Full Loan .. Issues?? Helpp? :( :'(

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GypsyGirl

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Can some people help me please :( ..

I have my mare on full loan, but at the begining of the loan we didnt have a loan agreeement done. (Stupidd) I know .. silly silly girl .. But on sunday were getting a new one.

I just wanted to know what everyone else pays for? Because I pay for all Gyps's injections .. teeth and everything like that. New rugs etc .. But my mum keeps telling me that I shouldnt be the one paying for it because its not actully 100% my horse. Although I love her and everything thats still not the point. But I do pay for them anyways .. but when I first got Gypsy her owners told me that they would pay for vets bills etc so I dont need to worry about all that?

The next thing, EVERYTIME her owners come to see her, they bring about 5 other people with them, (all teenagers no offense teenagers, im one myself) and they all just come and jump and mess around in my field owners private field? Which then starts all the horses off. T

They always critize how she looks ... her weight .. apantly shes ALWAYS fat .. when shes not she looks great .. shes a lightweight cob, and there used to there arabs and slimmer builds and not used to Gypsy anymore. Gypsy also suffers from sweet itch, and I do my best to keep this under control, but she does like to rub her mane so shes kept hogged, which I do.

Im just getting really anoyed and upset of where I stand really, because I dont want them to run across my fields and start the other horses off and I want them to stop all the critising, as I do everything I can for Gypsy, and its just like its all frown in my face after.

I love Gypsy so much and I just wish that at some point I can save up enough to buy her later on.

What would you all do? Because I don't want to loose Gypsy, but I also need to kind of tell them all this?

Help please :( :'( xx
 
It is normal in my experience to pay for ongoing maintenance things like teeth and vaccinations when you are full loaning a horse - basically you are responsible for keeping the horse while it is in your possession. Get your Mum to deal with the owner/their parents if they are under 18 too and explain that while the owner is welcome to come and see Gypsy, they can't bring friends too as the field owner does not like it for security issues and safety issues ;) . It will be better for an adult to say things like that to them as they will most likely take it more seriously than it coming from you. With regard to the weight issues, do you know how to do condition scoring and do you weightape her regularly? If you can do both regularly and write down the results so you've got a record then you and the owners can both see if she is losing or gaining weight.
 
One of mine is out on loan at the moment. I pay for his insurance, vacs and any equipment he needs (new rugs etc) and his loaner pays for his livery, shoes and feed. If she wants to buy him a new rug/numnah etc because it looks pretty than thats up to her, but his essential items of equipment come out of my pocket. Its ultimately my responsibility to ensure he has at least the basic essentials and at the end of the day when he comes home to me I know he will have everything he needs in place.

On the other hand I had my big lad on loan before I bought him (had 6 months loan with view to buy) and he didnt even come with a headcollar! He was unbroken at the time, never been vaccinated or had his feet done and I paid for everything. I was happy to do it though as knew from the beginning I would buy him, just had to get the money together :)

It must be a difficult position to be in. I will admit that if I see anything that worries me concerning the boy I have out on loan I will mention it (he is still on the same yard so I see him every day and have a great relationship with my loaner), but I try to be tactful and not interfere too much. Could you try and sit down with the owner and express your concerns? Ask for a loan agreement to be drawn up at this stage and make sure your both happy with the terms? Has the owner mentioned the prospect of selling the horse to you in the future and if so have you agreed a price etc? That way you could work out how long it would take you to get the money together and possibly write it into the contract? I would also be very annoyed at people coming onto the yard and upsetting the horses and would definitely mention that when they come to visit you would appreciate it if they would remember they are on a yard and not a playground and to act accordingly (or words to that effect!).

Sorry if thats not been much help. I hope you get everything sorted and can get back to enjoying your horsey. If its the one in your sig she looks like a lovely girl and Im not surprised your smitten with her :)
 
I think Bethie has the right idea, can you not just blame the owner of the land and say he/she doesn't like loads of people riding in there as it upsets the horses?

When I had a horse on full loan I paid for all costs unless the horse had a serious health problem that wasn't covered on insurance, in this case we aould spilt the costs.

I think the best thing would be to ignore the comments until you really can't live with them anymore and then have a friendly chat saying everything you said above. Remember that if you come across too narked then they can just up and take the horse away, but that also doesn't mean you can let them walk all over you.

The idea of keeping a chart of her weight is a really good one, maybe ask them how they would like to see their horse looking so you are all singing off the same sheet.
 
have to say I think that being asked to pay for vacs/dentist/insurance etc is very normal for a full loan. my first loan horse came with rugs and tack, second just rugs, I've always taken horses on long term/permanent loans, so Ive expected to pay for these things if Im honest. I know youve learnt from your mistake but this is why a loan agreement upfront always helps, that way you know whos taking responsibility for what!

I do sympathise with the owners critising you, that must be hard because generally people have different ideas about who they would look after a horse, cant really give you advice on what to do there. I've been very lucky with my loan horses owners, that theyve been soo trusting and willing to let me get on with things and use my best judgement.

