. You've increased his exercise to try to get his weight down, and his hoof wall at the toe has now worn to a height which is absolutely normal for a barefoot horse. But now he can feel the sore soles.

That would mean that it's not the wear that has cause the problem, but that it was there all along. Of course the right thing to do is to keep the work up to get his weight down, and if you can't get boots to fit then shoeing was a good option.

When his weight is down, the footiness may disappear and you may be able to work him barefoot then. But if he wears his toes to where they are in those photos again, please don't attribute soreness to the length of hoof wall at the toe being insufficient, because what I see in your photos is still longer than any of my horses have or had.
 
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