Frozen semen...

[Passionflower]

I'm planning to put my mare in foal for this year. Before anybody starts this foal is for ME and il be keeping it but just wondering, I've found a stallion I definitely want to use it only covers frozen and it's in the other side of the country. The stallion owner is saying the collection of the frozen semen is up to me, is this not included in the price or for them to sort out? If not, how do I go about it? Thanks

 

[TheMule]

They said what?!
Walk away, far more hassle than its worth. It's perfectly normal to pay a collection fee and transport costs to get the semen to you on top of the stud fee, but expecting you to arrange it yourself works how?!

 

[Alec Swan]

I'm planning to put my mare in foal for this year......
The stallion owner is saying the collection of the frozen semen is up to me, .....
Thanks

I'm wondering if this thread wouldn't be better off in The Club House, and receiving the attention of a certain Ms jhoward. :eek3:

Alec.

 

[Clodagh]

I have only bred one so am far from an expert, but surely the whole point of frozen only is the stallion can produce it at a convenient time with his workload, so surely there is loads of it sitting in the freezer and you just need to order it and stick it in your - or more likely I suppose, your vets freezer until ovulation?
I would use a good repro place for frozen, if you find a stud in your area - Groomsbridge down Newmarket way (as I know them) or whoever is closest to you and get them to organise it.

 

[Aredis]

Where and how are they storing it ? Most frozen semen is kept at Stallion AI, West Kington or other specialist facility.
The company storing will despatch and charge you for the delivery to the AI centre or vet you are using.

If they are not prepared to arrange delivery walk away.

 

[eventrider23]

I would imagine they probably mean that you need to ring the centre that stores the frozen and arrange for it to be sent to you. This is standard when dealing with frozen as the more delicate nature of it means that it needs to be handled properly by the right professionals or else it could be compromised and so the owner will likely have no contact with it. What is the normal process with places like Stallion AI, etc is you pay the owner and confirm things with them...they will then contact the centre that stores the frozen and give your information and permission for semen to be sent out to you. You then contact the storage centre and pay them the shipping costs for the frozen (paying shipping for frozen is standard across the industry) and they will then ship it to you/your vets.

 

[popsdosh]

I think the OP may be getting confused .Are sure they had not just told you that you are responsible for the cost of transport ! As this would be the norm then whoever is holding the frozen semen will arrange the transport to wherever you have arranged to store it your end,this will usually be the vet doing AI or a stud that has a nitrogen flask.

 

[Deli]

I really would avoid frozen semen at all costs. I used it for the first time in 2013. The mare had to stay at Rossdales which cost a fortune, you have to order it from Stallion AI (that's £150 or so) plus they have to do it right at a precise time, then we bought her home, she didn't take, back she went again, did the process again. She did take the second time luckily. Its just so expensive and the success is lower.

I would choose fresh all day long. I used the stallion company and rate them highly, mare came in season, ordered the semen, it arrived, vet put in in, and pregnant. It was still costly (of course) but a more pleasant experience.

I found you can still get some good stallions fresh, its personal choice?

 

[Alec Swan]

I really would avoid frozen semen at all costs. I used it for the first time in 2013. The mare had to stay at Rossdales which cost a fortune, you have to order it from Stallion AI (that's £150 or so) plus they have to do it right at a precise time, then we bought her home, she didn't take, back she went again, did the process again. She did take the second time luckily. Its just so expensive and the success is lower.

.......

I'm really sorry, but I can't let that one go by!!

Rossdales are the attending vets at Groomsbridge Stud, and "Frozen Semen" is their bread and butter, it's what they do, EVERY single day of a seven day week, and with consummate success. I really don't see where the problem is, providing that the attendants know what they're doing.

Frozen semen, within the hands of a fool will result in failure, but in the hands of the experienced, the success rate of Frozen is as Chilled or Natural Covering.

Providing that the correct protocol is followed, then there is nothing to fear.

Alec.

 

[eventrider23]

Well said Alec! Last year we must have done around 15+ Frozen AI's and every single one bar 2 which were problems to do with the mares having 'issues' took first time. In the right hands frozen is excellent. It just depends on the individual....in the same way some mares will only take via natural....some will only take frozen and so on. Some of course it won't work on but then that comes down to experience and finding out what works and what doesn't.

 

[popsdosh]

I really would avoid frozen semen at all costs. I used it for the first time in 2013. The mare had to stay at Rossdales which cost a fortune, you have to order it from Stallion AI (that's £150 or so) plus they have to do it right at a precise time, then we bought her home, she didn't take, back she went again, did the process again. She did take the second time luckily. Its just so expensive and the success is lower.