Hope it all gets sorted out, its not nice if you dotn know where you stand, maybe the owners would respond better if your parents were involved?
 
I have one of my horses on full loan and I pay for everything inc insurance and vacs and all vet bills (in fact part of the agreement is that she is insured for death and that vacs are continued.)
 
Thanks everyone for your comments :)

I do have a weighing tape that I use, my friend Ashleigh on here aswell has a Irish Cob, So were always weighing them to check weight etc.

To be honest, I havnt even asked them if they would consider selling her, so im not even sure about that. I will ask them on Sunday about that when they come up.

All the horses in my field are retiered etc so its quite anoying to see them being chased around the field, I will have to say something now.

Im 18, so my parents don't get invloved in any of it. There only conserned that im paying alot for everything etc. When I first got Gypsys injections done, her owners couldnt remember when she last had them done, and what vet they used?

So when I rung my vet that we used luckily she was found under them. I asked them when her injections are due and it turned out that they were 3years out of date. So ive had to pay for them all the be re done.

All her sweet itch lotions and potions ;) haha I pay for etc.

It just anoys me when I do my best for Gypsy, and its like it all gets frown in my face and makes me feel like a terrible horse women lol.

xx
 
As far as I'm concerned and from my experience a full loan horse is one you are solely responsible for financially. The only benefit is that you don't have the initial outlay. Part loan is a completely different story.
Unfortunately, if our little pony was taken back he would do so with far more than he came with. He came with a bit but to be honest it all had to be replaced as his rugs leaked etc.
If you are in it for the long haul I would make an offer for her :)
 
Pony is on loan went with rugs etc so would expect them to buy new ones for her if wrecked/worn out BUT would not expect new rugs to be given to me on return but they have had her for 3 yrs now so wouldn't expect the rugs given to be in like new condition.If they only had a couple of months would expect a rug returned.If I bought the rugs I would expect them returned to me when loan finished.Saddles/leatherwork different ballgame I would expect it repaired/replaced
This is because this is what I do whenever we had anything on loan.
 
I would expect to pay all costs for a horse on loan. Any equipment included, although i would keep it if the horse was ever returned. Loaning is no different to owning, just without the initial purchase price. Any potential difficulties and the standards expected from each party should be set out in a contract so both parties know where they stand. It is when surprises happen that people fall out.
 
I've had a few horses on loan, my current horse is on full loan. I always pay for everything, insurance, vets, everything as I have full use of the horse. I also use all my own equipment on my loan horse. Its always been like that with the horses i've had on loan although some did come with all their tack ect which went back when the horse went back :)

I ditto what others have said about asking your mum to speak to Gypsys owner about the teenagers coming and messing about.
 
When I had a horse on loan, I paid for everything including insurance and vets bills etc, but in return I could get on with it how I wanted to, so the owner didn't come up and ride or anything. To be honest, I think it's a bit cheeky for them to expect to come and ride the horse when they don't pay anything. Maybe you could ask them to chip in for shoes if they insist on riding her, or something like that. Or, as has already been said, say the field owner doesn't want them riding in the field any more, and they can only hack out/ not ride at all. If they can only hack, they may not bring all their friends as it's harder to 'have a go' when you have to walk along with the horse for miles.
It's a bit of a tricky one really.
 
This is a difficult one. It feels as if you need to sit down with the owner and thrash through a new loan agreement really. I think the BHS has one on their site? You could start with that, and if you both need to change anything, get it in writing so you both know where you stand. Its a difficult one with the owner coming with their crowd of people and upsetting all the other horses; you could put something on the loan agreement perhaps to the effect that only the owner and one other person to visit at any one time because of security, contagious disease precautions etc - word it how you like but you're making the point nonetheless. I don't think its fair that the other horses are upset; if you have to deal with stressed horses then I think its fair to issue some groundrules.

You are in a very difficult situation and I don't envy you; but its so easy to get into a situation where you feel threatened and under pressure. Its perfectly natural for an owner to be precious over "their" horse and as an owner myself I probably don't think anyone else is capable of looking after my precious boy! So I think you should stop beating yourself up - someone has suggested getting a weigh-tape so you can keep a written record of what the horse weighs and I think this is a brilliant idea. Also you could keep a record of what she/he eats and how much, how the droppings are looking etc., also how much you spend on sundries such as wormers, supplements etc, so you can show the owner that you are indeed taking the very best of care.

Also, in your loan agreement, you need to get it established what the period of the loan is; i.e. how much notice is given between both parties if the agreement is to end; and also perhaps how many times a week the owner can visit and/or ride. A sticky one, definately, but if you are taking sole charge of the horse and it is your responsibility on a day to day basis I do think you need to tie up some of the loose ends. You are just 18; this is not easy and it may be you need a third party, as it were, to be the sounding board, or whatever.

Hope all goes well.
 
Why don't you write down a few things which you would like included in the loan agreement and suggest they get added to the new one before you will sign it.
Good luck with them on sunday x
 
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