FUMING!!! Whyare Local Shows such a PAIN!!!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know it is frustrating. From the other side, if you organise shows it can be a devil of a job getting decent judges - and those who claim to have experience and some kind of qualification often don't. Equally, at out local shows we were always on a mission to ensure that as far as possible everybody left with a rosette, so sometimes odd ones were moved up if they had only entered one class and really weren't suitable for any other classes. In the case of yours, for example, I might take a view that a rosette was a raging certainty in a later class and reward scruffies that had really tried in the BTO.

Fair? No, probably not - but you can't please all the people all the time.



[/ QUOTE ]

i have to say i have a bit of an issue with this attitude.....how are the "scruffies" supposed to learn and improve if they are rewarded for being scuffy???
as a riding club we get around this by having a free class for those who haven't won a rosette, in this class we try to give advice and reward each entrant with a rosette and some sweets!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I think by 'scruffies' she means those ponies who havent got fab conformation and are still wearing their winter woolies in June. Let's face it, the BHS manual of horsemanship never advised any native owner to rug their pony to the eyeballs and keep it stabled all winter just to please the judge come spring. So we teach our kids to do what's best for their pony, which is to clip if it's in work, if not, leave well alone and only rug if the pony is cold... therefore mere mortal kids have 'scruffy' ponies. Ponies they've spent the last fortnight trying to get the grease and coat out of, and ponies which are impossible to get a shine on. But these are usually the ponies which are looked after mainly by said child and said child dotes on said pony. So why shouldnt they be rewarded for their hard work and dedication with a rosette? As it stands, half the time it's these ponies which are pulled in last, and IMO that's unfair.
I went to a show and was talking to a kiddie who had a welsh x type pony, about 12hh. It was in it's late twenties, but had manners to die for. It had clearly been in good work, as it had a trace clip still showing. She took it into the 'family pony' class and came last. What came first was a flashy little section B hunter type that had it's full summer coat in April... AND it wouldnt stand still...
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have to say, I have been forced in the past, against my will, to judge at local riding club shows - Hell on earth.
If there are 20 people there, at the end one likes you, a couple more think you are ok, and the rest hate you with a vengeance and are sure you are biased for another rider/prejudiced against them.
S
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

that's why you keep the engine of the car running so at the end of the class you can leap out of the ring and go!"!!
wink.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
How can a stable kept show pony with tack kept for shows compete against the grass kept pony who's been hacked over!

[/ QUOTE ]

very easily actualy, you just need to put in a bit more effort and get up a bit earlier to give them a good groom and wash socks again. I kept one of mine out 24/7 even the night before shows, he very rarely came in because if brought in he stressed himself into a case of colic. I once hacked him to a local show and won 2 classes (one was a t&t), then went champion. Pony cost the grand total of £250 to buy, i did all the work myself and mum followed me in the car to the show and held the pony whilst i touched him up, his saddlery was his everyday stuff because i could not afford 2 sets and it was all 2nd hand, i just did my research before i got mum to buy it, so it was correct for the class and then i looked after it well. I was 12 years old! so yes it is very possible for a grass kept pony to beat a stable kept one, infact i find the ponies go better when they have been out as they are more settled.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How can a stable kept show pony with tack kept for shows compete against the grass kept pony who's been hacked over!

[/ QUOTE ]

very easily actualy, you just need to put in a bit more effort and get up a bit earlier to give them a good groom and wash socks again. I kept one of mine out 24/7 even the night before shows, he very rarely came in because if brought in he stressed himself into a case of colic. I once hacked him to a local show and won 2 classes (one was a t&t), then went champion. Pony cost the grand total of £250 to buy, i did all the work myself and mum followed me in the car to the show and held the pony whilst i touched him up, his saddlery was his everyday stuff because i could not afford 2 sets and it was all 2nd hand, i just did my research before i got mum to buy it, so it was correct for the class and then i looked after it well. I was 12 years old! so yes it is very possible for a grass kept pony to beat a stable kept one, infact i find the ponies go better when they have been out as they are more settled.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you've missed the point.

A stable kept show pony does not have a winter coat as such . A field kept pony does. Therefore one will always look ten times better than the other.
 
don't get me wrong - i will place good manners above perfect conformation at local level anyday, but i like good turnout, sorry. a few years ago the people running our local club ran it to the ground, it was a laughing stock, with no decent judges and dreadful standards, myself and several others got it going again, we are now attracting more and more people, some inevitably of a higher standard, we have seen our local kids go from scruffy, ill thought out turnout, purple fluffy numnahs etc, to looking very professional, simply by watching and taking on board the way the winners were turned out, this to me is an improvement!!
it is not always the county ponies that win either, our locals give them a run for thier money!!
 
