Full Livery Liabilites

[Brownie in Bahrain]

My horse arrived in UK from Bahrain 12th March 2024. He’s liveried on DIY at an equine college where my daughter studies. During college holidays he has to go full livery as my daughter cannot stay in accommodation to look after him. He started full livery on 23rd and by 26th had jumped a gate and damaged his PT tendon. I truly feel not enough thought went into his handling and the huge change in situation he went through moving countries. Never had a horse on full livery before and wondered do they need to carry out risk assessments to reduce the risk of this type of thing happening? The livery agreement (DIY only, not had a specific Full livery contract) waives any responsibility for injury even if the college are at fault.

So we’re left with a horse requiring rehab which will take him into the summer holidays and beyond. Do i move him to a specialist rehab yard and cause more stress? Or leave him on the same yard where this injury happened?

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

Better minds than mine may answer later but my thoughts are another full livery contract should have been prepared as the cost to you will have increased and you need to know what is covered. I believe a risk assessment would have been sensible by the staff and you could ask to see it. But the bottom line is your horse is injured and presumably insured so your choice is finding your daughter digs during holidays so she rehabs consistently during term and holiday or find a rehabbing establishment to do it for her.
I have been on a yard with a thoroughbred who came over from Middle East last year and he settled relatively quickly into grass turn out and a diy situation…accidents like this happen without moving continents sadly.

 

[sport horse]

If you are in a position to do so I would remove him to a specialist rehab yard with all the facilities to give him the best chance of a full recovery. Then continue to 'discuss' liabilities with yard.

 

[ihatework]

Sorry about your horses injury.

I don’t think it really matters what a contract says - if a professional yard is clearly negligent then you would have right to claim on their insurance.

The problem is what constitutes negligence and what constitutes accident - because as we know horses can find multiple ways to kill themselves, and although might have been prevented with hindsight, many are just accidents.

Nothing from what you have written screams liability from the yard, but you can always speak to a legal bod if you want to understand your rights.

Either way, I’d never keep a horse on one of the agricultural college yards. So irrespective of liability I’d move the horse to a smaller more bespoke set up.

 

[Goldenstar]

Horses do dumb things and you left the horse on a yard where turnout is the norm .
I think it’s likely it’s an accident .
You need to concentrate on finding the right rehab yard .

 

[Brownie in Bahrain]

Better minds than mine may answer later but my thoughts are another full livery contract should have been prepared as the cost to you will have increased and you need to know what is covered. I believe a risk assessment would have been sensible by the staff and you could ask to see it. But the bottom line is your horse is injured and presumably insured so your choice is finding your daughter digs during holidays so she rehabs consistently during term and holiday or find a rehabbing establishment to do it for her.
I have been on a yard with a thoroughbred who came over from Middle East last year and he settled relatively quickly into grass turn out and a diy situation…accidents like this happen without moving continents sadly.

Unfortunately not insured as i couldn’t insure him until he arrived in uk and there’s a 14 day cooling off period.. daughter is only 16 so finding accommodation is impossible. I’ve asked the college if she can stay over summer, although not legally obliged but maybe morally obliged..

 

[Brownie in Bahrain]

If you are in a position to do so I would remove him to a specialist rehab yard with all the facilities to give him the best chance of a full recovery. Then continue to 'discuss' liabilities with yard.

Yes, I’m looking at rehab yards only online as yet as I’m still not in uk.

 

[Brownie in Bahrain]

I

Sorry about your horses injury.

I don’t think it really matters what a contract says - if a professional yard is clearly negligent then you would have right to claim on their insurance.

The problem is what constitutes negligence and what constitutes accident - because as we know horses can find multiple ways to kill themselves, and although might have been prevented with hindsight, many are just accidents.

Nothing from what you have written screams liability from the yard, but you can always speak to a legal bod if you want to understand your rights.

Either way, I’d never keep a horse on one of the agricultural college yards. So irrespective of liability I’d move the horse to a smaller more bespoke set up.

I didn’t want to move his country then 10 days later move him again to another yard. In hindsight i should’ve done just that! My daughter is only 16 and so even a local livery yard is difficult as she can’t drive and the location is very rural.

 

[Brownie in Bahrain]

Horses do dumb things and you left the horse on a yard where turnout is the norm .
I think it’s likely it’s an accident .
You need to concentrate on finding the right rehab yard .

