Fully clipped horse still too hot

[lucymay9701]

I just wondered if anybody had a fully clipped horse that was unrugged sometimes at the moment? I have a 26 year old retired thoroughbred mare. We have always been careful not to over rug her and she was unrugged for alot of her life (she has mainly been a companion horse though so not clipped) as she has always been on the hot side. She has recently had a full clip as she was suffering from itching and the vet said this may help. Her itching is now improving but we are finding she is still too hot. She went into medium weight rugs at first after the clip but was far too hot so changed into lightweight. She has been wearing a lightweight outdoor rug (with no filling or neck cover) last week and was about right. At night she is just in a 50g stable rug (with no neck cover) which seemed about right until last night when she seemed boiling even in that. We were tempted to take it off but didn't feel 'right' about doing that when she is fully clipped in case it went cooler in the night. I just wondered if anybody else takes them off clipped horses overnight at the moment? It was quite mild last night (well where we live anyway!) but I started to wonder if there maybe any health problems that can cause them to be too hot. So I was just wondering what other people were finding with their horses and if anyone else had a fully clipped horse that was too hot in lightweight rugs at the moment? Maybe she could just do with something lighter still at night as her day rug has no filling and the night one 50g. Just interested to compare her with other horses and what other people are doing!
Thanks very much.

 

[L&M]

How about keeping the lightweight/no fill rug on 24/7? Saves the hassle of changing rugs and any stains will wash off in the rain when turned out!

It is still very mild considering the time of year.

 

[whisp&willow]

if she's too hot then leave her stable rug off. Better to be a bit chilly than too hot. As long as she has hay to much then she'll keep herself warm even if it gets a bit cooler in the night.

 

[Gloi]

Is she sweating? Has she been tested for Cushings recently?

 

[lucymay9701]

Thanks for the replies, yes we could try that with the no fill rug. She has plenty of horsehage overnight, I was just worried that with no fur on her she wouldn't be able to warm up if she got cooler in the night - I wasn't sure if both the fur and horsehage were needed to warm her up! Just interested to know if she's unusual or if others are finding the same!

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

You could sacrifice a sweat rug, so she at least has some covering.

 

[Clodagh]

I agree with MrsD, a LW wickaway type rug would be my choice. We have all kicked the duvet off in the night and woken up freezing an hour later! How are you checking her temperature? Feel her ears. It is at 4 in the morning you need to know really, which is not very convenient. Cushings test might be worth it.

 

[lucymay9701]

She isn't sweating, she was just really hot to the touch last night. She did have a borderline cushings test in the past although the lady who clipped her said she didn't think her coat was like a cushings horse. She has no other symptoms of cushings at the moment (although we did wonder if there could be a link with the itching - but touch wood that has really settled down at the moment). Can cushings cause them to be too hot? That did cross my mind but I just wondered if she is abnormally hot or if other people are finding the same? She will be retested - I just wondered last time if the stress of the itching could have increased her ACTH (as it was only slightly raised) or the other way round. So now her itching is settling, hopefully we will get an accurate test result. She doesn't like the vet and gets stressed with that aswell so I'm always worrying the result isn't accurate, especially as only slightly raised.

 

[lucymay9701]

Interesting about the cushings coming up again - will get that rechecked then sooner rather than later. We've been checking where her front legs meet the chest in the 'armpit' but also just generally. Unfortunately she doesn't like her ears touching! Will look for some type of sweat rug aswell, was thinking about a fleece but thought it may make her itchy.

 

[ihatework]

I'm sorry but I wouldn't be leaving a fully clipped horse unrugged.
If she is genuinely unable to regulate her body temperature then I would be asking the vets to be doing further testing to find out why

 

[lucymay9701]

Thanks, yes that's what I was wondering - could it be a health problem? Do you know if there is anything else other than cushing's that can cause a horse to be too hot? Is it worth testing for other things or is cushings the main cause?

Edited to add - she has recently had all the general blood tests because of the itching plus the cushings one that was only slightly raised and the vet recommended a recheck of that. So just wondered what else there would be that could be checked?

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I would ask your vet.

 

[lucymay9701]

I think the vet will say to repeat the cushing's test first and take it from there which will probably be the best idea. She had a borderline cushings test last year and then went on chastetree berry and her level was back to normal (12) earlier in the year but then slightly raised again this time (although taken in the autumn when I read that even non cushings horses can have slightly elevated levels plus she was stressed from the itching at the time).