I would choose fresh all day long. I used the stallion company and rate them highly, mare came in season, ordered the semen, it arrived, vet put in in, and pregnant. It was still costly (of course) but a more pleasant experience.

I found you can still get some good stallions fresh, its personal choice?

What a load of one sided claptrap could have been written by the man himself!
A small proportion of mares will be easier to get in foal with certain methods however there are pros and cons of each method and from experience frozen gives you the most stress free experience as the semen is there for when it is needed ,you dont have to worry if its a weekend or if the mare is late ovulating etc and the timing can be spot on. To be totally honest if the mare conceived on second attempt I really dont see how you call that a disaster.
The success of any AI has a huge amount to do with the operator!So choose a vet or stud with a proven record in fertility work.

 

[madlady]

Firstly I do not agree with all the posters saying not to use frozen semen.

It is absolute tosh that it's more expensive than natural covering or fresh semen. I've used both.

It's also perfectly normal for the stud to tell you to arrange your own collection - you can get someone who does AI services to do that on your behalf but a lot of studs these days do have a transport container. I generally send of my container, they charge up the container and put in the straws then send it back to me (well to my vet!) I either book the courier myself or ask the sending stud to do it for me and then I pay the bill.

The last time I used frozen it was from Holland - I wanted frozen semen from 2 different stallions at 2 different collection stations. The stallion owners in Holland arranged for the semen to be got together at the same collection station. I sent my container, they charged it with gas, put in the semen and relevant health certificates, then returned it to my vet.

My vet did a fixed price package for AI insemination which covered all scans and injections, I had to pay for an overnight stay on top and that was it. Both mares in foal on the 2nd cycle.

 

[Deli]

Based on experience we found frozen more stress, I know you all disagree. But it was a stressful time and the fresh mare wasn't, therefore that was my experience of it all... Luckily all of you guys obviously were lucky.

My mare also had the drug that makes them ovulate in 48hours administered red by rossdales (forgot the name) and then she didn't take and then due to he drug she refused to come back in season, therefore I think you'll agree for us we didn't enjoy using frozen.

 

[popsdosh]

Its not lucky its the norm. Your experience could easily have been the other way around depending on the mares. I really dont see where the stress came from that is pretty much the norm in any breeding cycle perhaps you got over anxious about things as it is pretty much industry standard to use drugs in this way as it makes the whole process much more predictable and it is the reason that conception rates on the whole have risen whatever method of insemination is used.

 

[Spring Feather]

I really would avoid frozen semen at all costs. I used it for the first time in 2013.

So you've used frozen once? That's your total experience of it?

OP I use frozen a lot and have had 100% success rates, even with one mare I simply could not get pregnant using fresh chilled. One dose of frozen and she took. In 2013 alone I used frozen on two mares (one known to be tricky to get pregnant) and BOTH took on a third of a dose; now THAT'S a good repro vet who is capable of getting that result! Frozen is just as successful as fresh providing you check conception rates, have a good repro vet and know what you're doing! I much prefer using frozen tbh as I have all my semen stored in my nitrogen tank at home so it's there at exactly the moment I need it.

 

[Rollin]

I know of a pure bred CB mare who has been to stud, twice in France, and with one paid for shipment of frozen semen, produced two foals both colts.

Another CB breeder had great success with Johnathan Pycock, also got two foals for one purchase of frozen semen.

I had awful results with Two CB mares at a stud I used, both empty and a vet bill of about £3,000, cheaper to buy a young stallion which is what I did. He has given me 100% success.

It does depend on the experience/expertise of the centre you use.

 

[Geema]

I know of a pure bred CB mare who has been to stud, twice in France, and with one paid for shipment of frozen semen, produced two foals both colts.

Another CB breeder had great success with Johnathan Pycock, also got two foals for one purchase of frozen semen.

I had awful results with Two CB mares at a stud I used, both empty and a vet bill of about £3,000, cheaper to buy a young stallion which is what I did. He has given me 100% success.

It does depend on the experience/expertise of the centre you use.

Two foals for one purchase of frozen semen? ... two covering certificates issued?

 

[Geema]

I'm planning to put my mare in foal for this year. Before anybody starts this foal is for ME and il be keeping it but just wondering, I've found a stallion I definitely want to use it only covers frozen and it's in the other side of the country. The stallion owner is saying the collection of the frozen semen is up to me, is this not included in the price or for them to sort out? If not, how do I go about it? Thanks

It is good to know the quality of this stallion's frozen semen - it can vary enormously from stallion to stallion and the best vet in the world will have a slim chance if the semen doesn't work. Worth asking people who have used this stallion's frozen semen how they got on.
This is why people can have a negative view of frozen semen, some stallions just do not freeze well, so their fresh and chilled semen would then always be preferable.