Full Livery Expectations

[Starzaan]

That to me is Part Livery. I charge £110 per week (£475pcm) for Part Livery, and it includes - straw bedding (shavings and paper £65pcm extra), ad lib hay or haylage, hard feed, all daily care of the horse 7 days a week, clipping, pulling and trimming, tack cleaning (daily), rugs, boots numnahs etc. washed regularly, preparation for competitions, horse in and clean when owner would like to ride, use of brand new Martin Collins arena, 10,000 acres of off road hacking, jumping paddock, wash box with hot and cold water and solarium about to be installed, heat lamps in all boxes, I am on site, parking for lorries/trailers, turnout all day every day (option for 24/7 in summer) in small groups, year round - basically, owner just turns up and rides.

Full Livery is all of the above, plus six days of exercise a week, and owner is handed a tacked up horse when they arrive, and then hand it back when they're done, and I charge £150 a week (£650pcm) for that.

This is my yard if you're interested in seeing a bit more detail -
http://www.facebook.com/#!/AbbeyBarnEquestrian

 

[noodle_]

full livery here (cheshire) - 85-90 a week! thats expensive to me

south cheshire ive seen full for 55 a week (inc everything)


full livery = all jobs - (feed/bedding.hay etc included - but basic feed) NO exercise... thats probably the difference??


schooling livery is the above + riding



i dont class full livery as exercise included.........!

 

[mynutmeg]

I understand your point. Some clients have had their horses for years and years and simply have no time to do them anymore and want a nice retirement for them. Others are at uni etc and need the peace of mind in knowing that their horse is fully cared for day in day out.

It does mean that we may know some of the horses better than the owner does, but considering we are the ones dealing with day to day care it is a good thing. We can instantly spot 'not normal' behaviour and act on it.

I do understand the need for it, I would just hate it. My girl is turned out in the morning but unless (like now) I'm laid up I do her every evening. I love the relationship I have with her which wouldn't be possible without doing all her care. I'm going to have a couple of years in about 5/6 years time where my career means I simply won't be able to do DIY and I know I'm going to hate it - I hope I can find a yard as nice as yours sounds. I think thats also part of the problem for me with full is that I have been on so many yards that offer full and, apart from one yard, I have never seen the horses looked after to the same extent that I would want for mine, or indeed the same standard of care that the yard owners horses got. I do know there are good full livery yards out there, I'll just ahve to find one

 

[Patterdale]

I last had a horse on livery about 3 years ago in the north east.
It was full livery during the week (everything included, feed, hay, bedding, turnout) and same at weekends except I mucked him out and brought him in. This cost £85/week.

 

[Orls]

I pay £100 a week for full livery which I consider to be very cheap and well worth the money as I couldn't afford the time to own a horse otherwise. This includes daily muck out, hay, bedding, turnout, rug change, car oark space for my trailer, holding for vet/farrier and optional excersise and grooming at my request but at no extra charge. I don't often use them for excersise however and this does not include hard feed which I buy in myself. There's extra charges for clipping and trimming etc. it really does depend on your location and the size of your yard. I've found it to be much more expensive on a larger yard. It may be worth shopping around for a cheaper deal and prices are often negotiable if for example you buy your own feed or bedding which you can often find at a better price by looking around and buying in bulk. Also you could opt out of any excersise to reduce costs, or arrange to do your own holding for vet and farrier.

 

[noodle_]

I last had a horse on livery about 3 years ago in the north east.
It was full livery during the week (everything included, feed, hay, bedding, turnout) and same at weekends except I mucked him out and brought him in. This cost £85/week.

was going to add that too ^^

yard near me does full mon-friday at £75 a week - incules all jobs done those days and bedding.hay/feed etc 7 days a week. (DIY at weekends)

 

[RainbowDash]

My pony is on full livery. That includes all feed, bedding, rug change, hold for farrier/vet, use of schools, horse walker, 24/7 turnout ( grazing May to Nov). It doesn't include groom and exercise unless I let him be used by the riding school for escort work. I pay £230pcm based on 14hh but it goes up to approx £450pcm for say 18hh +.

 

[Bernster]

I'm in Herts and pay slightly more for that, for what I suppose is part livery (7 days) but pretty extensive service. Doesn't include tack cleaning, exercise or grooming. Turnout is pretty good for the area and the facilities are fine, 1 outdoor school kept in good nick, lunge area and walker and reasonable hacking. The horse care is very good - which is one of top things on my list - and it's the friendliest yard I've ever been at.

