FUMING!!! Whyare Local Shows such a PAIN!!!

S

scotsmare

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Ok, this may turn out to be just a rant on my part but how many other people has this happened to??

This morning I took my daughter to a local show, unaffiliated showing, meant to be for fun. well, for someone anyway!

We took our part bred welsh pony, we had entered the best turned out, show hunter pony and native/part bred pony. When we got there, the first thing we were told was that they had kicked us out of the natives class - apparently someone had decided it was one or the other without putting it on the schedule or having the decency to tell us in the first place.

It got worse..... Best turned out under 14.2hh turned out to have 25 entries!! On the schedule it said entries would be split, steward seemed to think they were going to split it as there was such a mix of adults with ponies and the kids. They didn't. It took an entire HOUR to judge this class and ponies and kids alike were getting very p****d off! End result was 6 of the oddest contenders for the class being placed (kids with beautifully turned out ponies & correct dress overlooked for really scruffy looking things with kids who weren't turned out properly).

Now, please don't think I'm madly jealous they were placed - I'm really not - but the judge should have used her discretion and split the class into seniors and juniors to allow a fairer competition. Not only did she overlook the correctly turned out kids, but those who had help plaiting were instantly discounted (I know, because I overheard her!)

This kind of behaviour from judges is pretty unacceptable. Yes, local showing is supposed to be fun, but it should be fair and judging should be based along the lines of affiliated showing and not just on who she thinks looks cutest!

Sorry for ranting, but am seriously hacked off!!
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Your experience is nothing new to me
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In my time, I have sat and roasted in my showing garb in classes that have taken 3 hours to judge. I've also had countless experiences such as yours whereby the judging has been completely unjust and, quite frankly, ludicrous. I entered Ellie in a Best Condition class last year at a local show - she looked amazing, even if I am biased, but we didnt get placed. I dont have a problem with that, but the winner had broken knees and was dreadfully overweight....and *ahem* was the judge's next door neighbour, and the pony who came second had the most awful rasping cough
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Such is life in the show ring!
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I know, I show at county level all the time - today was supposed to be a bit of fun for my daugher while she is 'between ponies'. Just maddening.

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I think local level stuff is so much worse than county. You aren't judged on your merits at all, and quite often the judge is some 'au naturale' fanatic drafted in at the last minute....
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I know it is frustrating. From the other side, if you organise shows it can be a devil of a job getting decent judges - and those who claim to have experience and some kind of qualification often don't. Equally, at out local shows we were always on a mission to ensure that as far as possible everybody left with a rosette, so sometimes odd ones were moved up if they had only entered one class and really weren't suitable for any other classes. In the case of yours, for example, I might take a view that a rosette was a raging certainty in a later class and reward scruffies that had really tried in the BTO.

Fair? No, probably not - but you can't please all the people all the time.

How did the show hunter pony class go?
 
Show hunter class was just as bad TBH, again it took over an hour with 10 ponies entered. This time, adults were all to the fore and the kids were trailing in the bottom. We weren't the only ones fuming and there were several complaints prior to us leaving.
 
How frustrating!

TBH I have taken a break from organising shows for a couple of years - each year it seemed to fall to a committee of 2 and we both got burnt out by it - Hook Norton Show used to be a big local show too maybe next year
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I'm sure you will find another local show that will be run better, and every show is ring experience!
 
This is why I went affiliated and dont bother with local shows, its far too much hassle and I cant stand the over subsription and waiting about for hours.

The only local show I attend now is my own riding club....Wrotham and District a little plug as they are usually well organised. Its such a shame that its happend.
 
I entered a best turned out competition when i was a child. All the 'posh ponies' with 'correctly turned out children' where obviously the mother/groom had more input than the child in getting everything ready and had gone to 'pot hunt' were'nt placed at all! The kids who were placed were those with ordinary ponies they had got ready themselves (and you could tell).

I came third on my fat grey welsh pony. She lived out and despite slaving the whole day before we pob still looked a mess, granted she was half way clean but her plaits were like golf balls and my second hand hacking jacket had seen better days
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The 'posh mothers with their BSPS ponies' were furious but I had a great day and thats what local showing is about, giving the ordinary kids on their hairy ponies a chance.
 