[ QUOTE ]


I think by 'scruffies' she means those ponies who havent got fab conformation and are still wearing their winter woolies in June. Let's face it, the BHS manual of horsemanship never advised any native owner to rug their pony to the eyeballs and keep it stabled all winter just to please the judge come spring. So we teach our kids to do what's best for their pony, which is to clip if it's in work, if not, leave well alone and only rug if the pony is cold... therefore mere mortal kids have 'scruffy' ponies. Ponies they've spent the last fortnight trying to get the grease and coat out of, and ponies which are impossible to get a shine on. But these are usually the ponies which are looked after mainly by said child and said child dotes on said pony. So why shouldnt they be rewarded for their hard work and dedication with a rosette? As it stands, half the time it's these ponies which are pulled in last, and IMO that's unfair.


[/ QUOTE ]

i would be very worried if my pony had his winter coat in june, I had my native pony out this winter without rugs for most of it (there was some horrific weather so he had a rug on for a few weeks), he had started loosing his winter coat by early april and had his full summer coat 3 weeks ago.

Who are you to judge how much effort that kid has put into that pony? for all you know that kid could have done all the work, for all you know the pony could have been turned out 24/7. If you looked at my pony at the moment i'm pretty sure you'd think that he was stabled and costted and rugged to the eyeballs but he isnt. there is this lovely thing called a bath to get the grease out of coats and failing that there is always hot clothing (hard work but does the job). with enough elbow grease and good feeding you can get a good shine on almost anything.
 
My pony still has his winter woolies, and many veteran ponies never quite lose their winter coats.

I am not *judging* anyone, just pointing out that a class at a local show isnt meant to make kids feel that their well behaved pony isnt good enough simply because it isnt 'showy' and doesnt have the perfect coat and conformation. It SHOULD be about the effort put in, and therefore about turnout, but it's sad when a kid's put in lots of effort but clearly HAS done all the work themselves (including golf ball plaits and oiled hooves with chalk all over
grin.gif
But at least they tried their hardest) loses out to an adult who has FAR more experience and knowledge, and a far more expensive animal.
 
'I think by 'scruffies' she means those ponies who havent got fab conformation and are still wearing their winter woolies in June. Let's face it, the BHS manual of horsemanship never advised any native owner to rug their pony to the eyeballs and keep it stabled all winter just to please the judge come spring.'

That is exactly what I mean. In a BTO I'm not looking for the perfect horse, the most expensive tack or the smartest jacket. I a looking for those who have made a big effort at making the very best of the horse or pony they have, and if they have clearly made a huge effort they will be rewarded. This is the class, at local level, where many people will have their very first crack at showing, simply because there is no requirement to do an individual show, or canter around in a group - and where encouragement starts.
 
I totally agree Charlie and Mother Hen!

April looks like a bog pony in the winter and an elegant mini horse in the summer.
She has just lost the final part of her winter coat in the last 3 weeks (thank God!). It's an amazing transformation.
The only way she would look great in winter is if I clipped her but I don't ride enough so she just gets her neck done.

I used to do really well in T&T classes when I was little (have lost the knack or the dedication now hehe) but I did absolutely everything myself AND I had a grey - I have a horsey mum but she used to leave me to it lol
laugh.gif

We used to have tack and turnout at every single pony club rally too, I was a geek so I loved all the getting ready.

I can't believe some parents do it for the kids. Obviously yes when they are too little to do it themselves but there comes a point when they should be doing it themselves - just my 2 cents
grin.gif


I much prefer Dressage anyway
grin.gif
 
I know and 10 yearold girl whos ponies are always immaculate, they look like they have been proffesionaly produced i certainly thought so (and grumbled about it regularly with my friends) untill her father approached me about takeing the girl out on hacks, turned out the girl did all her ponies (3 of them) herself, her dad knew very little about ponies he only drove the trailer, her mum had taught the child very well before she ended up in and out of hospital and then bed bound for over a year! (real eye opener and changed my perceptions of the ponies and kids at shows)

so you would automaticly mark her down because her plaits look like an adult did them? for the fact that she knows how to plait well, knows how to turn her ponies out to a standard where they are mistaken for being proffesionaly produced? Non of her ponies cost the earth either, she is just talented but lacks the resourses to go to the big county shows as her father wont drive that far, should she not be allowed to compete at all untill her mother is well enough to take her to the county shows (which could be several years if ever)?

Just because the pony does not have golf ball plaits does not mean that the kid didnt do them.