It's just about commutable for London workers which probably explains the price tag given that it doesn't have swanky indoor school but it's neat and tidy. I've been at yards which were v pricey and had impressive facilities but the horse care was pretty hit and miss.

OP - whereabouts are you in Herts out of interest?

Criso - sounds like you're having fun at the new place which is good news

PS I agree about giving me more time to spend with the horse. I have to have mine on livery given my working hours but it does mean I get to do the fun stuff and miss out on the muckier work and, if I can afford it, why not I say!

 

[georgie256]

When I say I provide full livery, I don't mean exercising as well, so I guess people all have different meanings to the words!

I do - full livery - everything except riding
schooling livery - everything and riding
competition livery - everything/riding and competing
sales livery - everything and riding and showing to customers

 

[Miszeemare]

My livery has just gone up to £100 per week, for that I get all feed, hay, bedding, turn out, bring in, hooves picked, rug changes, mucked out, all 7 days a week. Will also deal with farrier, vet dentist etc and someone lives on site.

The yard is in th south east on edge of private estate so hacking fantastic and they also manage about 6/8 hours turn out a day. There are not many facilities on yard though - one school that we have not been able to use much this winter due to flooding and no running hot water etc. but I pay for the hacking and turn out, they are my priorities.

 

[alainax]

Another vote for full livery meaning horse is basic needs cared for - fed, watered, rugs changed, feet picked, mucking out etc - but no riding/tack cleaning etc

Part livery for me is something inbetween the above and DIY. Like owner does horses at weekends/ nights for example.

Schooling/competition/working/sales livery would be the only ones i expect a horse to get ridden on

But back to the point, £110 doesnt seem very expensive, probably around right for down south.

 

[luckyoldme]

wow you lot must all have amazing jobs, some of these prices are mind blowing!
Thats like £500 per month for a horse.
no wonder no one likes me im a pauper.
(no insult to livery owners..i can see why the prices are so high)..but my god there must be others reading this going red with embarassment because there is just no way i ever could pay that much..with two of us working full time and no kids!

 

[Starzaan]

wow you lot must all have amazing jobs, some of these prices are mind blowing!
Thats like £500 per month for a horse.
no wonder no one likes me im a pauper.
(no insult to livery owners..i can see why the prices are so high)..but my god there must be others reading this going red with embarassment because there is just no way i ever could pay that much..with two of us working full time and no kids!

When people say this to me I always remind them that my prices include ALL bedding, hard feed and hay/haylage. Add up what that would cost you per month, then take that off your bill. The rest includes all labour (I am on the yard at 4:30am every morning, and do late checks at 10:30pm, so that's a lot of hours), maintenance of the yard and land, maintenance of facilities, improvements (such as the lights and mirrors I'm putting on my new arena, and the solariums I'm installing), rent in some cases, and insurance. When I add up all my costs, I make about £3 a week on some of my liveries. My yard pays for itself, and allows me to eat and have my horses and dogs, but I can't go on holiday. However, I love my job so much that I don't feel the need to go on holiday!

ETA - I don't think I could ever afford it either though - it's a lot of money all in one go! I think I'd have to move into a caravan. My rent would cover it!

 

[criso]

I don't think it's that people are rich but there is a big difference in how much you can earn in London and the south east. However everything from rent to livery costs more so it evens out. http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom/other_news/uk_gross_average_earnings.aspx


As someone has said diy is more expensive in the south east and by the time you've added in buying in feed, hay and bedding, some services i.e. maybe a turnout or catch daily and 1 day a week full cover. Then factor in petrol to go to the yard and drive around collecting hay, bedding and feed, the difference between diy and part is not that much.

 

[Laura-Lou80]

Thanks everyone, you have made me realise that I am happy with my yard for all the right reasons for me (and my horse). The yard provides a very high standard of care IMO; the YO has is always willing to share her wealth of knowledge and is an amazing instructor; there is a low turn over of liveries there as everyone has become friends, regardless of age; there is an outside manege and there are some fab hacks around the area too; they have good turn out and accomodate my slightly riggy boy. Ultimately I have peace of mind and you can't put a price on that. I love the fact that I get to work there at the weekend, that way I get to stay involved in every aspect of his care including keeping my hands dirty and spend lots of quality time with my handsome man. There are things that I wish were better, but I realise that they are not really important and I have coped through the winter so roll on spring/summer! xx

 

[PandorasJar]

Wow, round here you wouldn't get DIY for that!
Full to me is everything done in the day to day care of the horse, farrier/dentist etc arranged and attended, feed/forge/bedding supplied and sorted.
No exercise.

