Full loan issues...

[ChestnutMonty]

Hi all, not posted for quite a long time! But need your thoughts!

I have 17yo tbx gelding that i've had since 5yo and evented, i retired him a few years ago as he had on/off tendon problems his whole career and decided to give him an easy life. I put him out of full loan 13months ago and everything was great at the start. The lady doesnt work and just wanted to hack and only keeps him round the corner from me. He seems really happy and has been an angel to hack.
However loaner has been having medical issues since September and has not been able to ride. Since then we decided to take his back shoes off as he kept losing them and farrier was struggling for enough hoof to shoe. I remember mentioning at the time that we can take back shoes off (I had them off before when i turned him away for a few months after 2nd time tendon went when i retired him from competing) but never front ones because of tendon problems he has - both front deep digital flexor tendons.
So then a month ago i get a text msg out of the blue saying that husbands business is struggling and canot afford him anymore so thinks she may have to give him up. I try and make 3 time t go and see her to discuss, but then get a msg saying shes spoke to husand and he ays they can afford to keep him. so i still try and make another time to see her and get excuses. So today i decide to pop and see him - i drive past and see him every week or so, b ut today i went into the field and he has no shoes on, i'm not happy about this... not sure how to approach it, have tried to call my farrier who she uses to see if it was on his advice or whther maybe she has got her old farrier out to do it.

my mind then starts dwelling and tonight i decide at 6pm to go and check him as i have a feeling that he may be living out... low and behold he is still out and stable is dirty and looks like its been like that for days. think i will pop back later to make sure he is still out. Now he does have a shelter and hay, but its -4 overnight atm and i have it in his contract that he is to be stabled october to march.

What do i do? I dont trust her now and am worried about him, but at the same time he seems pretty happy.... :S

So sorry this ended up as an essay!! and thank you for replying in advance?!

 

[PorkChop]

Oh no I think the only thing you can do is call time on the loan agreement and bring him back home tbh.

She has obviously looked after him really well up until recently, and I suspect it is circumstances at home that have brought on the change in his care - no excuse I know.

However, I would get my farrier out sharpish to put his front shoes back on.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I wouldn't be happy about her going against the specifics of the contract without discussion but actually I can't see what the problem is. If he's rugged and has a shelter and company he'll be absolutely fine outside, as for the front shoes, I'm not sure how they would help his tendons, although can imagine that he might get sore feet. Did he appear to be sound?
Supposing tht he is sound and happy, I think you will have to decide how important it is to you that she follows the contract closely when deciding whether to take him back.

 

[Adopter]

What a difficult situation for you to be in, but the reason I alway loaned outgrown ponies and never sold any was so I could get them back if they were not kept as I had asked.

It is your horse, you have a contract that says how he is to be kept, it has been broken,dirty stable and front shoes would alarm me, all signs that money is tight, is he really getting the food he needs etc.

In the position you find yourself, I would bring the horse home and go from there.

 

[kirstyl]

Ooh - difficult position. But if your horse seems happy and is in good condition, I wouldn't go rushing in to complain. You definitely need to speak to her and discuss his feet and stable arrangements in a calm situation. Good luck!

 

[Polos Mum]

I can see this completely from both persepctives on the one hand your horse your rules. If you want him to have shoes in front and stabled at night in winter (and that is in your contract with her) then you have a right to be unhappy and go and see her asap to discuss.

If however he is comfortable without fronts and seems to be well living out (ie when you see him up close his weight is good, coat shiny etc.) then your discussion may well be to make it clear that you're not happy and anything else needs to be agreed in advance.

If he's not well in these new arrangements or you have other concerns your alternative is to make it clear she's breached her contract and hence you're coming to collect him. If you think you can reloan him or take care of him yourself this is an option but if this is difficult for you think carefully before making a massive fuss.

 

[crabbymare]

Difficult one as he sounds like he is being looked after and is probably warmer being out with shelter and the ability to move around than in and standing still even though you specified he should be stabled. personallty I would have a chat about the lack of front shoes and have a look at his feet as sometimes going without shoes can be a positive for tendon issues and I am not one of the people who say barefoot for all problems s above see how he is in himself and if he looks well I would leave things as they are and just keep a bit more of an eye on him than you already are

 

[ChestnutMonty]

Thank you for your helpful replies.

I think i will pop back in a bit and have a better look at him and have a look at his weight/condition under his rug. I also think i need to be sure that he is definitely living out before i complain, which i can confirm when i pop back in a bit.

I think maybe we could correct these things but my main concern is i now no longer trust her. she has deliberately not contacted me and taken his shoes off and turned him out when she knows that it is in her contract or that i would not be happy, it is unfortunate the reason why i think she is doing this becuase of financial reasons but his wellbeing has to be paramount and i'm concerned this is no longer the case.

thanks for your help

 

[Gingerwitch]

I too would be going back at 8pm and I would also go back at half 10 and again at 6 in the morning.... I would take a photo on each occassion and then text her in the morn.... about 6.05 am with a ....

Gosh you must be keeping weird hours.. x was still out at 10.30pm and out again by 6 this morn. Seeing your up and I am at the yard I would like to have a chat about a few other things too x x

 

[putasocinit]

And it will continue to be the case as long as there are financial issues....

 

[SusieT]

Why would you have an issue with him living out with a shelter and hay? Particularly if he has lameness issues-slow movement will help.
As for shoes etc.-just go a collect him? She has told you she can no longer keep him.

 

[DragonSlayer]

Why would you have an issue with him living out with a shelter and hay? Particularly if he has lameness issues-slow movement will help.
As for shoes etc.-just go a collect him? She has told you she can no longer keep him.

...and then the loaner sent a message again to say they COULD afford him, hence the issue of what would be the right thing to do.

 

[Theocat]

Quite apart from the current worry / trust issue, can you see this being resolved so you'll be happy for her to keep the horse?

If not, give a month's notice (or whatever your terms are), end it on good terms and bring him home.

It's irrelevant whether he's coping fine living out and without shoes - the point is she's gone against your express wishes without asking.

 

[rowan666]

Surely as long as the horse is sound, well fed, happy and healthy thats all that matters. You are in a very fortunate possition having him just around the corner from you so realisticaly you could easily keep extra close eye on things rather than put him thru the stress of being moved if is health and welfare are currently provided for

 

[Booboos]

I would also be unhappy that she had changed things I had asked her to do, regardless or not of whether the horse was OK with the changes. You asked her to shoe in front and stable in winter, if she wanted to change these things she should have discussed them with you first.

I would have an honest talk with her and see how you feel about it afterwards.

 

[ihatework]

The thing here is the broken trust.
Firstly I think you need to ascertain how we'll be is doing living out, and how he is coping unshod in front. Believe it or not this might actually be the best management for him!! (Not that it takes away from the fact that they have gone against your wishes)

First up try impartially assess the condition and soundness of your horse. Thereafter either take him home or have a discussion with loaner about discussing change of his care with you before doing it!

 

[mandwhy]

I think you just need to have a chat with her and say what you have seen, that he was out at that time (you need to check late though like 11 and every night until you actually see her) ask if he is living out and ask why he hasn't got front shoes on, and why she didn't tell you about either of these things.

To be honest I agree that no shoes and living out could well be the best management for him but that's loaning for you, you always have to have the owners agreement.

It doesn't sound like she is neglecting him or anything so far, but maybe she is not being realistic about being able to afford him now, or maybe they need a period of adjustment money wise which you can either try to accommodate or say sorry, the horse has to come back.