I do believe in giving every small child a rosette but it should be relevent to how they did in the class not just because you feel sorry for them, special rosttes are wonderful things. Getting a special means the child has a rosette and something to aspire to (getting a placing)
 
I love specials. I don't do showing (except stuff like best mane) but for the last 5 years I have been gate steward for local showjumping. I like to have a pocket full of specials so I can give one people I think deserve a bit of a boost. The little kid at their first show, the kid who gets back on after a fall or who perseveres when the pony naps to the gate. Give them a special on the way out but alwats with a reason - "that's for getting back on", "for being kind to your pony when it was frightened", "for trying hard" or even "for the biggest smile I've seen today".
 
QR

My daughter knows how to get a special rosette. She giggles all the way through her trotting then breaks her peacock irons, then sobs, tries to take her hat off, and does an inpromtu 'round the world' in the line up (with mummy hissing "don't!!") (she's 3 BTW)

She doesnt want a red three tier rosette. A pink two tier one is much better..
 
At some of the shows I've been to the judge has simply asked the child what they have done to get the pony ready. Thay haven't had to guess. Some of the kids I know do a very professional job but I know 12 and 13 year olds whose parents plait for them!
 
totally agree conniegirl, specials are the best invention ever!

I hate stewarding kids though, I think it's brutal to have a child at the bottom of the lineup!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I know, I show at county level all the time - today was supposed to be a bit of fun for my daugher while she is 'between ponies'. Just maddening.

[/ QUOTE ]

Firstly, as a judge I would have split the class, and personally, the more correct rider would have been placed higher than those incorrectly turned out, I would then have spoken with the incorrectly turned out people to tell them where they went wrong.

BUT imho your daughter should have gone HC anyway if you show at county level all the time -sorry
 
Judging T&T is a complete nightmare. You get all sorts, and whatever you do will be "wrong" in someone's eyes.

The title of the class is usually "Best Turned Out", and therefore that's what I go for. If that's a 16yo who's mother had done all the work, so be it, however when you get up close it's often the DIYers that have the cleanest horses. If you start not to place people because they look professional, or they haven't done it themselves, people who are incorrectly turned out won't know what is correct, and what to aspire to. Having the person turned out the best in BTO eventually raises the standard of everyone in their effort to get higher placings.
 
QR - This thread has bought back so many memories. Although I've never had my own pony I was lucky enough growing up to be taken on by a couple of people who needed someone light enough to ride theirs.

One of these ponies was a 12.2hh, grey Welsh Sec A, 16 years old, fat as hell, pulled like a rugby team in a tug of war and would bite and kick anyone who didn't immediately bow to her magnificence.
crazy.gif
Her owner thought it'd be fun (ha!) for me to enter her in a local bto. All the prep in the world was never going to make her look smart - she lived out 24/7, had a very low trace clip, rolled in her poo ALL THE BLOODY TIME and refused to let anyone near her tail to wash it. Needless to say - we didn't come anywhere, but we really didn't deserve anything else. Well she didn't deserve anything else, I deserved a goddamn medal!

She was great at the local XC clear rounds though!
smile.gif


Anyway, all that aside, the btos we entered were all won by very smart ponies. I have no idea if the little darlings on their backs did the work on them or not. But it put me off for life, (That was cool, by the way; I didn't much enjoy getting bitten and kicked trying to make a vicious maniac look cute
mad.gif
) I knew that there was no way I would ever be able to match their standard, so I'm not sure how many people are encouraged to up their standards... just a thought
smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
QR

My daughter knows how to get a special rosette. She giggles all the way through her trotting then breaks her peacock irons, then sobs, tries to take her hat off, and does an inpromtu 'round the world' in the line up (with mummy hissing "don't!!") (she's 3 BTW)

She doesnt want a red three tier rosette. A pink two tier one is much better..

[/ QUOTE ]

i have heard of kiddies battling over 5TH place as they all want the PINK rosette LOL!!
 
[ QUOTE ]

One of these ponies was a 12.2hh, grey Welsh Sec A, 16 years old, fat as hell, pulled like a rugby team in a tug of war and would bite and kick anyone who didn't immediately bow to her magnificence.
crazy.gif
Her owner thought it'd be fun (ha!) for me to enter her in a local bto. All the prep in the world was never going to make her look smart - she lived out 24/7, had a very low trace clip, rolled in her poo ALL THE BLOODY TIME and refused to let anyone near her tail to wash it. Needless to say - we didn't come anywhere, but we really didn't deserve anything else. Well she didn't deserve anything else, I deserved a goddamn medal!