I'd be paying several times more than you are currently for it round here though.

 

[PandorasJar]

^ good decision. You and horse being settled and happy with nice liveries and staff is worth paying a few more quid for

 

[T-Bag]

When people say this to me I always remind them that my prices include ALL bedding, hard feed and hay/haylage. Add up what that would cost you per month, then take that off your bill. The rest includes all labour (I am on the yard at 4:30am every morning, and do late checks at 10:30pm, so that's a lot of hours), maintenance of the yard and land, maintenance of facilities, improvements (such as the lights and mirrors I'm putting on my new arena, and the solariums I'm installing), rent in some cases, and insurance. When I add up all my costs, I make about £3 a week on some of my liveries. My yard pays for itself, and allows me to eat and have my horses and dogs, but I can't go on holiday. However, I love my job so much that I don't feel the need to go on holiday!

ETA - I don't think I could ever afford it either though - it's a lot of money all in one go! I think I'd have to move into a caravan. My rent would cover it!

And this is a problem which doen't help you or any other YO though we all do it.

no other business would run like this, so there is an expectation on what livery costs, and that expectation forces all yards to keep their cost down leaving no margin for a real profit (though yards often run at a loss) or in fact money for investment.

Staff if you have any, are paid the least a YO at get away with because the work is there, but the money isn't.

And some/most livery clients dont see it, they want everything and moan about wanting more.

we all know int he last 12 months everything has gone, everything apart from livery prices or least not enough to match the increase of out goings.

Having a horses is expensive, but it's not expensive enough!!

 

[T-Bag]

full livery here (cheshire) - 85-90 a week! thats expensive to me

south cheshire ive seen full for 55 a week (inc everything)

!

God knows how the YO makes any money on this!!

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Same as prices in Surrey for the same service. It costs much more down here as the actual yard rental is more than say, Scotland. Like everything it costs more in the South!. A friend moved to Kent a year or so ago and there was a difference of around £100 a month between Kent and Surrey prices. Same service, products, facilities etc but basic yard rental was apparently a lot less.

Can't say the YO's are raking it in either. Everything keeps going up and we are all being stealth taxed in horrible ways. Salaries aren't increasing but everything else. 3 years ago it cost me £60 to fill up my jeep. Now £60 gives me just over a half tank.

Maybe talk to you YO to see if you could do a 5 day livery? so you muck out? or look for a cheaper livery but I know in our area, prices don't vary that much from yard to yard.

Agree with pricing, round here its £200pw+ for full livery, for all horsecare inc exercising 5 days a week, tho clipping etc is extra. Its similar pricing across the local good yards.

5 day full livery inc horsewalker tho no riding - with part DIY at weekends (horses are fed each end of the day, owners do everything else) at yard very close to me & thats £600pcm.

 

[T-Bag]

5 day full livery inc horsewalker tho no riding - with part DIY at weekends (horses are fed each end of the day, owners do everything else) at yard very close to me & thats £600pcm.

£600pcm a month for 5 day full livery would not only give a profit margin, it would give the yard money for reinvestment.

I charge £370 for this currently

 

[neighneigh]

I pay £130 a week for:

Straw
Hay
Stable
Field
(All of the above is £30 a week)

+
Turn out - 7 days
Bring In - 7 days
Mucking out etc. - 7 days
Ridden - 3 to 5 days for at least an hour (depending on how much I can ride myself)
Grooming - when ridden
Peace of mind!
Great trainer
Outdoor school with lights
Amazing hacking

I supply my own feed and pay for the farrier, vets and worming etc. seperately.

Is this about right cost wise?

 

[T-Bag]

I pay £130 a week for:

Straw
Hay
Stable
Field
(All of the above is £30 a week)

+
Turn out - 7 days
Bring In - 7 days
Mucking out etc. - 7 days
Ridden - 3 to 5 days for at least an hour (depending on how much I can ride myself)
Grooming - when ridden
Peace of mind!
Great trainer
Outdoor school with lights
Amazing hacking

I supply my own feed and pay for the farrier, vets and worming etc. seperately.

Is this about right cost wise?