Anyway was just wondering out of interest really if anybody had come across any other causes of horses being very hot or is cushings the only one?

 

[Clodagh]

Not a horse but I have thyroid trouble and get awfully hot when it is going wrong. That is all connected to the pituitory (spelling, sorry) gland so it could be connected.

 

[lucymay9701]

Thanks for your reply, sounds like it could be hormone related then - its so difficult because of her cushings results only being borderline. Obviously I don't want her to have cushings but it would be easier if the results were more clear cut and then I would know for sure. I guess a trial of prascend may be an option but once they start on that I seem to remember reading they can't come off it - although don't know if that is right. Also I've heard it can be very difficult to get fussy horses (which mine is!) to take it and she has no other symptoms at the moment which makes it more difficult to know if its the right thing. If the rug is taken off she feels fine but it just doesn't seem 'right' leaving it off overnight. Will see what my vet says anyway about other hormone tests aswell.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

I'm sorry op but I don't think this sounds normal. If be calling vet for advice and checking her temp. There may be an underlying cause.ie colic or chronic conditions....ps feeling ears as a means of checking temperature is absolute nonsense (& quite worrying!) in cold weather often our extremities will be cold. Ie having cold hands/feet in humans. However this does not tell us about core body temp.

 

[Spottyappy]

We have a horse like this, he just seems to maintain his own body temperature well,blood tests always been fine.
He will tear a rug off if too hot, even when clipped.
Not sure what the weather is like where you are, OP, but it is incredibly mild for the time of year where I am. I even harrowed one of my fields last weekend, and the grass has already started to grow since doing it. So, the horse may simply be compensating for what has so far been a very mild winter,too.

 

[lucymay9701]

Thanks for your reply. Will be checking out the cushings thing etc and having a word with the vet. But other than feeling warmer than I would expect she's quite happy. Eating normally (she always goes off her food if feeling ill) and generally just her usual happy self. No signs of colic. Unfortunately there is no way of checking her temperature - wouldn't let us or the vet near her with a thermometer!! It is really mild where we are though but it has been interesting for me that the cushings has kept coming up (as I didn't realise that could be a cause and her ACTH levels are something we are monitoring). Its interesting 'spottyappy' that your grass is growing though and that you also have a hot horse! Thanks again everyone for the replies!

 

[Clodagh]

I'm sorry op but I don't think this sounds normal. If be calling vet for advice and checking her temp. There may be an underlying cause.ie colic or chronic conditions....ps feeling ears as a means of checking temperature is absolute nonsense (& quite worrying!) in cold weather often our extremities will be cold. Ie having cold hands/feet in humans. However this does not tell us about core body temp.

That is interesting. Although I stick my hand under my horses rugs I also feel his ears, especially after a hard day when he is tired. I didn't know it was wrong.

 

[chocolategirl]

I'm sorry op but I don't think this sounds normal. If be calling vet for advice and checking her temp. There may be an underlying cause.ie colic or chronic conditions....ps feeling ears as a means of checking temperature is absolute nonsense (& quite worrying!) in cold weather often our extremities will be cold. Ie having cold hands/feet in humans. However this does not tell us about core body temp.

And this is why so many horses end up over rugged!! When you touch your horses coat and it feels cold, this is because it's doing the job it's designed to do...........keep the heat and warmth in!! On our yard so many people are heard saying oooh he feels so cold I've had to put another rug on him. I just groan with frustration but don't see the point in saying anything as people only believe want they want to believe. The horses skin and coat are an amazing feat of engineering and when left to do their job perform exceptionally well for the wearer. That said, when a horse is clipped then clearly a rug is needed to make up in some way for what you have taken away,but nothing can ever do the job their original coat can. Sorry to digress from original post and I would be worried that your horse is too hot after being fully clipped and will be interested to see if further tests show anything up.

 

[TarrSteps]

Is the only sign that she is 'too warm' that she's warm to the touch? Is she sweating? Itching/coming out in a rash? Losing weight? Has she always been a horse that stays comfortable with minimal rugging? What sort of winter coat has she grown in the past?

I agree that leaving a clipped horse unrugged isn't a good idea but there are horses that are just 'warm' and it's not necessarily a crisis. Given her age and your concern get it checked. (And have a chat with the horse about taking its temperature - not really acceptable!) But judging only by feel isn't really a reliable indicator in the absence of other symptoms.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Ps agree that it's unacceptable for the vet not to take the horses temp. I'd be getting in touch with another vet. Can she not be sedated for this procedure?