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you said it yourself, that even though you tried really hard, with a fat pony that pulled like a rugby team and wouldn't let you wash her tail, you were fighting an uphil battle! But you don't need an expensive pony to win BTO, when I was a child my mum bought a succession of "meat money" ponies to sell on in an attempt to make some cash, and we managed to win BTO sometimes. One grey pony rolled in his poo before a show, and squirted it all down his bum and legs at a show, but I was successful on him too.

People wouldn't exect to win a hunter class on a horse that can't canter, or a "prettiest mare" class with a fugly horse, so why so some expect to do well in BTO if they're not the best turned out? In an ideal world everyone would "do" the horse themselves, or it would be split into "show type" and "non show type" but those bring up their own problems.
 
Yes, absolutely. I totally see your point and I never resented not getting placed. However, I guess the point I wanted to make was that I *was* put off from showing because I knew I didn't have a hope against the other, smart ponies and thus not everyone is encouraged to do better by example.
smile.gif
 
As a slight aside from BTO, my major problem with local showing is not the kids who's parents do everything- though goodness only knows my Mother accompanied me to 4 shows in 9 years, and my father slightly more as driver and watcher by the ring with the crossword LOL

My issue is with the LR ponies, who are lunged and ridden by older sister for an hour in the trailer park before the 4 yr old gets plonked on. If it has to be ridden into the ground to behave, is it a first ridden pony?
 
[ QUOTE ]
At some of the shows I've been to the judge has simply asked the child what they have done to get the pony ready. Thay haven't had to guess. Some of the kids I know do a very professional job but I know 12 and 13 year olds whose parents plait for them!

[/ QUOTE ]

and the bog standard response to that question is 'yes i did everything' even if they didnt!
 
Surprisingly no! I think kids can be incredibly honest when asked a direct question. My friends a judge and asked this very question recently at a local pony club show and was given honest answers on what they had done and what they had been helped with.
 
well those are very honest kids, but you do get those who have been coached by thier mum to respond with a yes to that question.
It is a similar thing when they are asked the age of the pony in question, you dont honestly think all those ponies are 8 or 9 do you? a few honest kids will give you the proper age of thier ponies but some will not.
 
Well, it wasn't nearly as bad as I expected, which must have been rather unkind of me! (see above post re. PC Judging). We started on time, plenty of entries, good steward, very nice Mums, ring almost underwater, well-behaved little riders and ponies, nicely turned out, BUT just as I guessed - no specials. They had to pinch some from the Clear Round ring and we managed to make sure that everyone went home with a rosette. All in all, it wasn't a bad day, I was treated like Royalty (???!!!) but had to be towed off the field!

I did suggest that they should have more than 2 showing classes (!) - it makes my day more worthwhile if I can do 10 classes, rather than 2. I'd Judged a fortnight ago where there were 16 classes - fortunately, for me, some people went home when it started dragging on really late so the last few only had twos and threes in. There is a happy medium!

Please don't knock the Local Shows - they are the godsend for all those Mums with horse mad kids and very little money. They (usually) have reasonable horse-knowledge and dream of one day having a County Standard pony. I know, I was one of those kids a long time ago.

The chances of that ever happening are pretty slim - but it does, occasionally. About 6 years ago I judged a LR class at a local show and placed 1st a very decent pony with a good little rider in their first season at showing, and a Dad who was very keen to improve. He asked for and listened to my advice. Since then they have acquired better ponies, reasonably cheaply, and have gone on to qualify for all the big shows.

Yes, the Organisers sometimes need a kick up the backside, but where would we be without them? You just have to look back on it and put it down to experience.
 
YorkshireLass what you have said about judges looking for kids that have done it themselves etc has really pleased me, my 6yr old niece has done 2 Local shows so far, and done all the bathing and prep herself with minimal help/guidance from me, she even paints his hooves herself (que black hoof prints all over the yard still marked weeks later
smirk.gif
)
She puts him on and off the lorry herself aswell. Its obvious when we turn up the kids the do it themselves and those who are plonked and TBH look like they dont want to be there at all !! God knows what i'm going to do when she grows out of the shetland though, he is the perfect reachable height for her!!
 
firstly - what a shame your local show was a bit disorganised/you felt it was badly judged etc. Thats a shame.

I compete locally in the south east, have been doing so for over a year, i now know the riding clubs that a worth bothering with and the ones that arent, and i know the local shows that are great, average and naff. when i first started going to locals it was a learning experience - maybe you went to a bad local so perhaps you shouldn't tar them all with the same brush, not really fair - im sure some county/affiliated shows arent as good as the next one. Sorry i know your just ranting.

However, if your county level i don't really think you should be at a local level show anyway !!

shame that your local show wasn't well organised as it does let the side down a tad.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top