Please don't think that I was pot hunting it wasn't the cause of my irritation - it was more the disparity of the judging (by the same woman), the poor organisation and the nonsense decision by the judge not to split the class. I agree that if your pony is clean and 'best turned out' then you should be in with a shout and I am totally aware that you can't please everyone!
 
I'm sorry you've had such a bad day, I've been to loads of local shows and you just have to take the good with the bad.

On another note though, and I might be shot down in flames for this- In a local show I think the children who have done all the work themselves should be placed higher than the children who have simply turned up in their sparkling, expensive showing clothes and sat on a pony who has been turned out quite professionally from a parent.

I'm sorry if I sound cynical but I work at a riding school in an area of high unemployment. I've occasionally taken them to local shows and the children have always turned the ponies out themselves. Many of the children didn't have the 'correct' showing clothes but were clean and well turned out. I'm pleased to say some of them managed to leave with a few rosettes for whp and riding club pony etc (not tack and turn out) The judges in these classes didn't put them down the line because they didn't have the correct jacket on but were judged on the merits of their riding. Some of these children have only been to one or two shows in their lives and getting a single rosette from a 'proper' show (not an in house one) meant the world to them. I think local shows should be about encouraging everyone to participate and to have fun.

Anyway, sorry for the rant but I think it's important to encourage children to turn out their own ponies and some children may not be turned out correctly themselves because their parents can't afford it.
 
Quote from firewell - "The 'posh mothers with their BSPS ponies' were furious but I had a great day and thats what local showing is about, giving the ordinary kids on their hairy ponies a chance."

I thoroughly agree.

When I judge local showing BTO I am inclined to put the combination up who have obviously done the ponies themselves, rather than the 'county'standard exhibitors. Yes, the look on the latters faces is quite funny, but I also see these better turned out ponies in a different light when they enter a proper showing class and often place them quite high if they have given a good show etc. which sometimes leaves their riders/mums rather confused!

The problem with 'very local' shows is that the organisers seem to leave it far too late to get decent Judges. This month I have had no fewer than five requests to Judge at June shows. Sorry, if you had only asked back in January, February, I might have been able to but not with only a few week's notice. They then have to scour around for anyone who might be free on that day, have ridden in the past and/or has a grand-child who hunts. I have seen this happen so many times and I do feel so sorry for those who have gone to the trouble of getting their ponies to look their best and paid good money into the bargain.

Don't give up - write a nice letter to the organiser and suggest very politely that he/she books some decent judges for next year, pointing out that it would most likely improve the all-round feel-good factor by the end of the day.

Saying that, I have been asked to Judge at a Pony Club Show next week. They only decided to run one about 6 weeks ago, said they had got all their Judges, etc., then I got a call a fortnight ago, asking if I could Judge for them. It took 3 phone calls this morning to find out what time it starts. Eventually someone e-mailed me a schedule - OMG - I'm only down to do the first two classes, neither of which, LR & FR have a height limit, age limit or any other description. Tis going to be fun. I hope they have loads of specials.

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I am a breed judge. I normaly judge horses about as far removed from kiddies ponies as you can get. However, local show organisers must think I know a thing or two about kiddies ponies because I am often asked to judge tack & turnout, LR etc, etc at local shows. The proper pony judges are not interested in doing it... so I do it for fun. It is a nice day out and you get lunch!

When I judge the ponies, I look for the kids who have done most of it themselvs. I look for a well kept animal in good condition. The overall impression should be workmanlike, neat and clean, not vulgar. Money does not come in to it. How can you tell how well the tack is looked after if it is brand new and only used for the show? So long as the tack is well cared, clean and and fits correctly all is good. The saddle could be worth £50 0r 5k, both do the same job. It is also amazing how many people show in saddles so badly fitting that they would cripple the pony if they were used every day.

You should see some of the looks of horror when I get out a white hanky and wipe it over the ponies coat to see how clean the pony is. It is amazing how many are coverd in brown or black gunk which IMHO is not a clean pony. Ditto the tack!

I have a chat to the kids and it is blooming obvious which ones actualy look after the ponies on a daily basis and prepare the ponies for the show. Some have nothing to do with it till they are dressed up and plonked on its back as they enter the ring.

Rosettes go to those who have made the best of what they have. You could have a turnout worth thousands... but you might not have made the best of it! If it was a question of who has the most money I would simply invite the parents to show me their bank statements and give the first prize to the one with the most money. That would save everyone a load of time and effort.