That is cheap, most places will charge you around 200pw for that, though you would get feed as well

 

[criso]

Neighneigh What you quote would be very cheap round her but may be expensive where you are.

I always think when these threads come up that there is no point comparing what any sort of livery costs in different areas as there are too many variables. I'm sure I could get a much better deal in Derbyshire but it's a long round trip to go and ride.

Just a thought for whether something is expensive or not.

Round here depending on the yard you pay between £1.50 and £2.50 for a catch in/turn out. So someone has to go to a field which if you take my last yard was a 10 - 15 minute walk depending on the field, catch and bring in a horse dealing with the difficult to catch and hard to lead ones. Get in remove heavy wet rugs, replace with whatever combination of hoods, vests, liners and stable rugs the owner wants, remove turnout boots, pick out feet, wash legs if required. Over half an hour so even at the most expensive well below minimum wage.

How many of us would work for that.

 

[T-Bag]

Round here depending on the yard you pay between £1.50 and £2.50 for a catch in/turn out. So someone has to go to a field which if you take my last yard was a 10 - 15 minute walk depending on the field, catch and bring in a horse dealing with the difficult to catch and hard to lead ones. Get in remove heavy wet rugs, replace with whatever combination of hoods, vests, liners and stable rugs the owner wants, remove turnout boots, pick out feet, wash legs if required. Over half an hour so even at the most expensive well below minimum wage.

How many of us would work for that.

But that law doesn't apply to livery yards, as we are suppose to more than min wage but to charge less for their time

not bitter honest!

 

[criso]

But that law doesn't apply to livery yards, as we are suppose to more than min wage but to charge less for their time

not bitter honest!

I'm not saying the law applies or saying how much you should pay, in many cases it's the yard manager/owner doing work on a self employed basis.

I am just making the point that people are very quick to complain if a catch in goes up from £1.50 to £2 and that they charged for extras but don't stop to consider how much work someone is actually doing for a couple of pounds and how hard earned that money is.

 

[T-Bag]

I'm not saying the law applies or saying how much you should pay, in many cases it's the yard manager/owner doing work on a self employed basis.

I am just making the point that people are very quick to complain if a catch in goes up from £1.50 to £2 and that they charged for extras but don't stop to consider how much work someone is actually doing for a couple of pounds and how hard earned that money is.

sorry I wrote the above bady, by law I meant urban law and I am it total agreement with you, which is the point I was trying to make, though poorly written

 

[littlemisslauren]

Just a thought for whether something is expensive or not.

Round here depending on the yard you pay between £1.50 and £2.50 for a catch in/turn out. So someone has to go to a field which if you take my last yard was a 10 - 15 minute walk depending on the field, catch and bring in a horse dealing with the difficult to catch and hard to lead ones. Get in remove heavy wet rugs, replace with whatever combination of hoods, vests, liners and stable rugs the owner wants, remove turnout boots, pick out feet, wash legs if required. Over half an hour so even at the most expensive well below minimum wage.

How many of us would work for that.

That's why no groom will ever tell you they do it for the money!! (Yes... I am a groom/mug)

 

[Bernster]

Here here. I am hugely thankful for the hard work of our grooms and YO/YM. It's a hard job, in tough conditions a lot of the time, especially over the winter, and they are a godsend. I must remember to say that again this weekend, now that I think of it.

It is pricey in terms of monthly cost but poorly paid, which seems a v odd situation. I certainly don't begrudge the livery costs, although the stabling is about the same cost per month!

 

[Starzaan]

And this is a problem which doen't help you or any other YO though we all do it.

no other business would run like this, so there is an expectation on what livery costs, and that expectation forces all yards to keep their cost down leaving no margin for a real profit (though yards often run at a loss) or in fact money for investment.

Staff if you have any, are paid the least a YO at get away with because the work is there, but the money isn't.

And some/most livery clients dont see it, they want everything and moan about wanting more.

we all know int he last 12 months everything has gone, everything apart from livery prices or least not enough to match the increase of out goings.

Having a horses is expensive, but it's not expensive enough!!

Very true. However, although I have no money, and do get incredibly frustrated at times when people tell me that livery is too expensive, it's all worth it when I get texts from my liveries like the one I got this morning, which read - "Thank you so much for having Murphy, he looks so much better and feels like a different horse to ride. He's happier, healthier, and my son is enjoying having a horse again!". That made me sob.

Also when liveries are lovely enough to club together for Christmas presents for me. That's so kind, as I never expect anything from them.