I did explain his turnout has been limited for over 10yrs so i would’ve expected a little more care. I was there for the 10 days and we turned him out, he wasn’t going crazy but there was 2 of us and he knows us so i think that made a difference. Actively looking for a yard if you can recommend?

 

[ycbm]

Unfortunately not insured as i couldn’t insure him until he arrived in uk and there’s a 14 day cooling off period.. daughter is only 16 so finding accommodation is impossible. I’ve asked the college if she can stay over summer, although not legally obliged but maybe morally obliged..

The 14 day period covers accidents. This kind of injury is covered from day 1 on a UK insurance policy.

I hope you can get him fixed without further trauma.
.

 

[Goldenstar]

You need to ask people in the area you need I would start with the treating vet they are likely to know all the local rehabs .

 

[sport horse]

Wherabouts is the horse - maybe will help choose a sitable yard. Defo ask treating vet for recommendations.

 

[ROMANY 1959]

Don’t suppose the yard is Hartpury

 

[honetpot]

My horse arrived in UK from Bahrain 12th March 2024. He’s liveried on DIY at an equine college where my daughter studies. During college holidays he has to go full livery as my daughter cannot stay in accommodation to look after him. He started full livery on 23rd and by 26th had jumped a gate and damaged his PT tendon. I truly feel not enough thought went into his handling and the huge change in situation he went through moving countries. Never had a horse on full livery before and wondered do they need to carry out risk assessments to reduce the risk of this type of thing happening? The livery agreement (DIY only, not had a specific Full livery contract) waives any responsibility for injury even if the college are at fault.

So we’re left with a horse requiring rehab which will take him into the summer holidays and beyond. Do i move him to a specialist rehab yard and cause more stress? Or leave him on the same yard where this injury happened?

I would say the college can not disclaim resposibility, that would make it an unfair contract as they are charging for a service, care of the horse. If you are insured I would let insurance companies deal with it. The problem will be proving they were negligent, but it may cover your costs .

Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 2018

ulii.org

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7c7f43ed915d48c241023b/oft311.pdf

Many disclaimers which have such an effect are in fact not allowed under
other legislation and are not legally valid. Exclusions or restrictions of
liability for death or injury caused by negligence are always legally
ineffective – see paragraphs 1.10 to 1.13. But the fact that a term is void
under other legislation – and thus, if it comes before a court, cannot have
the harmful effect intended – is not something that the consumer may be
aware of and so not only is such a term pointless, it is also potentially
misleading. This is liable to make it actionable as an unfair commercial
practice –

I would find somewhere that does horse rehab, I have been on a couple of college yards, the main vibe is they are very busy and often the students are not managed well, I have also been on a racehorse rehab yard and the difference is huge, I live not far from Newmarket so horspitals, and rehab facilities are close together.

 

[Brownie in Bahrain]

The 14 day period covers accidents. This kind of injury is covered from day 1 on a UK insurance policy.

I hope you can get him fixed without further trauma.
.

I did not know that, thank you

 

[Brownie in Bahrain]

I would say the college can not disclaim resposibility, that would make it an unfair contract as they are charging for a service, care of the horse. If you are insured I would let insurance companies deal with it. The problem will be proving they were negligent, but it may cover your costs .

Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 2018

ulii.org

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7c7f43ed915d48c241023b/oft311.pdf

Many disclaimers which have such an effect are in fact not allowed under
other legislation and are not legally valid. Exclusions or restrictions of
liability for death or injury caused by negligence are always legally
ineffective – see paragraphs 1.10 to 1.13. But the fact that a term is void
under other legislation – and thus, if it comes before a court, cannot have
the harmful effect intended – is not something that the consumer may be
aware of and so not only is such a term pointless, it is also potentially
misleading. This is liable to make it actionable as an unfair commercial
practice –

I would find somewhere that does horse rehab, I have been on a couple of college yards, the main vibe is they are very busy and often the students are not managed well, I have also been on a racehorse rehab yard and the difference is huge, I live not far from Newmarket so horspitals, and rehab facilities are close together.

Thank you, I’ll check this out.

 

[Brownie in Bahrain]

Don’t suppose the yard is Hartpury

Nope!

 

[Brownie in Bahrain]

Wherabouts is the horse - maybe will help choose a sitable yard. Defo ask treating vet for recommendations.

He’s in East Yorkshire at the moment.

 

[Brownie in Bahrain]

You need to ask people in the area you need I would start with the treating vet they are likely to know all the local rehabs .

