Daisychain
Well-Known Member
I have picked my stallion, who is actually deceased, but was warned frozen isnt always as good, why is this exactly? thanks.
Frozen Semen..
- Thread starter Daisychain
- Start date
AndyPandy
Well-Known Member
His frozen semen "is as good" as.... as good as what? Do you mean it's quality is variable?
In general, success rates with frozen semen (in terms of pregnancy rates) are lower than with fresh or chilled semen. This is because the sperm cells are subjected to huge stressed during the freezing process, and again through the thawing process. This leads to a lower number of live and viable sperm being inseminated, than you would have with a chilled insemination.
Not all stallions have sperm cells that can be frozen and thawed successfully. And even those that do, have very variable results in terms of subsequent pregnancy rates.
I would ask the stud or agent about what the per cycle and per season success rates are for his frozen semen, and get more information about the "not as good" line.
In general, success rates with frozen semen (in terms of pregnancy rates) are lower than with fresh or chilled semen. This is because the sperm cells are subjected to huge stressed during the freezing process, and again through the thawing process. This leads to a lower number of live and viable sperm being inseminated, than you would have with a chilled insemination.
Not all stallions have sperm cells that can be frozen and thawed successfully. And even those that do, have very variable results in terms of subsequent pregnancy rates.
I would ask the stud or agent about what the per cycle and per season success rates are for his frozen semen, and get more information about the "not as good" line.
sallyf
Well-Known Member
AP what would you expect motility to be with good frozen.
We have just inseminated deep uterine with some frozen which the stud say is not top class .
Unfortunately we couldnt get chilled as not avaliable at the last minute.
On the paperwork it said 30% motility but when the vet checked it he said 15% but that the 15% was excellent and so definatley worth trying.
He is very experienced with frozen as well so took his word for it.
Now i have been quite fortunate in that the stud havnt charged me for the semen as they let me down and they have sent alot as in 3 doses for each mare.
They have also promised me chilled next time if this fails.
Dose was supposed to be 8 straws but vet has used 10 to make up for the motility to get a big enough quantity of motile semen to do the job.
They have had pregnancies with the frozen and the stallion is only avaliable frozen after the end of June anyway as competing so what do you think the % should be to be expected to be successful.
BTW we scan first mare done with frozen on monday so keeping everything crossed.
We have just inseminated deep uterine with some frozen which the stud say is not top class .
Unfortunately we couldnt get chilled as not avaliable at the last minute.
On the paperwork it said 30% motility but when the vet checked it he said 15% but that the 15% was excellent and so definatley worth trying.
He is very experienced with frozen as well so took his word for it.
Now i have been quite fortunate in that the stud havnt charged me for the semen as they let me down and they have sent alot as in 3 doses for each mare.
They have also promised me chilled next time if this fails.
Dose was supposed to be 8 straws but vet has used 10 to make up for the motility to get a big enough quantity of motile semen to do the job.
They have had pregnancies with the frozen and the stallion is only avaliable frozen after the end of June anyway as competing so what do you think the % should be to be expected to be successful.
BTW we scan first mare done with frozen on monday so keeping everything crossed.
AndyPandy
Well-Known Member
Well, I guess from the paperwork saying 30% that the semen was pretty borderline anyway, when it was frozen. The industry cut-off for "acceptable" frozen semen varies from 25-35% progressive motility post thaw. Do you know where it was frozen? On average, I'd expect to see frozen-thawed semen with a motility of 35-60%.
That said, progressive motility is only a POSSIBLE indicator of the potential fertility of frozen semen. There is no single lab test which can accurately predict the fertility of frozen-thawed semen. You might have a sample which is 100% motile on thawing, and has a pregnancy rate of 0%, and you might have semen which is 5% motile, and has a 100% pregnancy rate (although, obviously both of those are unlikely).
The best indicator that is easily looked for is RAPID & PROGRESSIVE MOTILITY. Measuring velocity (subjectlively) on a 1-5 scale, you'd hope that the thawed sperm are between 3-5/5 (where 1 is still, and 5 is moving so fast that it's hard to track an individual sperm across the microscope field). So, I assume when the vet said the motile sperm were "excellent", he meant the velocity was good, in which case you have a good chance.
I'm glad the vet has used the extra straws - that is sensible. I'm assuming the semen was packed at 100 million per straw (or more)? That will give you the bare minimum number of progressively motile sperm (150 million). Below that, pregnancy rates drop significantly.
The final thing, will be insemination regimes... What regime did your vet use?
Sorry about the length of that... it turned into a bit of a mammoth!!!