Local showing IMHO should be all about fun and encouraging high standards in everyday horsemanship.

Now you know what I look for... so if you turn up to a show and there is an old bag in a tweed suit holding a white silk hanky you will know what you are in for!
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I have to agree, money does not make a winner. If I put my horse in a local show she would not get placed as there are other favoured people who always win. It is a total shame for genuine young or old riders who are doing it for fun and not treating it as a HOYS quaifier. I think you have every right to a rant!
 
Tack and turn out is not an affiliated class, so there are no hard and fast rules. Toby has done the T&T class at the first show he did on his new pony (and the second show Toby had done in his entire career). Yes, he did "help" me bath the pony and clean tack, but the majority was done by me. The pony is an M&M and I was dreading the judge saying that I should have plaited the pony - as it happened she knew her M&Ms and judged the class well. She inspected the fitting of the tack (including the bit) as well as the cleanliness which is something often ignored in the T&T classes.

I don't think it is fair that children who have had their mothers plait their ponies are put down the line for this. Firstly, how on earth do you know how much effort the child has put in. It may be that the scruffy ones simply have mothers that don't try very hard! If the class says "prepare the pony yourself" then fair enough. Does anyone bother quesionning adults who have paid someone at their yard to plait their horse for them? Of course not!!!

T&T is a useful class to get children and ponies used to being on a show ground without having to go out of walk - I don't think it should be considered as a career in showing though - so why not just let the cleanest and neatest one win the class? I bet people start panicking when Yorkshirelass gets out her white hanky though!
 
Used to do lots of turn out with my old jumping mare who had to stop jumping. We probably looked professional but bridle was about 20 years old, lots of second hand stuff, but polished endlessly. I also always used tobe at the shows on my own - try keeping yourself and horse immaculate with no help. Far harder work than the turn out I do now I show RIHS/HOYS level! Used to like the judges who checked everything including inside of gloves and the underside of the stirrup treads and boots. I also judge locally too and check those sort of things, whether tack is fitted properly etc. I think local shows should have classes for say those who have hacked or not won that particular class as otherwise everyone is in together which makes it hard on competitors and judges alike.
 
Totally agree with you fmm , Tiarnan helps bath and clean tack , No one can know for sure how much the child has done or hasnt done .

We where at a local show today and it was brilliant especially as it was for charity (special olympics) , its always the same judge and hes actually very good, he has judged at balmoral and the like so he knows his stuff . You do then get the other end of the scale when parents that havent put alot of work or kids for that matter into their ponies and then expect to get placed higher than those that have . It does work both ways .

I work very hard to keep tommy in shape and well tiarnan knows he has to help out too so therefor does his fair share .
 
It must be a nightmare to judge! How can a stable kept show pony with tack kept for shows compete against the grass kept pony who's been hacked over! I know quite a few kids who have ponies on loan and when they go to shows they do everything themselves (and spend hours and hours at it) as they have non horsey parents.
I have my opinions but at the end of the day I wouldn't like to be a judge and I admire those who give up their time to do an incredibly difficult job for very little thanks.
 
I think it's highly unfair when people who are obviously affiliated take their horses / ponies into local (non affiliated) shows. I understand sometimes the pony needs an outing before they go to a big show, and locals are idea 'warm ups' but the owner should declare the pony is affiliated and therefore only enter the ring as a non competitor.

My local show, South Kilworth Riding Club (another plug) is one of those shows that gives the kids a chance. Everyone leaves with a rosette and a well done. The atmosphere is great and people really friendly.
 
Quick Reply

If a pony is doing RIHS and HOYS qualifiers successfully, there is little chance that they will be doing tack and turn out at the weekends - far more likely to be chasing qualifiers around the country. When you have 50 ponies entered into a HOYS M&M lead rein qualifier (and believe me this is not that unusual) they are unlikely to be spending time at their local show "stealing rosettes from more deserving children".

As it happens, the M&M lead rein children are the ones who are most likely to spend most of their younger riding careers not even getting placed due to the quality of competition, and they deal with the fact (at 5 and 6 years old) that if someone has a better pony then it deserves to beat them.
 
Did you approach the Judge and ask him/her why she made the decisions that she made?

Everything is often clearer then.
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I dont do county or affilated, a local lass am I and so is my daughter.