Good idea, I’ll get in touch with him. Is it usual in UK to get a vet report after an ultrasound with pictures, recommendations etc. I’ve not had anything and he scanned on Thursday, or am i being too impatient?!

 

[jules9203]

As a livery yard owner I do risk assessments and (being a small yard) change things to suit each horse as much as I can. Even so a horse can decided to jump a gate for many reasons. Not all of these are avoidable/manageable. I think you will struggle to prove liability (but it's not impossible). Was the horse left out on their own or put in a field with a known "bully"?

 

[Gloi]

If the yard is anything like our local college I wouldn't keep a horse there either. I've seen the student handlers do the stupidest things.
Sorry your horse got injured.

 

[criso]

Good idea, I’ll get in touch with him. Is it usual in UK to get a vet report after an ultrasound with pictures, recommendations etc. I’ve not had anything and he scanned on Thursday, or am i being too impatient?!

I've only had reports when my horse has been an inpatient in the hospital. When my vet scans or x-rays he goes through the findings at the time, I'm usually there and communicates a treatment plan verbally. If I couldn't be there he'd ring me to discuss. I'd probably be able to get a copy if I asked. Was the livery manager there when the vet attended, he may have gone through his findings with them.

 

[Auslander]

I did explain his turnout has been limited for over 10yrs so i would’ve expected a little more care. I was there for the 10 days and we turned him out, he wasn’t going crazy but there was 2 of us and he knows us so i think that made a difference. Actively looking for a yard if you can recommend?

What actually happened? It's hard to comment without knowing the circumstances surrounding the accident? What did they do wrong - in your opinion?

 

[Brownie in Bahrain]

If the yard is anything like our local college I wouldn't keep a horse there either. I've seen the student handlers do the stupidest things.
Sorry your horse got injured.

Im now thinking exactly the same!

 

[Brownie in Bahrain]

What actually happened? It's hard to comment without knowing the circumstances surrounding the accident? What did they do wrong - in your opinion?

I was told he was being hand grazed and the groom let him off the lead and without warning or run up he jumped over the gate. Not sure if she was still in the field or viewing from outside. I was just asking whether a risk assessment would’ve been carried out due to his circumstances, not being used to turnout, new yard, completely new climate etc. i would’ve expected there to be 2 handlers when letting him off his lead rope and in a smaller area. Im still in Bahrain but my daughter retuned yesterday, he’s dropped lots of weight already .

 

[Brownie in Bahrain]

I've only had reports when my horse has been an inpatient in the hospital. When my vet scans or x-rays he goes through the findings at the time, I'm usually there and communicates a treatment plan verbally. If I couldn't be there he'd ring me to discuss. I'd probably be able to get a copy if I asked. Was the livery manager there when the vet attended, he may have gone through his findings with them.

Im still in Bahrain so he phoned my daughter. I’ll ask for a report..

 

[Brownie in Bahrain]

As a livery yard owner I do risk assessments and (being a small yard) change things to suit each horse as much as I can. Even so a horse can decided to jump a gate for many reasons. Not all of these are avoidable/manageable. I think you will struggle to prove liability (but it's not impossible). Was the horse left out on their own or put in a field with a known "bully"?

He certainly wasn’t turned out with anyone as this was something he needed to be introduced to over a period of time. He had 1 paddock buddy in Bahrain but no herd time. Can i ask then, after a risk assessment on your yard what procedures would you have put in place to reduce the risk of anything like this happening? He’s 14, been in Bahrain 11 years, cut late (5 years ago when i got him) and an OTTB. He can be dominant with other horses. Can get excitable on the lunge and sometimes strong to lead in a new environment. Thank you Jules

 

[Melody Grey]

I did explain his turnout has been limited for over 10yrs so i would’ve expected a little more care. I was there for the 10 days and we turned him out, he wasn’t going crazy but there was 2 of us and he knows us so i think that made a difference. Actively looking for a yard if you can recommend?

I think if you were there ‘in person’ and saw the horse turned out ok, the yard may not be at fault- they’ve carried out some due diligence in checking he’s ok with it. Sometimes accidents are just that, accidents.

 

[criso]

Im still in Bahrain so he phoned my daughter. I’ll ask for a report..

You might be better to call. It's not usual to send a written report from a first response vet and it may get pushed a little with other paperwork while they focus on visits. Insurance reports concentrate on different things and usually have an admin fee attached.

It also gives you the chance to ask questions or clarify points you're unsure of.

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

A close friend of mine studied equine management at the same place your daughter is..I ll ask about any local rehabbing places.