 

[JLD]

I had exactly these issue with my old boy. he was a very 'hot' horse. he was fully clipped and never worse anything more than a medium weight TO usually a lightweight, in the stable he wore a thermatex type rug and was really good in this anything else made him too hot but he could regulate very well in that

 

[lucymay9701]

Yes the only sign is she felt too warm to the touch. She was suffering from itching before the clip (which was the reason for the clip as she is retired now). This has really improved her itching maybe suggesting she was too hot with her natural coat. She has always been a hot horse though so maybe it is the mild weather. She wasn't rugged much in the past when she had her coat.

No it isn't possible to take her temperature, shes a gorgeous usually sweet natured horse who I've owned for over 20 years but trying to do anything around that end (even sedated!) is virtually impossible. We always know there are limitations with what it is possible to do with her. She's fine having her tail washed and things but trying to put a thermometer in or do a rectal examination is too dangerous. (the only time she has ever tolerated it was when she had a colic operation and had too much pain to put up a fight.) Even sedated in a stock shes a danger to herself and vets have had to give up through fear of her seriously injuring herself. Shes my once in a lifetime horse though and I love her to bits!

Thank you JLD for the tip on the thermatax rug!

 

[JLD]

FWIW my boy also itched a lot and got all bumpy, vet could never find anything, he was clipped for the same reason. we found Skratch ? global herbs to be really effective he only needed a tiny amount after the initial course but stopping it made him itchy again. we had a nightmare stopping other people rugging him up too much and ended up having to take all his rugs home except the one he wore. and yes he was also clipped out and naked if in during the day for any reason and I got grief for it !

 

[Templebar]

If you have had all the vet checks, then is there anyway she can be turned out at night (assuming its only when she is in that she gets hot). Is there anyway she could be stressing when in the stable causing her to get hot.

Also as for taking the temp i would be interested to know if you could use her mouth instead (ie just inset in through the lip against the gum) we do this with ourselves i see no reason why it wouldn't work with a horse and she may be more agreeable to it.

Also another thought on the itching, could it be an allergy? As others have said it is unusual for a horse to be that hot with a full clip and not be much better with the itching. I would be thinking of going down the allergy route probably something feed related or could it be to the rugs themselves did she have them on before it started?

 

[lucymay9701]

Thanks JLD - that's really interesting. My mare has also had loads of tests for her itching but with no cause found but since the clip is much better. (shes also on a new more 'natural' diet which I hope is now helping but thanks for the supplement tip aswell) Just out of interest please can you tell me what thermatex rug you use - I looked at the website but there are so many different types! When my mare has been on livery yards when she was unclipped I was always made to feel guilty for having her without rugs so I know the feeling! But she was absolutely fine and happier for it I think anyway. Always looked well and was never cold. Only more recently has she become miserable in the rain and we have had trouble finding a waterproof rug that she is not too hot in. I'm thinking of getting her one of those cool heat blankets next year (although their purpose wouldn't be for clipped horses I don't think) but I'm not sure what she'll make of the rubber things on the inside of them!

Thanks templebar for the thermometer tip - not sure what she'd would make of it! She's such a suspicious horse lol She likes her stable though and is quite chilled to be in. (is out all day though) She gets a bit fed up left out at night now even in the summer. All her allergy tests came back normal but she is alot better with the itching now since the clip and we have also completely changed her diet which I am hoping is now helping her. It took a bit for her to get used to it but shes eating it much better now - touch wood! The itching started in the summer though before the rugs but I just wonder if the 50g is too warm for her as her outdoor has no fill and will look into those thermatex rugs. Thanks again!

 

[Templebar]

Just make sure to use a strong thermometer, also perhaps check with your vet how accurate this will be? It was only a thought never had to try it myself.

 

[JLD]

hi - I had a mark todd coolex one and a weatherbeeta thermocell, I also got a buccas sunshower for turnout which is silvery and relects heat and designed to be used in rainy but warmer temperatures, this was good too especally on days when it raisn but the sun comes out

 

[lucymay9701]

Thanks both, yes I'd check with the vet about the thermometer thing if she needed to take it. Shes the type of horse that wouldn't eat if she is feeling off colour though so I don't think she has a temperature at the moment as she's really well otherwise and has more energy on her new diet aswell!
Thanks for the rug tips - I've also got a bucas sunshower rug but just find it leaks when wet so you must have had more luck than me! Will have a look at the other 2 though