That said, progressive motility is only a POSSIBLE indicator of the potential fertility of frozen semen. There is no single lab test which can accurately predict the fertility of frozen-thawed semen. You might have a sample which is 100% motile on thawing, and has a pregnancy rate of 0%, and you might have semen which is 5% motile, and has a 100% pregnancy rate (although, obviously both of those are unlikely).
The best indicator that is easily looked for is RAPID & PROGRESSIVE MOTILITY. Measuring velocity (subjectlively) on a 1-5 scale, you'd hope that the thawed sperm are between 3-5/5 (where 1 is still, and 5 is moving so fast that it's hard to track an individual sperm across the microscope field). So, I assume when the vet said the motile sperm were "excellent", he meant the velocity was good, in which case you have a good chance.
I'm glad the vet has used the extra straws - that is sensible. I'm assuming the semen was packed at 100 million per straw (or more)? That will give you the bare minimum number of progressively motile sperm (150 million). Below that, pregnancy rates drop significantly.
The final thing, will be insemination regimes... What regime did your vet use?
Sorry about the length of that... it turned into a bit of a mammoth!!!
sallyf
Well-Known Member
AP mare was scanned at home until she was ready for an ovuplant and then went into the clinic and was scanned every six hrs till she ovulated which was bang on 48 hrs after the ovuplant she was them inseminated by deep uterine .
Flushed at the surgery and came home and was flushed again here by myself.
Dont know what the straw doses were or where they were packed although i have got a straw down at the yard that got left in the shipper by mistake so i will go and have a look tomorrow.
I know they are green thats all
I know the vet worked out that 10 straws should give us a good enough dose so think he did very thorough checks for total dose of motile sperm etc.
Vet is a dutch chap and has done an awful lot of frozen inseminations over a lot of years so hopefully we might be rewarded with a pregnancy.
No complaints about the stud they did tell me everything up front .
Flushed at the surgery and came home and was flushed again here by myself.
Dont know what the straw doses were or where they were packed although i have got a straw down at the yard that got left in the shipper by mistake so i will go and have a look tomorrow.
I know they are green thats all
I know the vet worked out that 10 straws should give us a good enough dose so think he did very thorough checks for total dose of motile sperm etc.
Vet is a dutch chap and has done an awful lot of frozen inseminations over a lot of years so hopefully we might be rewarded with a pregnancy.
No complaints about the stud they did tell me everything up front .
Daisychain
Well-Known Member
Thanks AP, the stallion has actually had a very high percentage of mares get in foal, so i would imagine his mobility must be good, my mare is 17 and always caught first time in previous natural services and has had 3 successful pregnancys, i think from what the stud was saying they have plenty of frozen to use, so i should think this would help too. Fingers x as really like stallion, but he has been dead for 9yrs!
casey2312
Well-Known Member
My last 2 mares have been AI'd with frozen semen, and both got pregnant on the 1st straw. One was an experienced dam, having had 5 previously and this one is maiden.
Edited to add, I used the same stallion for both.
Edited to add, I used the same stallion for both.
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
PF was inseminated with frozen. Vet advised me that the stallion's semen wasn't very good, and yet all his mares (including PF) got pregnant at the most at the second go. I expect a lot depends on how it's handled and the expertise of the vets/technicians in charge.
Anyway, I'm happy because it worked for PF
Anyway, I'm happy because it worked for PF
KenRehill
Well-Known Member
Which stallion did you use(I mean the one thayt's been dead for 9 years)
Daisychain
Well-Known Member
I went for Odysseus in the end International grade A Hannoverien. Stands at Alvescot Stud.
AndyPandy
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
...my mare is 17 and always caught first time in previous natural services and has had 3 successful pregnancys...
[/ QUOTE ]
As she is older, make sure your vet treats her as an older mare who is likely to have uterine clearance issues. This means oxytocin or reprocine injections to clear any fluid in the days after AI. Frozen semen is EXTREMELY irritating to the equine uterus, and for older mares, pharmacological intervention is almost always needed to clear any uterine fluid buildup.
...my mare is 17 and always caught first time in previous natural services and has had 3 successful pregnancys...
[/ QUOTE ]
As she is older, make sure your vet treats her as an older mare who is likely to have uterine clearance issues. This means oxytocin or reprocine injections to clear any fluid in the days after AI. Frozen semen is EXTREMELY irritating to the equine uterus, and for older mares, pharmacological intervention is almost always needed to clear any uterine fluid buildup.
flipflop
New User
I'd say frozen semen, actually all AI, is only as good as your vet or AI technician....