What does rile me is that some kids cant reach their ponies to ruddy plait them let alone keep them still!!, whilst they have may have helped much out daily, shampoo the pony the night before, clean their tack (which is obvious from the gluey texture of their saddle!!) then because they are small and on lead rein its assumed by the judge they have done nothing....!!!!
 
shame you are so far away, you should come to one of our riding club shows!! the last one we held only had one moan all day!
we split classes if the entries get too big, the show you went to sounds like a farce! i would have left the ring if i had to wait an hour!
i have been put down in BTO class below a dirty pony with incorrect tack and no noseband, because i had a hogged cob???!!! i would chalk it up to experience and belive me you will laugh it off later! i have also been told i was "dagerously out of control" by one judge and my pony was laminitic and unsound - it wasn't!! all i did was show a gallop and a reinback!!!!! the next weekend i got a look at the ponies this judge owns at another show, a motheaten crew that look like they need a good brush and a wormer!!!!!
 
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I know, I show at county level all the time - today was supposed to be a bit of fun for my daugher while she is 'between ponies'. Just maddening.

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I think local level stuff is so much worse than county. You aren't judged on your merits at all, and quite often the judge is some 'au naturale' fanatic drafted in at the last minute....
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Hmmmm.............so far this year at County Level I have seen a grossly overweight 2 yr old win a breeding championship, broodmare that didn't trot a single step come second in her well supported class (even the owner said that no way should she have been placed & was quite embarassed!!), & in hand sport horses that couldn't / didn't trot the triangle placed & given high marks for their trot!!

I loath generalisations if this type. You get duff decisions at all levels. Some local judges are excellent, some aren't so good. Show secretaries should check out judges credentials before booking them. Sometimes getting a panel judge is the worst thing they can do.........most local shows want the emphasis on manners, most panel judges will place quality over & above anything else. At a very large county show during a major championship the (very beauiful) eventual winner struck off on the wrong leg when asked to change the rein during its individual show. The top level judge turned his back immediately & indicated the next horse to come forward & start it's show. In the meantime the rider of the horse that had gone wrong was still going - unaware that she was being ignored by the judge. Aha we all thought - he saw it go off on the wrong leg & he's discounted it. WRONG!!! The judge just decided that his best course of action was 'not to see' the error. I've seen on many occassions well mannered, true to type cobs that lack quality placed below 'quality' cobs that have bucked, napped, & in one instance ran off with the judge & wouldn't pull up after the gallop!!! It does say in the rule book that cobs should be well mannered. Wish the cob panel judges would actually read it..............!!

I judge at local shows. I have to turn down loads more invitations than I can actually accept, so I guess I must be doing something right. When I do have a professionally produced pony in the ring I judge what I see. Thats what I'm there for. It's not my place or my job to decided whether or not morally it should be there. If the pony complies with whats required of entrants to that class & it's the best in the ring then if I'm judging it will win. If it's not the best (& if it's a Combination class it might not be) then it won't.
 
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I know it is frustrating. From the other side, if you organise shows it can be a devil of a job getting decent judges - and those who claim to have experience and some kind of qualification often don't. Equally, at out local shows we were always on a mission to ensure that as far as possible everybody left with a rosette, so sometimes odd ones were moved up if they had only entered one class and really weren't suitable for any other classes. In the case of yours, for example, I might take a view that a rosette was a raging certainty in a later class and reward scruffies that had really tried in the BTO.

Fair? No, probably not - but you can't please all the people all the time.



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i have to say i have a bit of an issue with this attitude.....how are the "scruffies" supposed to learn and improve if they are rewarded for being scuffy???
as a riding club we get around this by having a free class for those who haven't won a rosette, in this class we try to give advice and reward each entrant with a rosette and some sweets!!
 
I have to say, I have been forced in the past, against my will, to judge at local riding club shows - Hell on earth.
If there are 20 people there, at the end one likes you, a couple more think you are ok, and the rest hate you with a vengeance and are sure you are biased for another rider/prejudiced against them.
S
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God no, it's not the kids that are the problem. Though I have seen plenty of affiliated LR ponies in LR classes at non -qulaifiers and local shows. THAT I don't mind because it's kids and for most the local show is a good learning platform.

It's the adults who've already got their qualification that go along just for the day out and compete against small kids with bog standard hairy ponies. That, IMO is wrong.
 
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